Economically, it's a very silly idea. House prices generally rise or keep value.

NoClue said..
Hi,

I've been toying with the idea of selling my house and getting a boat. My wife and I have been watching various youtube video's of people sailing around doing the same thing over the last 2 years or so and have decided to take the next step, instead of dreaming to actually check whether it's a possibility for us.

While searching the internet I came across this post (forums/Sailing/General/Some-advice-re-live-aboard-NSW) ... which on the surface looks like it could scuttle our dream before it even happens, and was just chasing some confirmation.

The idea I had was to actually live on the boat permanently, but looking at this, it's beginning to seem as though it's not as straightforward as the video's I've watched on youtube.

Is it not possible to actually buy and live on a boat in Australia unless I pay for a berth in a Marina? Or are there other options available. (One I thought would be to sail from state to state, but with border lock-downs being so unpredictable it's not something I would want to rely on at the moment).

If so - what sort of price would I be looking at for a suitable Marina to live in? (Location I'd initially be interested in would be northern coast NSW - no where specifically - the cheaper the better, provided we have internet connection and a grocery shop nearby).

Thanks in advance

NC

(Relocated here after I accidentally posted in the wind-sailing section)

we live aboard full time and have done so for the last 3 years. we sold our house (and brought an investment / rental property) so the boat is our only home

we spend very little time in paid marina berths...perhaps 4-5 weeks total over this time, when needed for eg repairs

usually we spend 2-3 days moving and then 2-3 weeks in one spot, but this can easily morph into 2-3 months if the mood takes us. there are many folk doing the same...we know personally of dozens - if not hundreds - of boats

so to your question, yes it is entirely possible to live aboard without being tied to a marina

if you do want a marina berth, the cost varies widely, but for our 40' cat it tends to start at around $1200 per month (nb : not all marinas welcome live aboards, but the further you are from a capital city the better it all gets !)

cheers,

PacificStar said..

we live aboard full time and have done so for the last 3 years. we sold our house (and brought an investment / rental property) so the boat is our only home

we spend very little time in paid marina berths...perhaps 4-5 weeks total over this time, when needed for eg repairs

usually we spend 2-3 days moving and then 2-3 weeks in one spot, but this can easily morph into 2-3 months if the mood takes us. there are many folk doing the same...we know personally of dozens - if not hundreds - of boats

so to your question, yes it is entirely possible to live aboard without being tied to a marina

if you do want a marina berth, the cost varies widely, but for our 40' cat it tends to start at around $1200 per month (nb : not all marinas welcome live aboards, but the further you are from a capital city the better it all gets !)

cheers,

Thanks heaps for that bit of information. So the information on the other thread (about only being able to live on your boat for 90 days a year in NSW) is not correct then? That's fantastic.

As for marina's - the further away from a capital city - the happier I'll be. Born and bred in the bush - I'm more than happy with quieter and more basic settings. :-)

NoClue said..

PacificStar said..

we live aboard full time and have done so for the last 3 years. we sold our house (and brought an investment / rental property) so the boat is our only home

we spend very little time in paid marina berths...perhaps 4-5 weeks total over this time, when needed for eg repairs

usually we spend 2-3 days moving and then 2-3 weeks in one spot, but this can easily morph into 2-3 months if the mood takes us. there are many folk doing the same...we know personally of dozens - if not hundreds - of boats

so to your question, yes it is entirely possible to live aboard without being tied to a marina

if you do want a marina berth, the cost varies widely, but for our 40' cat it tends to start at around $1200 per month (nb : not all marinas welcome live aboards, but the further you are from a capital city the better it all gets !)

cheers,

Thanks heaps for that bit of information. So the information on the other thread (about only being able to live on your boat for 90 days a year in NSW) is not correct then? That's fantastic.

As for marina's - the further away from a capital city - the happier I'll be. Born and bred in the bush - I'm more than happy with quieter and more basic settings. :-)

it must be said that there are rules like the one you mention, but even the BSOs admit that these rules are unenforceable (who counts the 90 days ? how ?). i've only ever heard of them being used on sydney harbour with folk who make a nuisance of themselves (and ask for trouble) - and even then, very rarely

the key is to maintain your vessel in good condition (esp appearance) and to be a 'good neighbour'

agree about the cities. we are only in sydney for a few months to visit family for christmas, then we're heading south for summer, then back up queensland way by autumn

as regards marina costs : although horizon shores is one of the lower cost marinas (we have some friends staying there right now) i suspect banana bender is talking about a mono. rates for cats are usually abt 1.5 x the mono rate

nb : our situation is 'permanently cruising'. it is different for folk who wish to moor a boat in a fixed location and go to work each day...maybe keep a car etc. this is much harder - although we do know quite a few people doing just this.

cheers,

I would always suggest keeping the house and renting it out. The cost of getting back into the property market if things go pear shape will be very challenging. Also you have a postal address which will come in handy when dealing with the NSW boating officers. They don't like people without addresses! Buy a boat you can afford to walk away from if you screw up. Pick a country/seaside town to homeport and have a mooring [you need an address for that]. Try that for 12 months or so and see if you are actually the cruising type.

Thanks all for your replies.

At present it's a day trip to get to the coast, so keeping our house and traveling to our boat each time we want to work on it, go sailing, etc is not a practical choice. It makes more sense to us to live on our boat at the location than traveling back and forth.

Understood regarding the property markets, and that it will be very difficult to get back into if we sell up for a boat. This is something for us to consider, but in the end we may not be able to do both. (Plus - who knows... we may decide we prefer another country better than Australia in the end and desire to remain there. I'm not sure how possible this is, or what's required in that way - but we're open to anything at this stage in our lives).

So as I understand it then, expect $7,500 upwards for a catamaran at a marina for us to live at. On top of that, we may be able to live off a boat by doing coastal sailing provided we don't stay at the one spot for too long.

Thanks! I'm guessing this is something we will require at the very beginning until we have the experience to start our coastal sailing, which after then we'll be able to do a mixture of anchorages, marinas and moorings?

Still wondering how we can ensure that they don't get ripped off when buying a boat (for people like us who have little experience) so we don't get a lemon. Is it enough to get a surveyor to inspect the vessel and give a report? Do surveyors normally pick up on most things like this? Is it better to buy through a broker than direct? Does that give any extra bit of security?

Thanks in advance.

NoClue said..


Still wondering how we can ensure that they don't get ripped off when buying a boat (for people like us who have little experience) so we don't get a lemon. Is it enough to get a surveyor to inspect the vessel and give a report? Do surveyors normally pick up on most things like this? Is it better to buy through a broker than direct? Does that give any extra bit of security?

I purchased a boat earlier this year, similar dreams to you and similar concerns about trying to figure out what to buy.

After establishing my intended use (Cruising/liveaboard), I zeroed in on design and construction as starting points and found that quickly reduced the number of potential boats down dramatically.

For instance, I like the west system composite construction, that would be my first choice and that would pretty much limit my search to just custom catamarans. Then I would be deciding things I like such as bridgedeck clearance, draft, shaft vs saildrive, sail plan etc etc that would further reduce the number of potential boats. Then budget and location and before you know it there would probably only be a small number of suitable boats and you can start comparing the extra's like electronics and how many dunnies it has or does it have a coffee maker aboard.

Brokers will try to show you the bling but what I needed to know is the bones of the boat. The bling will come and go as I repair and replace stuff but the design and the way its built is what was most important to me. Just my opinion, i am new to this as well but thats how I went about it.

Qld is pretty easy going for live aboard. Plenty of marinas ok with it. Quite a few not so much. In reality you'll be 'cruising' as others have mentioned why live on a boat in a marina if you already have a house. The sea view gets old fairly quickly (usually because you can't see the sea).

I say give it a go but for me it would have to be at least a 40' mono for space, tankage, comfort etc.

You definitely want a plan B solution which would be keeping either the house you have or a cheaper rental purchased with the proceeds of the current home with the change to buy the boat I guess.

It is entirely possible that one or both of you will find its not quite the dream you imagined.

For me the size of my boat goes against long term cruising. The most I've done is 9 - 10 weeks and then I'm sort of over the whole 'camping' nature of it. 34 foot narrow arsed mono.

Modern production thing around 40ft is a different story all together though. Think I could happily do 6 months on a bigger vessel.

Live forever on a boat? No way.

I love the adventure when on a trip and going somewhere though. There is no substitute. Fantastic!!

There are a million questions. You need to find someone who has done it and still wants to talk about in person. Visit a marina or two that has a few live aboards and start asking questions till they tell you to bugger off.

Good luck. Have fun.

I love my boat, and have a house. I am lucky but I did build my own boat, which helps keep costs way down as I pay only the rigger and sailmaker for anything on my boat. Everything else I do myself. If I was on my own I would rent the house and live on the boat, but working is hard from a boat, at least in NSW. The Botanic Gardens in Brisbane are easy for boat life.

I have lived for 7 years on board. Cruising is not a marina based activity. I don't like marinas, they make my boat feel smaller, when she isn't, she doesn't lie to the wind, people can walk by really closely and they cost a lot. I much prefer to be cruising and the nice places I want to visit don't have marinas. Last 7 month trip north we spent 1 night at a marina, because a friend wanted to buy some cheap antifoul and asked me to pick it up. Apart from that we never wanted to. Our 38 ft performance cat does let us have some serious time off though. We spent 10 days in North Zoe Creek in Hinchinbrook, which is about as still as a marina berth, incredibly beautiful and free. It was as taxing as being in a B and B. And for a week we had it all to ourselves. (Although we did keep an eye our for the resident croc). Cruising is about pottering along. Most of the time you will like to potter somewhere nice, and marinas do not feature as places I want to go. They do for others but we don't cater for them in our budget. When I worked, it was a different story and we spent a school term in Townsville marina. The boys went to school and I did a term at the local high school. The costs were a bit high but I earnt enough to pay the big bills and then we could run on the smell of an oily rag (financially) again for another year. Get in, earn and get out.

I would also urge you to keep the house. To have to make a huge leap will be a brave undertaking. By keeping the house you will be able to have a few bad experiences without worrying too much that you have made an awful mistake - the ramifications are less drastic. Rent it out, put the boat on the mortgage, and if things work out, great, think about downsizing and selling later.

I would also second the mention of the cheapish boat. There are no advantages in access to wonderful places by having a more expensive boat. In fact, in some way, you have to be able to lose your boat and be okay with that. You need to be able to walk away, to go for a walk, or shopping, or to a beach party, and not worry hugely. A bit of worry is good, but if boat loss ruins you, then that would be too much. I have been lucky and the silly things I have done have not wrecked my boat. I try very hard to be good, but I know that one day a mistake I make could cause me to lose her. The thought worries me, but it does not keep me up at night. Don't put so much into a boat that its loss would crush you. (Although I love my boat dearly and never see me selling her, she is as close to perfect for me as can be. Don't tell her that her loss would not crush me. At least I think it wouldn't.)

Kankama said..
I love my boat, and have a house. I am lucky but I did build my own boat, which helps keep costs way down as I pay only the rigger and sailmaker for anything on my boat. Everything else I do myself. If I was on my own I would rent the house and live on the boat, but working is hard from a boat, at least in NSW. The Botanic Gardens in Brisbane are easy for boat life.

I have lived for 7 years on board. Cruising is not a marina based activity. I don't like marinas, they make my boat feel smaller, when she isn't, she doesn't lie to the wind, people can walk by really closely and they cost a lot. I much prefer to be cruising and the nice places I want to visit don't have marinas. Last 7 month trip north we spent 1 night at a marina, because a friend wanted to buy some cheap antifoul and asked me to pick it up. Apart from that we never wanted to. Our 38 ft performance cat does let us have some serious time off though. We spent 10 days in North Zoe Creek in Hinchinbrook, which is about as still as a marina berth, incredibly beautiful and free. It was as taxing as being in a B and B. And for a week we had it all to ourselves. (Although we did keep an eye our for the resident croc). Cruising is about pottering along. Most of the time you will like to potter somewhere nice, and marinas do not feature as places I want to go. They do for others but we don't cater for them in our budget. When I worked, it was a different story and we spent a school term in Townsville marina. The boys went to school and I did a term at the local high school. The costs were a bit high but I earnt enough to pay the big bills and then we could run on the smell of an oily rag (financially) again for another year. Get in, earn and get out.

I would also urge you to keep the house. To have to make a huge leap will be a brave undertaking. By keeping the house you will be able to have a few bad experiences without worrying too much that you have made an awful mistake - the ramifications are less drastic. Rent it out, put the boat on the mortgage, and if things work out, great, think about downsizing and selling later.

I would also second the mention of the cheapish boat. There are no advantages in access to wonderful places by having a more expensive boat. In fact, in some way, you have to be able to lose your boat and be okay with that. You need to be able to walk away, to go for a walk, or shopping, or to a beach party, and not worry hugely. A bit of worry is good, but if boat loss ruins you, then that would be too much. I have been lucky and the silly things I have done have not wrecked my boat. I try very hard to be good, but I know that one day a mistake I make could cause me to lose her. The thought worries me, but it does not keep me up at night. Don't put so much into a boat that its loss would crush you. (Although I love my boat dearly and never see me selling her, she is as close to perfect for me as can be. Don't tell her that her loss would not crush me. At least I think it wouldn't.)

Thanks for your post Kankama,

Sounds like relocating to QLD may be the better option for us if we pursue this path. My preference wouldn't be to remain in marina's, but I couldn't help consider that it might be the most practical place to start from, until we get our bearings on how to work from there.

I am reconsidering other options instead of selling the house now. Obviously living at the house while sailing is not an option, so maybe renting it out may be the best option, or otherwise selling up and buying closer to the coast. At present it's all just putting pencil to paper to see what options are available and the pitfalls - so suggestions such as the property market and caution about selling is something I hadn't considered previously and very much appreciate these tips that could save us a lot of pain.

I'm not chasing the most expensive boat, but my guess is that comfort will play a big part as to how successful we will be with our endeavors. Too small and uncomfortable I suspect will dampen our motivations more than something that is quite comfortable and large.

I'd hate the thought of losing the boat - I figure it would be the equivalent of having our house burnt to the ground), but likewise it's obviously a greater possibility - which is why I'm also so interested in insurance.

Again - thanks to everyone who has taken the time out of their day to respond!

- NC

julesmoto said..
There is no stamp duty when buying a boat at least in New South Wales so you can easily turn around and sell it again if you make a mistake. Not so with buying or selling houses which costs a fortune in stamp duty agents commissions and solicitors fees.
I have never bought off an agent and don't like the idea because you don't get to talk to the owner and any questions you ask have to be put to the owner who may or may not reply properly and of course there is a time delay which severely limits the amount of questions you can ask. There is certainly no warranty when buying off an agent as there is with cars. I think some people use agents so they don't have to answer embarrassing questions and agents know this and are loath to contact the owner with too many questions.
Interestingly I recently looked at a catamaran on Pittwater which presented very well and was being sold through an agent. When looking into the bilges I noticed new gelcoat and asked the guy showing me over the boat what the repair was about and he said he didn't know. I went to look at another cat through the same agent later that day and another representative actually the agency owner took me and I asked about the previous boat and he volunteered that it had been washed up on land in Fiji and had had both keels replaced. As the keels were bolt-on and sacrificial clearly there was far more damage than that to result in extensive new interior gelcoat under the floorboards. I would rather deal with an owner any day although of course they can lie but I don't think most do.

Oh - I had no idea there was no stamp duty - that's fantastic to know.

With the particular story in question about the damage - do you think this is something a surveyor would have picked up on?

Just add to boat survey.
They are two types of survey.
Buying the boat with survey...that paper is no value, you can ignore it.
Condition your surveyor with specific attention to maintenance/ repair
required and cost estimate.

wongaga said..

woko said..
Surveyors are trained to pick up that sort of thing

That's true and so they should, but not all do so try to get some recommendations from people you can trust (like on Seabreeze ). The survey on my boat when I bought it missed some quite significant issues.

Oh wow - that's concerning to hear. If you're comfortable - would you mind please sharing what some of these issues were, just so I have an idea on what could be missed please?