Hi everyone,

I am currently searching to buy a used sailboat 30-40 ft. I live on the Gold Coast QLD and when I have purchased the vessel will need to get it insured so that I can berth it at a marina. Due to my budget, I can only afford 30-40k and i would like to liveaboard. I see online that it is quite difficult to get insurance on an older boat. Does anybody have any tip regarding this?

How old would the boat you are planning on buying be? New Wave Marine should be able to assist but they will confirm. They insure our 1985 yacht with no hassles, no survey, at a good value cost but the cover is for market value of each component in their listing.

newwavemarine.com.au/

Seems like this forum needs a special sub-folder for insurance as it seems to come up around once per week or more.

Or maybe the "search" button needs to be positioned more prominently.

Thanks heaps for the prompt replies, I did use the search function but was just asking about a newly purchased boat, I would like to be able to ensure it could be insured before purchasing boat. I was worried that I would not get insurance and be stuck with no where to put it while I go away to work for a month.
I will be sure you used the Search feature more in future.

Charriot said..
Insuring the boat is one thing, insuring in qld is very different again, insuring older boat from Rockhampton further north is quite impossible.
my suggestion, to limit more troubles, to buy the boat with survey

Buying the boat with a survey will only be a good move if the survey is a positive one. But for that money surely the buyer would have a survey done anyway? If the survey is good then he buys the boat and gets insurance, if not there's no need for insurance anyway!

I was just looking at the New Wave Marine for insurance, it really does look straight forward as long as I have a survey, even if it was for swing mooring. I will Thanks for the link.

bronto13 said..
Hi, another question I couldn't find in the Search feature. How do you know if a yacht has been built by a professional boat builder? Its a question when applying for insurance. There is a yacht that I was looking at which had the designer as one thing and then Built By as a name with town and state.

If your looking at Swansons, very few are factory builds. 32 and up well over 50% are hull and deck kits and a lot are built from hired out molds.

Just wanted to note that I spent a whole day on the blower and email attempting to insure a 22' ~1975 built fixed keel swing moored yacht for just 3rd party property, based only on photos taken from the dock and on board when the yacht was floating, and my description of the condition - nothing more. The previous insurers of the boat (the insurance of which was also 3rd party only) declined which was a big surprise, and threw me into a total tailspin and minor panic. So I went through insurers who I thought could be agreeable to the request, and came up with around half a dozen declines - obviously I cannot name these here. Trident Marine Insurance came to the party and the gentleman I dealt with was absolutely top shelf, no mucking around, straight to the point. So I wanted to post this as am sure many others will need similar insurance. Obviously this does not mean that they will come to the party for all and every situation - I provided many photos of external and internal condition including keel bolts and keel floors, rig, outboard etc...............but I would expect that if you need similar such insurance and can provide suitable evidence of a sound yacht, even if a tad faded around the edges, then you will save a lot of time and aggravation by contacting Trident first.

Donk107 said..
I had our 1984 28 foot glass Sailmaster 845 on a swing mooring in Tassie insured with Trident for about 3 years with no claims and one day I received a letter saying they no longer would insure the boat

How good your Insurance company is is normally determined when you need to make a claim

I would also be wary of any insurance company who is prepared to offer a policy without a survey and if you have a insurance company in mind make sure that the surveyor you use is approved by them

Regards Don

Spot on.
I worked in insurance as a consultant. It is primarily a scam and the ways they avoid claims is sure to amaze.
The proof of any insurance is when you claim. Cheap premiums and ease of getting it can only lead to one conclusion, you will struggle to get a claim paid to your satisfaction.
Unfortunately, insurance is necessary for most boat owners who use marinas etc. Morning Bird was with Pantaenius, they were good and have a good payout record.
There was a disputed Pantaenius claim in WA some years ago which got a bit of publicity. Having seen the evidence the owner lied in telling the insurer the rig had been replaced. Only the forestay had. The insurer didn't pay when the rig went over.

bronto13 said..
Thanks for the replies, I was always planning on getting a survey done before purchasing.

Good move. If the boat comes up good in the survey, you'll have confidence in your boat and you'll find it easier to get insurance. If the boat comes up bad, you can walk away. You would have lost the cost of a survey, say $1000 for the slipping and surveyor, half a day if you're present at the time (which would have taught you a thing or two, anyway), but nothing more.

r13 said..
Thanks guys.

As per the post I entered it to attempt to assist small yacht buyers and owners. I am talking about 3rd party property insurance only. So all the input is great. Most inputs will add to the files of the "Cybil Fawlty Mastermind Special Subject being the Bleeding Obvious".

So thanks again.

If I wanted to enter into comprehensive insurance I obviously would use a surveyor approved by the insurer, and the boat would have to be slipped.

I am not going to lie about the rigging age of the 22' yacht.

I am holding paper relevant to my 3rd party property insurance and will rely on it if I need to. If someone attempts to scam me I will go to the Office of Fair Trading - I am not expecting anyone to scam me and won't comment anymore on the above text of this notion.

I fully agree that insurance is a pain. Again I was simply attempting to document excellent service provided to me. So there is no need for anyone to come back with comments which are not associated with the original posting scope which is 3rd party property.

Thanks again.

que ?

Ramona said..
I don't understand how any survey has got anything to do with 3rd party insurance. Your boat is not covered. It's to cover damage to other peoples property!

Hi Ramona

In theory a boat could have a issue that a survey may have uncovered that could cause the boat to catch fire in a marina full of expensive boats and destroy them
Would 3rd party property insurance cover the cost of the damage to the marina and the other boats that were destroyed
it would be an interesting scenario

Regards Don

Bundeenabuoy said..

MorningBird said..

Donk107 said..
I had our 1984 28 foot glass Sailmaster 845 on a swing mooring in Tassie insured with Trident for about 3 years with no claims and one day I received a letter saying they no longer would insure the boat

How good your Insurance company is is normally determined when you need to make a claim

I would also be wary of any insurance company who is prepared to offer a policy without a survey and if you have a insurance company in mind make sure that the surveyor you use is approved by them

Regards Don

Spot on.
I worked in insurance as a consultant. It is primarily a scam and the ways they avoid claims is sure to amaze.
The proof of any insurance is when you claim. Cheap premiums and ease of getting it can only lead to one conclusion, you will struggle to get a claim paid to your satisfaction.
Unfortunately, insurance is necessary for most boat owners who use marinas etc. Morning Bird was with Pantaenius, they were good and have a good payout record.
There was a disputed Pantaenius claim in WA some years ago which got a bit of publicity. Having seen the evidence the owner lied in telling the insurer the rig had been replaced. Only the forestay had. The insurer didn't pay when the rig went over.

Hi MorningBird,
Good to see your posting again

I saw that the trolls seem to have gone quiet and the focus is on sailing and yachts.
Although I've sold Morning Bird I am still interested in sailing and boats.

Jolene said..

Donk107 said..

Ramona said..
I don't understand how any survey has got anything to do with 3rd party insurance. Your boat is not covered. It's to cover damage to other peoples property!

Hi Ramona

In theory a boat could have a issue that a survey may have uncovered that could cause the boat to catch fire in a marina full of expensive boats and destroy them
Would 3rd party property insurance cover the cost of the damage to the marina and the other boats that were destroyed
it would be an interesting scenario

Regards Don

I agree, it's the same sort of thing with old vehicles on the road.

In NSW we have annual vehicle survey. And as such most of the ** boxes look ok and are ok. But do you really want to extend this annual check up to your pride and joy ?

I am with a company called Resillium. Only 3rd party as no one wants to insure an 80 year old timber boat. Last renewal they have a new underwriter. Fees went up about 60%. Then they wanted an out of water survey. Most annoying as boat out of water three weeks beforehand. They were OK with a shipwright which is lucky as shipwright attended. However, I complained and they waived the need for survey. I did have to provide 6 recent photos, inside and out, of the boat. Although rates have gone up I am covered for racing which previous would not cover. I don't race per se, (tacking 3 tons of 22" boat in a fleet start is a nightmare, its not my old Fireball! LOL))... but do like to participate in Old Gaffers events. Even finding an insurance company to cover 3rd party was tricky till I found Resillium. Pantaneus (sp?) were good too but a high residual.

No insurance, no go, in any marina. Fair enough.

Donk107 said..

Ramona said..
I don't understand how any survey has got anything to do with 3rd party insurance. Your boat is not covered. It's to cover damage to other peoples property!

Hi Ramona

In theory a boat could have a issue that a survey may have uncovered that could cause the boat to catch fire in a marina full of expensive boats and destroy them
Would 3rd party property insurance cover the cost of the damage to the marina and the other boats that were destroyed
it would be an interesting scenario

Regards Don

Years ago when my fishing vessel was tied up to a public wharf the local council wanted me to take out 3rd party insurance for the wharf. I assured them that was not going to happen. The wharf was already covered for public liability and 3rd party by the council.
When I put my yacht up on the council owned slip I have to have 3rd party insurance. As soon as the weight comes on the slip the council is responsible for public liability etc.