Hello, I have recently taken up sailing crewing with an experienced sailor. Today I asked what I thought was a sensible question... I asked if there is a standard distance recommended to ensure you don't run into whatever the marker is warning you about. IE one Northern Marker standing alone means keep to the north of it... obviously at some stage it is safe to head south so I wanted to know if there is a standard distance at which point it is safe or some sort of indicator... when I asked the question I was made to feel foolish, he said just keep north of the mark, I said I know that but if I want to head south at some stage I obviously can't do it immediately so there must be some sort of guideline, his response was to ask if I had been drinking and the best answer he could give me was to use common sense! He said how do they know how big a sand bar is? One day it could be 10 feet the next 30... He was getting annoyed with me which pissed me off and I really don't want to go sailing with him again. My thinking is that if there was a large stretch of unsafe waters they would probably have more than one marker and so there would have to be a standard distance at which a second marker would be required... I have dabbled in a lot of things, I had a students pilot's licence many years ago, scuba dived a little, paragliding, dabbled in engineering, built a food van... etc, they all have exact standards to follow or buffers etc, ie a passenger is considered one person in a plane but 75kgs is the standard weight (I think - it's been a while), so I would expect the same applies to the boating industry and although common sense should always be applied can anyone give me their understanding on this matter? Many Thanks.

Next time you're at the helm, drive the boat a few meters away from the mark and see what he says :-). My other world is filled with instructors. I/we judge them all the time. Most of them have no natural teaching talent, so it's difficult to learn etc. Out of all the ones I know, only one has the special gift to teach and teach well. But he's also a school teacher in real life. "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask" as they say. Lots of empathy required to teach. It's aggravating when something like that happens.

The way he responded to your question shows he has no idea himself, he would have come out looking a lot better had he taken the time to explain why the mark is there. Charriot explained it well by stating that charts are what you navigate with. The marker is there so that you have a good look at your charts so you can see what obstacle to avoid. By looking at charts it is implied that you will be looking at an official paper chart rather than a electronic chart on a plotter. Had Vestas Wind bothered to look at a paper chart rather than rely on the plotter chart they may have taken more notice of the imminent danger they were heading towards on the Cargados Carajos Shoals.

Im not having a posting battle with you Loose change! Sorry about that....hmmm I should just go sailing! Soon!

DeanSailing said..
Hello, I have recently taken up sailing crewing with an experienced sailor. Today I asked what I thought was a sensible question... I asked if there is a standard distance recommended to ensure you don't run into whatever the marker is warning you about. IE one Northern Marker standing alone means keep to the north of it... obviously at some stage it is safe to head south so I wanted to know if there is a standard distance at which point it is safe or some sort of indicator... when I asked the question I was made to feel foolish, he said just keep north of the mark, I said I know that but if I want to head south at some stage I obviously can't do it immediately so there must be some sort of guideline, his response was to ask if I had been drinking and the best answer he could give me was to use common sense! He said how do they know how big a sand bar is? One day it could be 10 feet the next 30... He was getting annoyed with me which pissed me off and I really don't want to go sailing with him again. My thinking is that if there was a large stretch of unsafe waters they would probably have more than one marker and so there would have to be a standard distance at which a second marker would be required... I have dabbled in a lot of things, I had a students pilot's licence many years ago, scuba dived a little, paragliding, dabbled in engineering, built a food van... etc, they all have exact standards to follow or buffers etc, ie a passenger is considered one person in a plane but 75kgs is the standard weight (I think - it's been a while), so I would expect the same applies to the boating industry and although common sense should always be applied can anyone give me their understanding on this matter? Many Thanks.

Many thanks to everyone who responded and I only wish my 'instructor' answered in that way - that makes perfect sense... the marker is a warning to stay on a particular side of a hazard that is documented electronically or on a paper chart and the person in charge (or someone appointed) has a responsibility to refer to that document in order to know when it's safe to pass. I knew there would be some sort of standard practice to follow. Thanks again and I hope everyone enjoys their Christmas and summer. Dean.

DeanSailing said..

Many thanks to everyone who responded and I only wish my 'instructor' answered in that way - that makes perfect sense... the marker is a warning to stay on a particular side of a hazard that is documented electronically or on a paper chart and the person in charge (or someone appointed) has a responsibility to refer to that document in order to know when it's safe to pass. I knew there would be some sort of standard practice to follow. Thanks again and I hope everyone enjoys their Christmas and summer. Dean.

Dean, go and enjoy your sailing and don't be put off by what happened, keep sailing with that skipper and if you have any other questions, don't ask him but rather someone you might feel more comfortable with.

LooseChange said..

DeanSailing said..

Many thanks to everyone who responded and I only wish my 'instructor' answered in that way - that makes perfect sense... the marker is a warning to stay on a particular side of a hazard that is documented electronically or on a paper chart and the person in charge (or someone appointed) has a responsibility to refer to that document in order to know when it's safe to pass. I knew there would be some sort of standard practice to follow. Thanks again and I hope everyone enjoys their Christmas and summer. Dean.

Dean, go and enjoy your sailing and don't be put off by what happened, keep sailing with that skipper and if you have any other questions, don't ask him but rather someone you might feel more comfortable with.

I was going to say that!

I think he's over come that anyways by the last thank you post! I wont reinforce it now!
It just shows that we never stop learning and there's never a reason not to question something you would like to learn!

How easy is navigation, you see buoys and markers.
Here around Keppels we have a dozen islands, everyone of them
has a dangerous rocky reef. Not a single buoy or marker.
But white buoys ..marine park..no anchorage..plenty.

Your knowledge of our local quiet area is scary.
"shark" just lost second application for Casino on GKI.
Until a licence is granted, we can enjoy place full of hippy sailors.
well, thanks to them we at least ones a week nice rescue.

G'Day DeanSailing, I'm new to site ,first post actually, but did a lot of ocean and around the cans racing.
To get the most fun out of crewing ,sailing,I suggest you may like to get hold of a book by Jeff Toghill called Coastal Navigation.
Its cheap,easy to read and explains the basics.
These days everyone relies on GPS etc.etc . and I would not be surprised if a lot of skippers had no idea how to manually navigate or read a chart.

G'day southace,
Thanks for the welcome. I was not suggesting thatDeanSailing would be able to plot a course or get a fix and am sorry if I gave that impression.
I just feel a little knowledge such as knowledge of markers and how to read a chart makes things more interesting. I accept that if all the batteries go flat everyone gets lost these days and am amazed at the directories you can buy at the newsagent to sail around the local bays etc.
I was taught coastal and celestial navigation by a submariner at RMIT in melbourne and ocean raced when technology was banned ,excepting radio but I still find the toghill book a good simple refresher

I