Hi!
I'm in the process of buying a cruiser on the Gold Coast this month and have been looking at insurance but so far I havent had much luck with insurance companies! First I tried NRMA and after speaking to an underwriter the person I was talking to informed me that they wouldnt be able to cover me for what I was wanting to do. I then tried Club Marine (Allianz) and was told the same thing!

What I am planning to do with the boat is keep it at a marina on the Gold Coast for a month or so while I become confidant with the boat and am able to fully equip it for some coastal cruising up and down the coast. I then plan on exploring the coast a bit with no pre-defined dates or destinations that I could give the insurance company in advance, and it's a strong possibility that the departure point would not be the same as the end point given I'd ultimately like to move the boat closer to an area where my family is living.

The companies I've spoke to so far have basically said that they wouldnt cover the boat unless it was moored on a swing mooring or birthed at a marina and on top of that the holiday I had planned was not clearly defined enough for them to insure me!

So I am looking for any advice / guidance / recommendations for what to do in regards to insurance. What do cruisers and liveaboards do? The NRMA and Allianz basically wont cover a boat kept on an anchor outside of a clearly defined travel period from what I understand. Am I looking in the wrong place or asking the wrong questions?

Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks!

The insurance companies I have dealt with didn't want to know what I was doing with the boat.
They wanted a location where it would be moored when at home and placed limits of say 250nm off the coast. Otherwise what you did wasn't important.
Pantaenius cover me for Lord Howe, provided I tell them, and they increase my excess when more than 200nm offshore.

As Asprott said, broker is your best bet.

Based on the recommendation of someone else here, I spoke to the guys at Tudor Insurance: http://www.tudorinsurance.com.au/boat.html

Really helpful, got me cover with QBE for a really old boat including racing cover & $10M public liability - all without a survey and vastly cheaper than other places.

Obviously, my situation is a bit different, but certainly worth a call.

Also, if you plan on single handing, Pants won't let you do so between sunset and sunrise. So if you get caught out due to weather or needing to move during the night, you won't be covered.

Thanks a lot everyone who replied, I'm still fighting the good fight and losing unfortunately.

jacktheflyer said..
Pantaneous also has a clause that says your boat is not insured at anchor if you are not on the boat. I have been assured this does not mean if you go ashore to the shops however the wording is clear. I like Nautilus. They have a reputation in Manly Bne of supporting the boating community and were recommended to me by an insurance professional. You don't really know until you need to claim.

Thanks for the heads up jack! I missed that in the PDS but it's a moot point as Pant said they would not offer me cover quoting to the age and value of the boat as the reasons, (the boat is a 1990 cruiser in great condition... and the value is around 30-40k which is well over their min value criteria which i was told by someone at Pant was 20k+...) needless to say I'm very confused...

2bish said..
Also, if you plan on single handing, Pants won't let you do so between sunset and sunrise. So if you get caught out due to weather or needing to move during the night, you won't be covered.

Good to know! most of the traveling I want to do will probably be single handed but as it's pretty tame stuff I really don't know why getting someone to give me a go is proving so difficult! (the most adventurous thing i will be doing is traveling down the coast at a couple of hours on a clear day at a time to get to the next interesting inshore area to explore.)

PetiePirate said..
Hi Dale,
i just went through the same process and was told by club marine and pantaenius that I just needed a "home pen" so they could work out the stamp duty. They still cover you while at anchor or moored within a geographical bounds (200 or 250Nm from the mainland) reading the fine print though there are some exceptions I.e you can't leave your boat on a mooring or anchor with no one on board in the Kimberleys or Darwin. And the club marine guy told me to contact them if you planned to stay in the Whitsundays for an extended period as certain exclusions can apply there too. I recommend printing all the pds and comparing them. Good luck

Thanks Petie, I actually tried to state a home port when I called Nautilus hoping for a better response (with Pant I kept getting the same unimpressed sounding receptionist each time before eventually getting an email saying basically that I wasn't worth their time...) With Nautilus they sent me a email declining to offer me cover due to the age of the boat and the fact that I had stated my intention to keep the boat on a swing mooring ideally. They at least said that they might reevaluate giving me a quote if I decided to keep the boat in a marina berth.

The boat would have to be one of the best examples of it's type in Australia... The engine is basically "out of the box" according to the mechanic I got to do the checks... New upholstery and covers... I'm having a brand new transom assembly put in to remove any corrosion which I'm pretty sure comes with brand new hydraulic hoses and fittings etc.. It's god damn beautiful so I really cant understand why I'm getting the street urchin treatment from all these damn insurance companies!

Planeray said..
As Asprott said, broker is your best bet.

Based on the recommendation of someone else here, I spoke to the guys at Tudor Insurance: http://www.tudorinsurance.com.au/boat.html

Really helpful, got me cover with QBE for a really old boat including racing cover & $10M public liability - all without a survey and vastly cheaper than other places.

Obviously, my situation is a bit different, but certainly worth a call.

Thanks Planeray, I'm just a bit hesitant now that a lot of big companies have turned me down. I'm sure I could find someone to take my money but getting them to actually pay out if something happens and not just loophole out of my cover is the thing. I'm not saying anything bad about tudor (i've never actually heard of them and that's kinda the problem), but if NRMA, Club Marine, Pant and Nautilus have all said no for various reasons, then I really feel like I'm doing something wrong and would like to figure out what it is :(

MorningBird said..
The insurance companies I have dealt with didn't want to know what I was doing with the boat.
They wanted a location where it would be moored when at home and placed limits of say 250nm off the coast. Otherwise what you did wasn't important.
Pantaenius cover me for Lord Howe, provided I tell them, and they increase my excess when more than 200nm offshore.

What kind of boat may I ask? And what value? I have a feeling a newer model boat with maybe another zero or two than mine might have gotten me a somewhat different response, but also... what you do with the boat probably isnt important until something happens and you find out you were doing something that you weren't covered for... I specifically tried to ask and make sure that I would be covered for what I wanted to do and apparently I wouldn't be, but in the case of Pant they flat out just stated the age and value as the reason they wouldn't give me a quote but I really find it hard to believe since despite its age the actual condition of the boat is gorgeous and I wouldn't have said the price tag was anything to sneeze at either... there would surely have to be many more people with worse assets that have managed cover somehow.

asprott said..
Try a broker. I just got quotes for similar. Buy boat and leave on gold coast for up to 2 months to allow time to organise delivery trip to Hobart. I'll be bringing it down myself with small crew. Most policies cover up to 250nm offcoast.
Policy lists Hobart as home port, so maybe work out where you will be keeping closer to home first.

Thanks asprott, I did actually try working out a home port first but with only marginally better results. When you say "Try a Broker" do you mean try to get insurance through the people I am buying the boat off or another boat seller? I didn't know brokers also offered insurance! So you got your insurance through a broker?

Give them a try .They have me with QBE . No hassles.
abhillermarine.com

sirgallivant said..
Well, here we go again...

The above discussion about the criminals called insurance, is one of those sad examples we get through regularly.

My claim and successful resolution of my problem after a lightning strike proves pro primo, one must have insurance, pro secundo, some insurance companies are decent to a fault, this time QBE.
I am glad l left ClubMarine for QBE.
I am very happy with them, and if one needs more information or advice send me a pm.
The yacht is 1989 on a mooring in Sydney and insured for 42K.

My experience with QBE was terrible, and a friend is having a similar issue with them.

"Need help understanding marine insurance!"

Yes, so does everybody else who deals with them.

After being the customer of ClubMarine (value $36K) for years and suffering their avaricious yearly increase of premium - from $680 to $1150/ year - within four years! - l left them and employed QBE insuring my boat for 42K with additional 5K sporting equipment (fishing&diving) and $5K for extras. (tiller pilot, binocular, phones, tablets etc.) with $500 excess for $849 on a mooring in Sydney Harbour.

After a claim, just six months into the contract, QBE settled the claim to my satisfaction and the repairs have been carried out.
It was more of a hassle to deal with the tradies for a quote than QBE to settle the claim.
This year when the renewal was due - l expected an unpleasant surprise - l received a renewal offer with a premium increase of $69.

I am still a QBE customer.

I might be lucky.
Hearing horror stories like Chris's, really makes one's blood boil, however, nothing would change my opinion of QBE one iota.

Bananabender said..
Give them a try .They have me with QBE . No hassles.
abhillermarine.com

sirgallivant said..
Well, here we go again...

The above discussion about the criminals called insurance, is one of those sad examples we get through regularly.

My claim and successful resolution of my problem after a lightning strike proves pro primo, one must have insurance, pro secundo, some insurance companies are decent to a fault, this time QBE.
I am glad l left ClubMarine for QBE.
I am very happy with them, and if one needs more information or advice send me a pm.
The yacht is 1989 on a mooring in Sydney and insured for 42K.

sirgallivant said..
"Need help understanding marine insurance!"

Yes, so does everybody else who deals with them.

After being the customer of ClubMarine (value $36K) for years and suffering their avaricious yearly increase of premium - from $680 to $1150/ year - within four years! - l left them and employed QBE insuring my boat for 42K with additional 5K sporting equipment (fishing&diving) and $5K for extras. (tiller pilot, binocular, phones, tablets etc.) with $500 excess for $849 on a mooring in Sydney Harbour.

After a claim, just six months into the contract, QBE settled the claim to my satisfaction and the repairs have been carried out.
It was more of a hassle to deal with the tradies for a quote than QBE to settle the claim.
This year when the renewal was due - l expected an unpleasant surprise - l received a renewal offer with a premium increase of $69.

I am still a QBE customer.

I might be lucky.
Hearing horror stories like Chris's, really makes one's blood boil, however, nothing would change my opinion of QBE one iota.

Thanks for the info guys, my only concern with QBE is that their PDS says they do not cover you if you are living aboard your vessel, and since I'd basically be living aboard for decent periods, and the marinas I've been looking into require me to fill out "liveaboard applications" for the amount of time I'm enquiring about staying with them for, I'm afraid of this fact being an easy out for them should I ever need to make a claim.

My boat is 1984 build and insured with Pantaenius for $65,000. If it was $40,000 I reckon they would cover it.
I suspect you have told them something that has put them off.
Maybe call again with a fresh start, don't tell them who you are or that you have already called. Just say you want to insure your yacht, its type, age, a mooring location and what you paid for it.
See what they say.

Dale Christopher said..

MorningBird said..
My boat is 1984 build and insured with Pantaenius for $65,000. If it was $40,000 I reckon they would cover it.
I suspect you have told them something that has put them off.
Maybe call again with a fresh start, don't tell them who you are or that you have already called. Just say you want to insure your yacht, its type, age, a mooring location and what you paid for it.
See what they say.

Yer that was definitely the way to go Bird, it took a while for me to figure out how to talk to them and what they did and didn't want to hear but I'm glad to say I'm now insured with one of the companies I mentioned above.

I don't like badmouthing businesses but I will say generally for anyone interested that the insurance brokers I've dealt with in regards to this were quite useless, but this has been my experience with policy broker types before so I'm not surprised. It's because of past experiences home loan brokers that I now prefer to do all the leg work myself because I've proven to be able to do a much better job and this time was no exception.

Thank you to everyone who offered advice, I will add a couple of things that I think helped for anyone reading this in the future with a similar problem. Try not to pose specific scenarios to these companies to see if in those cases you will be covered, try to sound as general and hypothetical as possible and before that try to really understand the Product Disclosure Statements and get your answers from that. If you are having difficulty getting insurance keeping your boat at a marina instead of on a swing mooring can help things considerably. Figure out a home port beforehand and try not to overwhelm them with any adventurous plans you might have. From what I can tell the principle is similar to that old joke about banks and lending... They will only lend you money if you can prove you don't need it.

Cheers!

Well don't keep us in suspense, which one did you use??

Dale Christopher said..

MorningBird said..
My boat is 1984 build and insured with Pantaenius for $65,000. If it was $40,000 I reckon they would cover it.
I suspect you have told them something that has put them off.
Maybe call again with a fresh start, don't tell them who you are or that you have already called. Just say you want to insure your yacht, its type, age, a mooring location and what you paid for it.
See what they say.

Yer that was definitely the way to go Bird, it took a while for me to figure out how to talk to them and what they did and didn't want to hear but I'm glad to say I'm now insured with one of the companies I mentioned above.

I don't like badmouthing businesses but I will say generally for anyone interested that the insurance brokers I've dealt with in regards to this were quite useless, but this has been my experience with policy broker types before so I'm not surprised. It's because of past experiences home loan brokers that I now prefer to do all the leg work myself because I've proven to be able to do a much better job and this time was no exception.

Thank you to everyone who offered advice, I will add a couple of things that I think helped for anyone reading this in the future with a similar problem. Try not to pose specific scenarios to these companies to see if in those cases you will be covered, try to sound as general and hypothetical as possible and before that try to really understand the Product Disclosure Statements and get your answers from that. If you are having difficulty getting insurance keeping your boat at a marina instead of on a swing mooring can help things considerably. Figure out a home port beforehand and try not to overwhelm them with any adventurous plans you might have. From what I can tell the principle is similar to that old joke about banks and lending... They will only lend you money if you can prove you don't need it.

Cheers!

Its really a sorry state for all of us.