Forums > Sailing General

Gold Coast Seaway navigation with a yacht

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Created by David967 9 months ago, 7 Oct 2018
David967
15 posts
7 Oct 2018 5:58PM
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I was trying to find some information on the depth of the seaway around the GC. I can find the tide info, but for the life of me, I cannot find the depth of the channels at the lowest tide.
The boat I am looking at is in Victoria Point and has a keel of 1.6 m. I would have to navigate/motor down by Jacobs Well to the Spit and out to the Coral Sea. Has anyone here navigated these waters with a yacht at low tides or does anyone know the minimum depth around the area and what route to take? There are no working chart plotter on the boat, so I won't be able to measure the depth as we go. I will have to navigate by eye. Any help would be welcome.

lydia
881 posts
7 Oct 2018 6:51PM
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1.6 no problem , you are good to about 3.0m
Several ways to go.
Main Channel is fine.
At 1.6 even Caniapa channel is fine

Bananabender
QLD, 705 posts
7 Oct 2018 10:00PM
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If you have not already download Beacon to Beacon Southern Moreton Bay and Northern Gold Coast. No depths show but stick between channel markers and no issues.

garymalmgren
225 posts
7 Oct 2018 8:04PM
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There are no working chart plotter on the boat, so I won't be able to measure the depth as we go.

Err. David. People usually measure depth with a depth sounder/ fish finder.
I would suggest that you get a cheapo fish finder and at least a Garmin hand held GPS plotter before you set off.
A copy of Beacon To Beacon , a chart and a fish finder will at least get you down to the Spit safely.
The Spit varies from dead calm to no-go so get more info for that exit

gary

Jode5
QLD, 730 posts
8 Oct 2018 4:22AM
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Down load the Navionics app and follow the dotted line down the main channel and you will have no problems.

David967
15 posts
8 Oct 2018 5:25PM
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Select to expand quote
Jode5 said..
Down load the Navionics app and follow the dotted line down the main channel and you will have no problems.


I thought the Navionics app was mostly for referencing only and most people advise not to use it as a primary navigation aid. I think I downloaded last year into a Samsung tablet to try and it was sluggish to respond.

garymalmgren
225 posts
8 Oct 2018 6:08PM
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mostly for referencing only

Even if it is "only for reference", it is another tool to keep you safe and guide you on your way.
Use it and every other aid that is available.

most people advise not to use it as a primary navigation aid

In my experience (as a port engineer in Singapore) professional navigators use systems very similar to Navionics
as the principle form of navigation.
How many navigation officers on large commercial vessels do you think go out on the bridge and take a sextant sight?
The answer is NONE.
Modern GPS navigation tools have some bugs, but in a well traveled area like the Southport Spit they are dead on.

Gary

Dale Christopher
13 posts
14 Oct 2018 2:40PM
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One area I was warned about was the north east area of Woogoompah Island (almost dead east of Jacob's Well) there is a cardinal mark... I was told that some people get confused by the tonne of markers in this area and end up cutting over a bar there.
I drew some squiggles to show where not to go. Navionics helps a lot!

David967
15 posts
14 Oct 2018 6:37PM
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I did the auto routing on Navionics on the laptop and even on the recommended route there is some shallow areas to watch out for.




Dale Christopher
13 posts
17 Oct 2018 5:38PM
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I was following a big wooden tall ship down past horizon shores today haha! Not sure what his draft would have been but it looked cool.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1671 posts
18 Oct 2018 6:42AM
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Hi David, You'll be fine.
Every year there is a race from Southport Yacht Club to Manly called the Surf to City. There are two courses, one outside for the bigger boats, and one inside that winds up through the Broadwater past Jacobs Well popping out at McLeay Island for the drag race across Moreton Bay to the finish line. I had a 1.8 mtr keel on my old boat that has been through there more times than I could count and haven't run aground once navigating through there.
I have run aground lots racing through there, but this is because we're pushing out past the edges of the channel trying to fit in a tack or a gybe.
So the section you mention is where every year a lot of boats are racing with kites and gybing backwards and forwards down the channels.
the only weird bit is where Dale has already mentioned.
Its a beautiful trip, leave near full tide and sit back and enjoy it.
Word of advice: I wouldn't be taking any boat out into the coral sea till I've sussed the boat right out. I hope you have had ample time to crawl through the boat or at least a professional opinion. If you are not sure about the nav system and have no depth/sea temp readout, I'be be hesitant to venture offshore.
BTW, Navionics is not a bad app. Like any software don't stake your life on it and double check via other means, and run it on a good tablet with a GPS capability (ie: one with a sim card slot) . It is really accurate in the Broadwater from what I've seen.

Go and look up the Surf to City race (Southport Yacht Club) and download the sailing instructions for the the course map.

BlueMoon
614 posts
18 Oct 2018 6:43AM
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Hi Shaggy, do you know where the High tides meet between The Broadwater and Moreton Bay?,
im looking to work the tides for a trip through Southbound soon,
Tides...the best thing invented since Wind
cheers

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1671 posts
18 Oct 2018 9:19AM
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G'day BlueMoon,
Good question, I think it is close to the south of Mcleay Island mate, but that's gut instinct, not hard fact.
This is a run in tide in Moreton Bay to give you an idea of the northern influence at least, sorry I don't have one for the Broadwater.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1671 posts
18 Oct 2018 9:27AM
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And the corresponding one for the run out tide.....




nswsailor
NSW, 1235 posts
18 Oct 2018 10:25AM
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I think its at the large overhead wires Bluemoon

boty
QLD, 500 posts
18 Oct 2018 3:35PM
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shaggybaxter said..
G'day BlueMoon,
Good question, I think it is close to the south of Mcleay Island mate, but that's gut instinct, not hard fact.
This is a run in tide in Moreton Bay to give you an idea of the northern influence at least, sorry I don't have one for the Broadwater.



love this current chart shaggy where did you lift that from I have been looking for something with this much detail for ages

sirgallivant
NSW, 1425 posts
18 Oct 2018 5:18PM
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This subject is deadly serious and should not be talked about lightly. It seems like some people's eyes are clouded over by the popular trends and irresponsible blurbs of advertising we are bombarded by recently.

A word of advice to all who use navionics and other non officially - by the AHO or other countries responsible hydrographic offices - endorsed and recommended ENC or RNC programs,
you do it at your peril and it could affect your insurance claim
if you come to grief and must claim!

Dear garymalmgren, you, as an official of some reputation - as you state it in your post - should know better, that the ENC's the commercial ships use are all official AHO or BRITISH ADMIRALTY CHARTS or Singapore one's, nevertheless official charts based on raster or paper charts albeit in electronic form not ad hoc compilations of data released by more or less professional and more or less responsible private companies who are in this business for profit, and profit only no matter what they claim!
The truth of this matter is emphasized by the avaricious nature of those companies who's programs ought to be renewed yearly for a handful of money generating more and more profit for them.


This subject is a returning one, time and again, the users and advocates of the unofficial charting programs shout down all common sense and "win out" over sensible, prudent navigators who refuse to succumb to trends using unofficial navigation aids which are easily could cause serious injuries, loss of assets or even loss of life.
Like C-Map or MemoryMap both are official ENC's and RNC's respectively, recommended for navigation.

The navionic-like toys might be good weapons to entertain or make one feel important by supplying information to interested parties or use as an information platform for fotos, Marina data or such but not for navigating in treacherous waters or any waters.

Shaggy, you had a mishap near Green isl. not too long ago, if l remember correctly, which was caused by you navigating following the navionics ENC and came to grief.
Despite all that, you are recommending navionics which is beyond belief!?
"BTW, Navionics is not a bad app. " you wrote, ok, you state, that:
" Like any software don't stake your life on it and double check via other means, "
which means a paper chart or an officially, by the AHO, endorsed ENC or RNC which is a software
o n
w h i c h,
o n e
c a n
s t a k e
o n e' s
l i f e !

Why not using an officially endorsed product in the first place instead of gambling with a non official but popular toy instead is just bad seamanship.

David967, to obtain MemoryMap for your phone and or your tablet or laptop is US$ 50 for forewer, if l remember correctly. One must have it ready to use and it is recommended for navigation. Btw, it comes with Beacon to beacon, Qld.marineparks, and WA charts to boot.

To the people who are ready to pick up pen and remind me that the paper charts have mistakes too, l say, yes, but l still trust them and despise the rest.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1671 posts
18 Oct 2018 9:55PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
sirgallivant said..
This subject is deadly serious and should not be talked about lightly. It seems like some people's eyes are clouded over by the popular trends and irresponsible blurbs of advertising we are bombarded by recently.

A word of advice to all who use navionics and other non officially - by the AHO or other countries responsible hydrographic offices - endorsed and recommended ENC or RNC programs,
you do it at your peril and it could affect your insurance claim
if you come to grief and must claim!

Dear garymalmgren, you, as an official of some reputation - as you state it in your post - should know better, that the ENC's the commercial ships use are all official AHO or BRITISH ADMIRALTY CHARTS or Singapore one's, nevertheless official charts based on raster or paper charts albeit in electronic form not ad hoc compilations of data released by more or less professional and more or less responsible private companies who are in this business for profit, and profit only no matter what they claim!
The truth of this matter is emphasized by the avaricious nature of those companies who's programs ought to be renewed yearly for a handful of money generating more and more profit for them.


This subject is a returning one, time and again, the users and advocates of the unofficial charting programs shout down all common sense and "win out" over sensible, prudent navigators who refuse to succumb to trends using unofficial navigation aids which are easily could cause serious injuries, loss of assets or even loss of life.
Like C-Map or MemoryMap both are official ENC's and RNC's respectively, recommended for navigation.

The navionic-like toys might be good weapons to entertain or make one feel important by supplying information to interested parties or use as an information platform for fotos, Marina data or such but not for navigating in treacherous waters or any waters.

Shaggy, you had a mishap near Green isl. not too long ago, if l remember correctly, which was caused by you navigating following the navionics ENC and came to grief.
Despite all that, you are recommending navionics which is beyond belief!?
"BTW, Navionics is not a bad app. " you wrote, ok, you state, that:
" Like any software don't stake your life on it and double check via other means, "
which means a paper chart or an officially, by the AHO, endorsed ENC or RNC which is a software
o n
w h i c h,
o n e
c a n
s t a k e
o n e' s
l i f e !

Why not using an officially endorsed product in the first place instead of gambling with a non official but popular toy instead is just bad seamanship.

David967, to obtain MemoryMap for your phone and or your tablet or laptop is US$ 50 for forewer, if l remember correctly. One must have it ready to use and it is recommended for navigation. Btw, it comes with Beacon to beacon, Qld.marineparks, and WA charts to boot.

To the people who are ready to pick up pen and remind me that the paper charts have mistakes too, l say, yes, but l still trust them and despise the rest.



Shaggy, you had a mishap near Green isl. not too long ago, if l remember correctly, which was caused by you navigating following the navionics ENC and came to grief.
Despite all that, you are recommending navionics which is beyond belief!?

Utter rubbish. I didn't' recommend Navionics at all, I said he would be fine using it for the stated purpose of getting to the Spit. Did you fail to read the part where I cautioned venturing out into open water? .
No, I don't run Navionics, my crew do occassionallly on their own devices. I use the following:
-Paper charts in the chart table. Every new course marked up on paper, and if I'm sailing an area, that marked up paper charts are on board.
- Cmap as my primary software through Adrena.
- Isailor on an IPAD and Phone using Transas vector charts.
- Memory Map on the PC and the iPad.
No Navionics.

I do know several very experienced sailors that use Navionics as their personal nav tool, and they have no issue with it. At all. That doesn't mean they'd throw other software off a boat and load Navionics, but they use it on their own device as a simple tool. And they all have tens of thousands of sea miles more than I, are well known in the industry and truckloads smarter than me.
So to summarise;
I don't run Navionics,
I never have nor will own Navionics (because of the issues mentioned here previously;
but a lot of sailors that are impeccably credentialled do. So would you prefer I lie about passing on their collective experience and instead always offer my personal view to anyone seeking advice? And note I referred to its use in a heavily charted sheltered area that is mapped to an inch of its life (even in Navionics) , not as the primary bloody tool for all things.

"BTW, Navionics is not a bad app. " you wrote, ok, you state, that:
" Like any software don't stake your life on it and double check via other means, "
And?
Seriously SG, you must have sailed the area we're talking about? Its one of the most sheltered sailing areas on the entire East Coast for Gods sake. you could naviguess your way by blind luck. Or follow the myriad of boats going the same way. You could even bloody well hop off and wade ashore and ask someone before your boat would get into any trouble..
I admire most of your posts mate, but why not ask for clarification before flaming away at assumed shadows?

To the people who are ready to pick up pen and remind me that the paper charts have mistakes too, l say, yes, but l still trust them and despise the rest.

Agree absolutely.

Fair dinkum, was it a bad day at the office or something?

Seebreasy73
QLD, 325 posts
18 Oct 2018 10:47PM
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not to add to the fire sirgavillant, but aren't the MemoryMap services suspended indefinitely?

I have been using Garmin chartplotters for years without any issues, but I do constantly monitor the depth. Garmin bought Navionics, while Navionics was the heart of most chartplotters such Raymarine from the beginning.

I agree that sometimes we do rely on the technology too much, but it is an AID that is used by millions on the daily basis. I think you should always have both on board, because if your electronics stop working, the paper charts will not (long as they are fairly current versions).

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1671 posts
22 Oct 2018 1:17PM
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Select to expand quote
boty said..

shaggybaxter said..
G'day BlueMoon,
Good question, I think it is close to the south of Mcleay Island mate, but that's gut instinct, not hard fact.
This is a run in tide in Moreton Bay to give you an idea of the northern influence at least, sorry I don't have one for the Broadwater.




love this current chart shaggy where did you lift that from I have been looking for something with this much detail for ages


Sorry Boty, I missed this.
That set is from Drew Hutton Smith for the Etchells worlds, but the source looks to me like Tidetech. This little Bris company really seemed to have smashed this stuff. They do 3d contour mapping of the sea bottom, then via: software they "fill in" whatever tide height they want and generate the tidal flow pattern. Then they go out and compare the real world testing and apparently it is really accurate.
.
Really smart stuff, good on em. Expensive, but worth a month subscription for a big regatta or cruise I reckon
.

boty
QLD, 500 posts
23 Oct 2018 8:19AM
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Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..

boty said..


shaggybaxter said..
G'day BlueMoon,
Good question, I think it is close to the south of Mcleay Island mate, but that's gut instinct, not hard fact.
This is a run in tide in Moreton Bay to give you an idea of the northern influence at least, sorry I don't have one for the Broadwater.





love this current chart shaggy where did you lift that from I have been looking for something with this much detail for ages



Sorry Boty, I missed this.
That set is from Drew Hutton Smith for the Etchells worlds, but the source looks to me like Tidetech. This little Bris company really seemed to have smashed this stuff. They do 3d contour mapping of the sea bottom, then via: software they "fill in" whatever tide height they want and generate the tidal flow pattern. Then they go out and compare the real world testing and apparently it is really accurate.
.
Really smart stuff, good on em. Expensive, but worth a month subscription for a big regatta or cruise I reckon
.


wow j just had a look didn't even know this available so much detail I have had a small chart that mates at the qld hydraulics lab showed me but nothing like this

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1671 posts
23 Oct 2018 8:43AM
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Boty, I am hopefully about to get a whole set of tidal paper charts for Moreton Bay from 1993 that were created for the last time the Etchells world were held in Brisbane.
Aside from the fact this stuff is like sailing porn to me, they don't exist in the ether, so even more reason to preserve them.
In my spare time, I want to do a comparison between 1993 and current day just for the sheer fun of it, I want to see how much/if at all Moreton Bay has changed in the last 25 years.
It feels like Christmas at the moment, can't wait!

David967
15 posts
31 Oct 2018 5:42PM
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Things fell through last week, but I am hoping that the issues with the boat will be sorted in the next two weeks. The beacon to beacon is straight forward, but besides Moreton Bay, where do you sail on the Gold Coast?

Seebreasy73
QLD, 325 posts
1 Nov 2018 7:54AM
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Select to expand quote
David967 said..
Things fell through last week, but I am hoping that the issues with the boat will be sorted in the next two weeks. The beacon to beacon is straight forward, but besides Moreton Bay, where do you sail on the Gold Coast?


What do you mean by where do you sail on the GC?

BlueMoon
614 posts
1 Nov 2018 7:17AM
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Last week , working the tides (thanks to some fellow SB'ers) I sailed from Cape Moreton to the fuel wharf near at Southport with only using the outboard for less than 30minutes, a couple of minutes to anchor at Peel, then to go through the narrow cutback near Russel Is and near Jacobs Well, had one of the best sails I've had going Sth through Moreton Bay, so I'd say you can sail anywhere you like.
cheers

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1671 posts
1 Nov 2018 9:24AM
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Bluemoon,
I love sailing downthrough that way just to have a look at all the marine oddities that vaguely pass as boats. There is a bargey looking thing down there that over the years the guy has added a second sundeck out of aluminium siding that makes it lean ever-so precariously in even the vaguest cross wind !

David967
15 posts
1 Nov 2018 10:15AM
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sorry what I was to ask, where do you go for a day sail on the God Coast. It seems to get very busy with a lot of powerboats around.

Bananabender
QLD, 705 posts
1 Nov 2018 4:06PM
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David for your reference I today I went from Jacobs Well to Rat Isl.
Low tide was .63 metre at Jacobs Well at 0930 which was the time I departed JW .At no time did the depth sounder show less than 2 m , mainly 3+ The sounder is 25 cm below waterline. EXCEPT at the starboard ( green ) channel marker north of Couran Cove.See below I was there at 1030 ish .There seems to be a couple of sandbanks extending out and the depth sounder jumped between 5 and 1.5 after allowing for the the sounder below the waterline. Imay have been too close to the channel marker and it may be deeper a little further out ,I've never worried about it before.
Actually a 70foot ++ motor Cruiser tried twice at that point and temporarily got stuck . It's amazing what two huge motors can do
He pirouetted ,water flying everywhere and went back to wait for the incoming both times yet a 35 foot yacht motored through.



Arabella
5 posts
14 Jul 2019 1:10PM
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Hi knowledgable seafolk,
Tried to poke up through from the sea way to Jacobs Well yesterday and had some trouble getting through around the Jacobs Well Shoals - where the channel markers change from starboard to port.

We draw 2.1m. Would accessing Moreton Bay be possible throught the southern passages, or only right back out around all the islands?
Thanks!

Bananabender
QLD, 705 posts
14 Jul 2019 3:27PM
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Select to expand quote
Arabella said..
Hi knowledgable seafolk,
Tried to poke up through from the sea way to Jacobs Well yesterday and had some trouble getting through around the Jacobs Well Shoals - where the channel markers change from starboard to port.

We draw 2.1m. Would accessing Moreton Bay be possible throught the southern passages, or only right back out around all the islands?
Thanks!



Hi Arabella,
i am moored at Jacobs Well .
You should have no trouble if you keep in the channel
The channel markers do NOT change from Green on starboard from
the Seaway past Jacobs Well and through to Southern MB .
Are you referring to












Arabella
5 posts
Monday , 15 Jul 2019 10:48AM
Thumbs Up

Hi Bananabender,

100% where you've circled - at the western end where you "veer" slightly north between the starboard and port buoys. My apologies for my choice of terminology about the "change"
Ourselves and at least 1 other yacht touched bottom Saturday afternoon at approximately 4pm. We tried two lines in our attempt to get through. Tides should have been approx 1.0m incoming.

If we make it through this section on a high tide, how close will we be through the rest of the channels up to the Bay?



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"Gold Coast Seaway navigation with a yacht" started by David967