Leak seal material

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Donk107
Donk107
TAS
2446 posts
TAS, 2446 posts
17 Jan 2014 8:19am
Saw this on another forum

www.stayafloatmarine.com/usa/id2.html
http://www.spillcontrolsystems.com.au/products/Stay-Afloat-198g-Tub-Plug-%26-Leak-Sealant.html

And wondering if anyone has used it or has any thoughts on it

Regards Don

BobFord
BobFord
QLD
92 posts
QLD, 92 posts
17 Jan 2014 7:46pm
Agree on the Epoxy putty. Used it on aluminium hull , now 2 years old and seems good as gold
SandS
SandS
VIC
5904 posts
VIC, 5904 posts
17 Jan 2014 10:07pm


+ 3 for knead it good stuff !!!!!
Karsten
Karsten
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
18 Jan 2014 4:41pm

Don ,that stuff looks quite good - the Stayafloat putty.

I haven't used it but it seems very different to Epoxy putties like KneadIt which I have used:

- Its a "bulk" putty for large holes and crevices (you would need at least 8 epoxy sticks to make up the same volume)
- Does not go hard like epoxy (so you can easily remove it after the emergency)
- Can be used instantly (to mix 8 whole epoxy sticks would take me more than 10 minutes; a lot of water can flow in that time)
- Easy to mix with wood or other materials to bulk up the putty

I'm so impressed I'll be trying to get some. For small holes etc. epoxy putty would work fine, but for bigger gashes and tears this stuff this looks real good to me.

Did you see it for sale in Australia somewhere?






MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
18 Jan 2014 7:15pm
Stay Afloat is what I need. The idea of mixing a quantity of epoxy while the water is pouring in isn't my idea of fun.

14 oz Stay Afloat $US22.99 at West Marine. 7 oz $US10.99. There are distributors here so I have emailed them. I'm off to the US next month, if the Oz distributors aren't forthcoming I bring some home in my checked luggage. The airlines will probably think it is explosive putty!!
Karsten
Karsten
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
18 Jan 2014 8:32pm

Morningbird, would much appreciate it if could post how you go with the local distributor.
Donk107
Donk107
TAS
2446 posts
TAS, 2446 posts
18 Jan 2014 9:33pm
Karsten said..


Don ,that stuff looks quite good - the Stayafloat putty.

I haven't used it but it seems very different to Epoxy putties like KneadIt which I have used:

- Its a "bulk" putty for large holes and crevices (you would need at least 8 epoxy sticks to make up the same volume)
- Does not go hard like epoxy (so you can easily remove it after the emergency)
- Can be used instantly (to mix 8 whole epoxy sticks would take me more than 10 minutes; a lot of water can flow in that time)
- Easy to mix with wood or other materials to bulk up the putty

I'm so impressed I'll be trying to get some. For small holes etc. epoxy putty would work fine, but for bigger gashes and tears this stuff this looks real good to me.

Did you see it for sale in Australia somewhere?








Hi Karsten

This company are in Australia

http://www.spillcontrolsystems.com.au/products/Stay-Afloat-198g-Tub-Plug-%26-Leak-Sealant.html

Regards Don
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
18 Jan 2014 10:12pm
Will do Karsten. I have just had a leak from my stern tube which this would have been ideal for. It wouldn't prevent the rebuilding of my shaft arrangements, but it would have solved my immediate problem.
SandS
SandS
VIC
5904 posts
VIC, 5904 posts
18 Jan 2014 11:13pm

That does look like handy stuff !!!!!!
nswsailor
nswsailor
NSW
1458 posts
NSW, 1458 posts
18 Jan 2014 11:44pm
No need to use the expensive stuff, just any old builders expansion foam from Bunnings will do the job.

We had an old trawler with extensive leaking problems [like need to fix right now!]
and they just used the foam anywhere they could see water coming in.

When the boat was craned out it had foam expanding out all over the place from between the planks, but it did stop the leaks!!!
I think the owner was shocked at the amount of foam hanging outside the boat!

Gotta smile at the quick thinking
Karsten
Karsten
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
19 Jan 2014 1:02am
Just to clarify, this Stay Afloat putty is aimed at low pressure leaks (well illustrated by the the video's) at the level of the waterline.

If you've got a hole three feet below the waterline where the water is at considerably higher pressure, you should not expect this stuff to work a miracle. You'll have to back it up with something wrapped over it (eg. if stern tube) or a piece of plywood to hold it down.

Would be interesting to do an experiment with a garden hose - block it off with this stuff, then open the tap slowly and see at what point it blows out.

Since its not mixed and doesn't harden, it appears to be reusable.

Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
19 Jan 2014 9:37am
If you have a large hole, 2 inches or so below the water line the only way to repair would be a solid patch screwed to the hull or a sail pulled over the hole.

Years ago after I tied back up at the wharf in my fishing vessel I was down in the engine room shutting off the batteries and could hear running water. I chased it down to the stem where some packing had come out and water was running in at several gallons a minute about 2 feet below the waterline. Launched the dinghy and I sat in it kneading up Knead it and passing it down to one of my deckhands who forced it into place with a wedge. Next time we slipped we could not dig it out, its still there.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
19 Jan 2014 4:39pm
I had a sea cock come off in my hand on my Duncanson 26. Luckily it happened on the mooring after a very boisterous sail off Sydney heads.
The water was not coming in any faster than what was shown in the video of the Stay Afloat putty. If a leak is fully below the water line, as it was with my skin fitting and with the leak I have just had (which was much smaller, less than 0.5cm), based on the video this stuff will stop it or slow it down. It is irrelevant whether aleak is a foot below the water line or 18", the pressure will be the same.
The example in the video of using it on the stern tube or in the skin fitting holes was very impressive. Admittedly they weren't very heavy boats but big enough to demonstrate the use of the stuff.
In Ramona's example, this stuff pushed into the gap from the outside probably would have had the same affect of stopping the leak without having to pre mix it.
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
19 Jan 2014 7:05pm
I don't know how they got such poor pressure through the valves in that video. I have dissembled 2 inch skin fittings and had water come through as a solid jet 2 to 3 feet into the engine room [I had the pumps running in preparation] Holding hands over the fitting was near impossible. It certainly would not stop the leak I had from the inside. It would work as seal when applied to a solid bung or board to block a leak if it is jammed in position. Not a chance of sealing split rubber hoses. I was highly skeptical after seeing the video!

Imagine boats like Koomaloo being lost and there is a product like this available!
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
19 Jan 2014 8:03pm
Ramona, I agree partly with your skepticism but I think you are being too critical. The volume/pressure of water coming in is related to boat weight and hole size. They were using a pretty light boat, probably a small half cabin type. I imagine your fishing boat would have been maybe 10 or more tonnes therefore the different flows.

My boat weights about 6.5 tonnes and my log is about 1.25" dia. When I take the blank out to put the log in the flow is more than in the video but probably still manageable with this product. The flow they had from the split hose is similar to what I got from my stern tube when it cracked recently, though with a smaller hole and therefore at higher pressure.

I think the problem with Stay Afloat is more likely to be when the hole is small, say a 0.5 cm dia, and the pressure through the hole is like a jet of water, or a two inch choke where it just won't have the strength to hold in such a big hole.

At $13 or so for a small tub I can afford to trial it, probably use my engine water inlet, before I rely on it.
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
20 Jan 2014 9:39am
At $13 it is certainly good value and I would have no hesitation smearing it over a tapered bung that we all carry tethered near our seacocks.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
20 Jan 2014 9:49am
Here is the text of the response from the Australian distributors.

Hi John,
At present we require EFT or credit card payment to send direct from our stores.
Prices as follows:
Stay afloat .8kg (14634) $36.95 each
Stay afloat .4kg (14633) $23.50 each
Stay afloat .2kg (14632) $13.50 each
Freight to Sydney allow $13.00 each
All prices are plus GST of 10%
Regards,

Chris Burrows

Bulbeck EnviroSolutions Pty Ltd
Account Manager

4 Channel Road, MAYFIELD WEST NSW 2304
PO Box 367, HRMC NSW 2310
Ph: (02) 4957 2886 Fax: (02) 4952 8575
Mob: 0412 494 219
E-mail: [email protected]
DrRog
DrRog
NSW
608 posts
NSW, 608 posts
20 Jan 2014 10:17am
I think someone in another forum somewhere said that this is repackaged stuff that plumbers use to seal toilet bowls. I couldn't find it in my initial, half-hearted search.

Also, I read the packaging on some kneading epoxy putty the other day. It said that it contains an ingredient known in the state of California to cause cancer. Strongly advised against skin contact and breathing the fumes and, importantly, the dust from sanding the hardened material. Would you always know what you were sanding in a second hand boat? Crikey.
LooseChange
LooseChange
NSW
2140 posts
NSW, 2140 posts
20 Jan 2014 11:01am
I think the state of California has also found that cigarettes contain cancer causing substances. As did petrol, plus if I remember hydrogenated oils also didn't get a good rap.
BobFord
BobFord
QLD
92 posts
QLD, 92 posts
21 Jan 2014 2:46pm
California also decreed that bullets can give lead poisoning !
SandS
SandS
VIC
5904 posts
VIC, 5904 posts
21 Jan 2014 11:36pm
DrRog said..

I think someone in another forum somewhere said that this is repackaged stuff that plumbers use to seal toilet bowls. I couldn't find it in my initial, half-hearted search.

Also, I read the packaging on some kneading epoxy putty the other day. It said that it contains an ingredient known in the state of California to cause cancer. Strongly advised against skin contact and breathing the fumes and, importantly, the dust from sanding the hardened material. Would you always know what you were sanding in a second hand boat? Crikey.


If you recon epoxy is bad for your health , have a look at the msds for polyester resin !!
StormPetrel
StormPetrel
NSW
47 posts
NSW, 47 posts
23 Jan 2014 3:07pm
Water pressure = density of water x depth x acceleration due to gravity

Hence, water pressure is a function of depth only. The water at a depth of 6 feet is 2.7 pounds per square inch ( in the old measurements) and half this at a depth of 3 feet. The squirt you will get into the boat therefore just depends on how deep the hole is in the hull.

If the hole is 6 feet below the water line and the hole has an area of one square inch it will take a force equivalent to the weight of 2.7 pounds to stop water flowing into the hull. You could test any sealant (assuming it only has to hold leaks to a depth of 6 feet) by seeing if it will hold on when a few pounds per square inch pressure is applied to it.

To do this, drill a 1" area hole in a sheet of ply, hold the sheet horizontally on the surface of a water bath, seal the hole with the goo being tested and then put a dowel into the hole about the same area as the hole with a few pounds of mass on it. If the sealant holds the dowell and mass up for the rest of the day it will probably stop a leak at a depth of 6' in the ocean. OR simply seal the end of a long pipe and push it vertically into the water to the depth being tested and see if any water gets into the pipe

Cheers
Mark (physicist)
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
23 Jan 2014 3:43pm
Thanks Mark. I am a bit confused though.

If I have a hull with a draft of 2 ft in a boat weighing 2 tonnes e.g. a narrow but deep hull, will it have the same pressure on the hull per sq inch as a different hull with a 2 ft draft but supporting a 7 tonne boat e.g. a heavy boat with a wider beam. Isn't boat weight a factor in pressure exerted on the hull?

Luckily most yachts hulls only go down a couple of feet, the rest is solid keel. My engine inlet is a few inches above the keel join so I intend to use it as a hole to test this stuff.

StormPetrel
StormPetrel
NSW
47 posts
NSW, 47 posts
23 Jan 2014 10:18pm
No, boat weight has no effect other than often causing the hull to sit lower in the water (buoyancy requires the mass of water displaced by the submerged hull to be equal to the displacement of the boat). A hole in a submarine at depth would produce a jet of water that would be difficult to stop. A classic experiment to show how pressure changes with depth (you have probably seen) involves filling a tank with water and letting it leak out through holes drilled every few inches vertically in the tank. Water dribbles from the top hole but squirts further from the tank progressively as you look at each hole further down the tank.

You should be able to hold a rubber stopper in a seacock/ through hull but you will have to keep pressure on the stopper, it will not stay there alone. A rubber stopper will stay and stem a leak in a through hull provided it is inserted from the outside of the hull.

A hammered in wood plug stays in because the wood swells when wet and jams tight in the hole. That is why we 'all' tie wooden plugs to our through hulls.

Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
24 Jan 2014 9:23am
You only have to sit on the bottom tending your mooring using a hookah to understand pressure. Face mask pressure against your face is very obvious. Even two feet down you are aware of the pressure. Sail pulled over the outside of a hull over a hole stays there by pressure.
Fiesta
Fiesta
QLD
122 posts
QLD, 122 posts
24 Jan 2014 5:26pm
Storm Petrel is right on the money.

Applied Force on the plug = Pressure x Area

Its all about the diameter of the hole (area) and how deep (pressure) the hole is below waterline. Hull shape may dictate how deep your skin fitting is below the waterline, but thats it.


MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
24 Jan 2014 8:43pm
I have never really thought about it. Now I get it.
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