What is warranty worth on new engine?

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Sydney88
Sydney88
NSW
108 posts
NSW, 108 posts
19 Oct 2016 9:13pm
Grappling with the idea of importing a new engine from the UK. Savings are around $2,500 after all taxes and shipping etc. around 23% of engine value. Do you think it is worth the risk? My main concern is a catastrophic failure, not really worried about day to day repairs. The engine is a Y@nmar 30AE. Has anyone had any experience with failure in a new engine?
Agent nods
Agent nods
622 posts
622 posts
19 Oct 2016 7:15pm
I tend to think is is a matter of the installation.

If it a like for like swap?....engine mounts, propshafts., intakes outtakes..... electrics etc, cost to replace modify??? (remember it is marine!)

If you install yourself, or pay some one to do it ...and there is a problem, even if the OS supplier abides by the guarantee, cost of install, remove, and install again and maybe the freight again...will cost you? more than the engine?

If you can get a local supplier at a reasonable price, even if not installed by them - you can say here it is - fix it!


someday
someday
NSW
97 posts
NSW, 97 posts
19 Oct 2016 10:47pm
I can not see anything in the Yanmar warranty manual to say the warranty would not apply on the imported engine:

www.powerequipment.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Recreational-LDC-Ltd-Warranty.pdf

Last paragraph, p3:
"This Limited Warranty covers YANMAR Marine Products operating anywhere in the world where Yanmar approved service is available."

After establishing in the very first paragraph p.3 that the owner can install the engine:

"Before installing or using your YANMAR Marine Product(s), please read and understand this handbook and the applicable Operation Manual(s) carefully."

it is unusual that the Yanmar warranty does not say it requires the installation to be inspected by a Yanmar dealer in order to activate the warranty.

p. 7:
"Items Excluded from Warranty
...
* Any YANMAR Marine Product, accessory or part that has been, in YANMAR’s sole judgment, subject to negligence, misuse, accident, improper installation, water intrusion from the exhaust system, improper maintenance, racing or engaging in a contest of speed or endurance, use of non-approved attachments or non-genuine parts, submersion or unreasonable exposure to the environment or serviced by an unauthorized facility;"

So for Yanmar the warranty clock starts ticking as soon as the engine is delivered:

p.4:
"This Limited Warranty begins on the date of delivery to the original purchaser."

Vetus and Volvo Penta require the engine installation to be inspected by one of their dealers within 6 months of purchase. Vetus may charge for the inspection (it is best to negotiate this when buying the engine), and activate the warranty on the date of the inspection.

Beta, Vetus and Volvo Penta are fine with the user buying parts from anywhere on the planet. While as Yanmar dealers are only allowed to sell parts in their local dealer area.

It is easy to look up prices on Vetus and Volvo Penta parts at overseas suppliers. Beta seem to have a good reputation with owner installs, I can't find their parts prices though.

I can find Yanmar parts prices on the internet, but the suppliers are not allowed to sell them to me.

Yanmar only offer a 6 month warranty on their very expensive parts, and if the part is replaced under this short warranty, then the replacement has no warranty:

www.powerequipment.com.au/warranty/

"PARTS WARRANTY

WARRANTY PERIOD

The limit of the warranty period for the parts shall be six months from the replacement date of the part.

...

(2) When a certain part of a defective part is replaced, the replacement part shall not be covered by this warranty."

I really like the Yanmar 3YM20 and 3YM30AE engines. They have great specifications, I love how they have K6 serpentine pulleys as standard.

Much as I like the Yanmar engines I'm unsure if I would buy one as I dislike their restrictive trade on not being able to buy parts on the internet, their expensive parts pricing, and the poor warranty on their expensive parts.

It might be tempting at a 23% discount though.

I like Beta except that I am unsure if the Balmar AT-165 alternator would fit on a Beta-20 or Beta-25. The heat exchanger seems too close on the Kubota engines.

I like the Vetus M3.29. I guess on a lot of sailboats with the engine behind the companionway steps that the owners would dislike the Vetus engine layout with the fuel filter at the rear of the engine, the water pump facing backwards, etc. A lot of the engines try to put the service parts at the front of the engine. Since it only has tiny vee belt pulleys, fitting a high output alternator would require machining a serpentine pulley kit (or maybe the Westerbeke 30C pulley kits might work since it is the same Mitsubishi L3E base engine).

Although I will need to buy an engine later, they are expensive. So I'm thinking I'll make a wooden model of the engine and install that instead, to defer the cost of buying the engine and to not start the warranty clock while working on the installation.
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
20 Oct 2016 6:38am
You best ask the Australia distributor if they support imported engines
An engine sold in Australia can be different than a engine from some other country.
When looking up parts via the engines serial number can become a problem. Im not saying this can be the case on what you want to buy but its a possibility.
Sydney88
Sydney88
NSW
108 posts
NSW, 108 posts
21 Oct 2016 9:11am
I have checked the part numbers and believe it is the same engine, the same engine would be fitted to new imported boats being sold here. I think the risk of the engine failing due to an issue that would be covered by warranty is rather low.

I'm surprised more people aren't doing it considering the cost to import is relatively low, e.g Door to door Airfreight with TNT is about 1000AUD + GST on Engine & Freight + AQIS inspection, no other tariff as far as I can see as marine propulsion engines excluded from import duty.

I would imagine on a cheaper engine like the 20hp models it would be well worth it.
Trek
Trek
NSW
1216 posts
NSW, 1216 posts
23 Oct 2016 9:21am
David, what price to you find for for 3YM30AE ?

I've re-engined twice with used motors and always was worried about any decent long distance sailing with them, not knowing how many hours they'd done and condition inside.

Im most interested in fitting a new engine around the 30hp bracket.

twodogs1969
twodogs1969
NSW
1000 posts
NSW, 1000 posts
23 Oct 2016 12:23pm
I paid $13000 for a 30hp volvo with Saildrive last year local
Sydney88
Sydney88
NSW
108 posts
NSW, 108 posts
23 Oct 2016 4:05pm
Hi Trek, they are advertised for around 11.5k w gearbox. You should be able to shave more off especially if the dealer is doing the install. Can get one landed here from overseas by air freight 4-5 day to your door for around 8.5 incl all taxes. What did you pay for your used ones?

Regarding the risk of no warranty I was wondering what you would pay for a hypothetical used one just out of warranty with 200 hours in excellent condition? Or what would you pay for a new one that someone brought but never installed but was out of warranty. Eg I once purchased a YSE8 the owner purchased it and passed away before it could be installed, it stayed in its original box for 20-30 years.
Crusoe
Crusoe
QLD
1197 posts
QLD, 1197 posts
23 Oct 2016 5:46pm
I would imagine that most Yanmar dealers make money out of selling the engine and also the labour when they install it. If everyone imported engines and then went looking for a yanmar mechanic to install it, there probably would be a lot less still in business. Giving a Quote on an install when you are only making money out of labour is hard and boats always seem to be a can of worms when you start a job.

And from my experience, there is no money to be made doing warranty work. A lot of retailers cop the short fall due to the fact they sold you the engine and made some money in the process.

Bit like buying from eBay and then wanting the local supplier to provide warranty. And people ask what happened to the Bias marine shop.
Trek
Trek
NSW
1216 posts
NSW, 1216 posts
23 Oct 2016 7:27pm

Australian marine dealers reap what they get. Its not my job to keep them in business if they cant compete. In years of boating in Sydney the stories of marine dealers ripping off boaties I could recite are endless. Not all, but plenty.

I myself experienced them not showing up to repair jobs, lying about problems to get service work, saying they fixed something and they didnt and selling "reconditioned" engines that were simply repainted and taking deposits then disappearing. Not all. But plenty.

If these dealers were OK no-one would dream of bypassing them. Thank goodness for Ebay and the opportunity to remove the expensive often useless (not all) middleman. The dealers have the opportunity to compete now and prove how worthwhile their service is.

But I dont think it is (to answer your question about worth of a warranty) and will be very happy to import a new motor and take my chances with it.

To answer your question both used ones I bought were $3000. The first I bought from a Volvo dealer in Sydney called Fenquins supposedly "reconditioned". After it was installed it never had any power and was difficult then impossible to start. They refused to come to boat (in Sydney) to look at it.

I pulled it out and sent it to them at Ingleburn to fix. The mechanic there didnt know I had bought it from them and told me it was a crap motor and needed a $5000 recondition!!! Theres a dealer for you.

Will let you know David.!
Sydney88
Sydney88
NSW
108 posts
NSW, 108 posts
23 Oct 2016 8:25pm
Actually came to the same decision. Going to take the risk, I've had warranty before and 9 times out of 10 they just say its wear and tear, not installed properly, will just cover parts and not labour etc. The only thing I can see me calling on a warranty for is if there was a manufacturing defect that resulted in a catastrophic failure or recall, I think the chance of a defect like that would be pretty low and if it happened id just swallow my pride and buy another one and part out the old one.
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