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Gravity holding tanks with TMC toliet.

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Created by southace 3 months ago, 12 Mar 2018
southace
QLD, 3596 posts
12 Mar 2018 7:52PM
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Well three years on after re-plumbing new electric toliet and holding tank finally she gave me the ****s! After back flushing with blue expensive useless chemicals the tank remains full when sea cock is open.

Today I removed the elbow I installed and as expected it was chocka block with stuff with just only a small hose size tunnel!

I was was going to order a new black box tank as I suspected it may of been full of a hard sludge but now the elbow is cleaned out all is running well. The suction hose I used which i was told I shouldn't ..had very little build up due to being a shiny rubber .....it was the pvc elbow that caused all the probs. grrrr what a poo day.







cisco
QLD, 10534 posts
12 Mar 2018 9:09PM
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Why do you have a holding tank??

The TMC electric unit has a built in macerator and as such is legal to discharge directly to sea outside of protected waters.

A porta potti or thunder bucket should suffice while in protected waters and can be emptied via the TMC electric when in open waters. It would save you a lot of headaches.

My mate had a holding tank he made from 100 mm pvc pipe with caps and joints etc and mounted under the cockpit coaming. He was in the cockpit locker one day and it had built up pressure and exploded on him covering him in the proverbial.

Not a pretty picture.

southace
QLD, 3596 posts
12 Mar 2018 9:30PM
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Why ? Because it's regulation and I don't swim in my own discharge. What sort of question is that Cisco where does your crap go?

Ramona
NSW, 4183 posts
13 Mar 2018 8:39AM
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I've just finished reading Peggie Hall's [the Headmistress] latest version of her book "Get Rid Of Boat Odors". This book covers everything you need to know about heads and holding tanks. The problem you had is a common one and the book explains it all in detail. I know very little about any of the systems but this book is a revelation. I would recommend this book to anyone who has to have an operational throne for partners and visitors.


www.ebay.com.au/itm/The-New-Get-Rid-of-Boat-Odors-by-Peggie-Hall-9781892399786-Paperback-2016/301934861191?epid=222389960&hash=item464cb85b87:g:OEUAAOSwttRZqVpN

cisco
QLD, 10534 posts
13 Mar 2018 8:54AM
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Select to expand quote
southace said..
Why ? Because it's regulation and I don't swim in my own discharge. What sort of question is that Cisco where does your crap go?



Try rereading my post.

Holding "tanks" are not regulation.

UncleBob
NSW, 243 posts
13 Mar 2018 1:05PM
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cisco said..

southace said..
Why ? Because it's regulation and I don't swim in my own discharge. What sort of question is that Cisco where does your crap go?




Try rereading my post.

Holding "tanks" are not regulation.


Exactly! Bucket and chuck it I say.

woko
NSW, 172 posts
13 Mar 2018 2:34PM
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Still gotta cart it around till your in a chuck it zone !

Yara
NSW, 695 posts
13 Mar 2018 4:37PM
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Don't think you can blame the material of the PVC elbow. Maybe the piping configuration? A bend is always better than an elbow. Sludge handling is my game, and we use PVC piping extensively. Mind you, that is the cheaper solution, and ABS or HDPE are better, but no significant difference in the pipe flow.

Bristolfashion
VIC, 350 posts
13 Mar 2018 4:41PM
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Yep, Cisco is right. In QLD you have to have a macerator if you have a fixed toilet, but a holding tank is not required. There are good maps of the no discharge zones on the web.

Tasmania is very clear and sensible on this. A macerator is required, the various no discharge zones clearly outlined and the legislation even makes it clear that urine only discharge is allowed anywhere.

Of course, common legislation across all states would be handy.

It is interesting to reflect that this is an area where pollies seem happy to make retrofitting requirements which can be tricky or impossible. I don't see them requiring every classic car to meet modern emissions and safety standards before you can drive them!

Cheers

Bristle

southace
QLD, 3596 posts
13 Mar 2018 4:42PM
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Im talking about a 12.8 meter liveaboard cruiser that is in a Marina or at anchor around remote pristine islands. I don't walk to toliet blocks and don't poop in a buckets.
Not talking little fixed keel yachts here.
A holding tank is a luxury I enjoy having but hate the maintance required to keep it in working order.
It was also handy on my 3 day annual slipping.
why do I need a holding tank? Well so I don't have to head out to unprotected waters just to use the ****ter.common sense really.

UncleBob
NSW, 243 posts
13 Mar 2018 6:56PM
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southace said..
Im talking about a 12.8 meter liveaboard cruiser that is in a Marina or at anchor around remote pristine islands. I don't walk to toliet blocks and don't poop in a buckets.
Not talking little fixed keel yachts here.
A holding tank is a luxury I enjoy having but hate the maintance required to keep it in working order.
It was also handy on my 3 day annual slipping.
why do I need a holding tank? Well so I don't have to head out to unprotected waters just to use the ****ter.common sense really.


Oh FFS stop being so damn logical, and ecologically responsible.

Stockie
NSW, 18 posts
13 Mar 2018 8:57PM
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Hi south ace,
im with you mate, I have the seacock closed unless I'm off shore, and I can see some fun trying to empty your porta potti in the toilet bowl at sea! I have had issues with the HT not emptying, this seams to happen in hot weather, I guess the stuff dries out. So I add some of the Green stuff from Therford straight into the tank via the pump out deck fitting and add adding a little water to help it reconstitute. My yachts got a level indicator and sometimes even that seizes up and reads full when empty, but a good water flush helps and the green stuff breaks it all down, and deodorises too!
Do you have smells?
That hose should be sanitary grade to resist smell permeating through!
cheers Richard

cisco
QLD, 10534 posts
13 Mar 2018 9:47PM
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southace said..
why do I need a holding tank? Well so I don't have to head out to unprotected waters just to use the ****ter.common sense really.


Not common sense really.

You are either too lazy or too snobbish to walk up to the marina toilet block.

You say "A holding tank is a luxury I enjoy having but hate the maintance required to keep it in working order.".

So what do you do when you have been in the marina for a while and the tank gets full?? Does your berth have a pump out point or do you have to move the boat to a pump out point?

You also say that your tank is a gravity dump system, so do you especially go out to open waters to dump it or do you wait till a tide change in the night and dump it at the marina?

You may need to add some more heavy equipment such as a pump out system to your already overloaded yacht.

You enjoy the luxury of the holding tank but hate the required maintenance. In case you haven't realised yet, the one goes with the other. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That is basic first year high school physics.

Why do you not accept the responsibility of your choices and stop complaining about them on the forum??

southace
QLD, 3596 posts
13 Mar 2018 10:13PM
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I'm extremely happy with the modification and improvments I have done to my previous 37 footer and now my new 42 footer.
Both yachts came with a hand Jabsco direct line pump out loo.
Both yachts I converted to the TMC macerating loo and the gravity dump holding tank.

Im just trying to share my knowlage and experiences as I was thought to believe that's what public forums are about.
Seems some just like to knit pick people's posts and if there grammar is not up to scratch lookout!

Im actualy re-sealing Windows this week and getting the decks painted as it's nice and sunny and dry.
How's your windows going Cisco is it still raining up your way?

Crusoe
QLD, 791 posts
14 Mar 2018 5:45AM
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Thanks for sharing SouthAce. Makes me glad I installed a Sealand 4800 Series VacuFlush Marine Toilet and ran it on fresh water. No smell and no problems. (touch wood)

Ramona
NSW, 4183 posts
14 Mar 2018 8:18AM
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I have loaned my copy of Peggy Hall's book but some points from it might be worth mentioning here. I should add again I know very little about marine heads and have not had much luck with them. I bought a macerator unit about 2 years ago and it's still sitting in the same spot downstairs!
The book is about holding tanks, manual, electric, and macerator toilets and covers raw water, fresh water and pressure fresh water systems. The points she makes is to maintain the systems. Replace the joker valve every 12 months. Never add any chemicals to holding tanks. Keep the vent serviced. Replace the macerator blades every 12 months. The big problem it seems is people with holding tanks do not pump long enough or if using an electric pump or a macerator run the pump long enough. They worry they may put too much water into the holding tank. Closing the intake valve then poring a cup of fresh water from the sink into the bowl and pumping that through.

madmission
VIC, 200 posts
14 Mar 2018 9:14AM
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This is a bit off topic but
After using both a lavac and a TMC macerating heads i am with crusoe the vacuum work well and with the maintenance issues ramona outlined for me its a no brainer so was pleasantly surprised to come across a description of an economic conversion in Jude Binders Book on practical tips.
"Our head is a homebuilt Lavac operated by a Henderson Mk IV bilge pump."
see www.jackandjude.com for complete description.

Back to the **** fight




cisco
QLD, 10534 posts
14 Mar 2018 8:28AM
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southace said..
How's your windows going Cisco is it still raining up your way?


Rain is still sporadic and hopefull TC Linda will track SE as predicted.

My stbd side 3.5 metre long internal timber window frame went back in the boat yesterday with 4 coats of Bondall Marine Varnish on it. It is a very good product and about half the price of everything else.

www.productreview.com.au/p/bondall-monocel-gold-marine-grade-clear-timber-varnish/m/clear-timber-varnish.html

southace
QLD, 3596 posts
14 Mar 2018 8:34AM
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cisco said..


southace said..
How's your windows going Cisco is it still raining up your way?




Rain is still sporadic and hopefull TC Linda will track SE as predicted.

My stbd side 3.5 metre long internal timber window frame went back in the boat yesterday with 4 coats of Bondall Marine Varnish on it. It is a very good product and about half the price of everything else.

www.productreview.com.au/p/bondall-monocel-gold-marine-grade-clear-timber-varnish/m/clear-timber-varnish.html



Why would you varnish! Yuk
Windows are easy enough to do in the water you seem to like wasting time and money on hardstanding.

cisco
QLD, 10534 posts
14 Mar 2018 9:10PM
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southace said..
Why would you varnish! Yuk



Why would I varnish? Because it is internal and varnishing the attractive timber joinery creates a warm feeling to the interior of the cabin.

You used an apostrophie instead of a question mark at the end of your question.

You say:- "Windows are easy enough to do in the water you seem to like wasting time and money on hard standing."

Yes I suppose it would be easy enough to remove the windows and the 3,5 metre long timber frames to shore by dinghy, transport them home with the back seat of my car folded down and still have some of the frame projecting from the boot of my car in order to sand them back to bare timber and coat them with Everdure and then give them 4 coats of varnish with 24 hours between coats to ensure proper curing.

At $135 per week here, as opposed to your $170 per day where you are, I find it a luxury that I am quiet happy to pay for. The yard is only 5 mins from home. I tend to travel between home and the yard a few times a day to get this and that.

Besides all that, it is my money and I will blow it in whichever manner I choose. That is the purpose of money.

Next question??

woko
NSW, 172 posts
14 Mar 2018 10:57PM
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I'm glad to see the TMC and gravity tank are going ok. I've got all the gear ready for the same job

cisco
QLD, 10534 posts
14 Mar 2018 10:20PM
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Holding tanks are not specified in the legislation.

What IS specified is containment of human bodily waste until it can be disposed of in open waters or at an onshore disposal point.

Ten litre plastic buckets with clip lids more than adequately fulfill the requirements.

Bristolfashion
VIC, 350 posts
15 Mar 2018 8:06AM
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To be horribly picky, a containment device is not specified in the legislation. Obviously it's a good idea. What you decide upon depends on how much time you spend in no discharge waters and what other facilities are available.

Cheers

Bristol

Ramona
NSW, 4183 posts
15 Mar 2018 8:26AM
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madmission said..
This is a bit off topic but
After using both a lavac and a TMC macerating heads i am with crusoe the vacuum work well and with the maintenance issues ramona outlined for me its a no brainer so was pleasantly surprised to come across a description of an economic conversion in Jude Binders Book on practical tips.
"Our head is a homebuilt Lavac operated by a Henderson Mk IV bilge pump."
see www.jackandjude.com for complete description.

Back to the **** fight





I think they are Mk V pumps but that's just nitpicking! Mate has the same set up in his Cole 42. The give away is the rubber seals on the lid. The same maintenance issues are still there though and the joker valve in this case is on the outlet of the Henderson pump. I have a kit coming in the mail but when I was sailing last Saturday I pulled down my Henderson pump. The joker valve has gone very stiff and I'm sure that's the only thing wrong with it.

D3
WA, 57 posts
18 Mar 2018 7:18AM
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How big is your holding tank? I'm trying to figure out what sort of 'endurance' various size tanks will provide.

Ramona
NSW, 4183 posts
19 Mar 2018 6:46PM
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D3 said..
How big is your holding tank? I'm trying to figure out what sort of 'endurance' various size tanks will provide.


I would suggest reading this first before you spend any money.




southace
QLD, 3596 posts
20 Mar 2018 3:11AM
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My holding tank is approx 100 litres and last around 2 weeks before needing to be emptied, the only time I experience any smell is when it's close to being full and I get the occasional wiff from the outside breather.

i really couldn't go without a holding tank within the waters I frequent hence why I have fitted the same very simple system to both my previous and present yachts.

It amazes me when I see yachts with raw hand pump Jabsco toilets etc....must impress the women while your cooking a BBQ as a nice fresh turd floats past .

Jode5
QLD, 589 posts
27 Mar 2018 8:36PM
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southace said..
My holding tank is approx 100 litres and last around 2 weeks before needing to be emptied, the only time I experience any smell is when it's close to being full and I get the occasional wiff from the outside breather.

i really couldn't go without a holding tank within the waters I frequent hence why I have fitted the same very simple system to both my previous and present yachts.

It amazes me when I see yachts with raw hand pump Jabsco toilets etc....must impress the women while your cooking a BBQ as a nice fresh turd floats past .


I was down at the Port Lincoln marina today and saw Icon sitting there. Definitely no smell.

southace
QLD, 3596 posts
27 Mar 2018 9:24PM
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Select to expand quote
Jode5 said..

southace said..
My holding tank is approx 100 litres and last around 2 weeks before needing to be emptied, the only time I experience any smell is when it's close to being full and I get the occasional wiff from the outside breather.

i really couldn't go without a holding tank within the waters I frequent hence why I have fitted the same very simple system to both my previous and present yachts.

It amazes me when I see yachts with raw hand pump Jabsco toilets etc....must impress the women while your cooking a BBQ as a nice fresh turd floats past .



I was down at the Port Lincoln marina today and saw Icon sitting there. Definitely no smell.


I was waxing a Riv about 4 boats down ... Are you staying for the car race at Easter?

SailMark
QLD, 42 posts
27 Mar 2018 10:59PM
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cisco said..
Holding tanks are not specified in the legislation.

What IS specified is containment of human bodily waste until it can be disposed of in open waters or at an onshore disposal point.

Ten litre plastic buckets with clip lids more than adequately fulfill the requirements.


If you secure a few ten litre buckets over each side all your female and family friends can enjoy more form stability(pleasepunctuateatyourpleasure)

Agent nods
QLD, 518 posts
28 Mar 2018 2:55AM
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looking at overseas cruising forums, there is a lot of support for composting toilets.

Next to no smell, no moving parts (just a small computer sized fan), very little ongoing maintenance, no chance of a pressurized malfunction, or clearing a very unpalatable blockage.

Waste can just be eventually disposed of in normal rubbish etc. Plus one less skin fitting required.



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"Gravity holding tanks with TMC toliet." started by southace