My view is if you pay top dollar for sails made by an Australian sailmaker you should get 100%. If you don't get it right from a local why would you use them rather than buy them from Asia. The problem is in who measures the boat up for the sails.

I had to measure Morning Bird up for the sails from Fareast Sails and understand how critical this is. If the sailmaker measured up they would have to be responsible to make the sails fit and set properly. If you measured the boat up the sailmaker might say it was the measurement that caused the problem.

MorningBird said..
My view is if you pay top dollar for sails made by an Australian sailmaker you should get 100%. If you don't get it right from a local why would you use them rather than buy them from Asia. The problem is in who measures the boat up for the sails.

I had to measure Morning Bird up for the sails from Fareast Sails and understand how critical this is. If the sailmaker measured up they would have to be responsible to make the sails fit and set properly. If you measured the boat up the sailmaker might say it was the measurement that caused the problem.

That was what i expected
I went to the trouble of visiting 3 melbourne based sailmakers in their lofts to discuss my requirements and corresponded with 2 off shore sailmaking lofts before choosing one and paying a deposit.
Discussions included the appropriate measuring for the sails but being an established class i was assured there was no need to measure the rig
My decision was not made on price in fact it was the highest quote but was assured they would be superior to anything else
In hindsight it makes me wonder that by choosing an established sailmaker who obviously competes on a world market that you are choosing someone who has been successful in mastering the compromise in quality and that is how they have stayed in business
I plan to return the sails now for the work that was not done , repair the obvious faults and tackle the question of slack leeches
one of my most despised conditions of a headsail is flapping leeches requiring leechline to tighten and the end result of a curled and hooking leech
on a new sail is that unreasonable ?

Here is some video of the flapping headsails

it can be stopped with leechline tension but imho should not be needed with new sails as it causes leech curl
could it be an error in calculation or sail design software ?
the specification was for "high performance racing"

MM, so who ended up doing the measuring in the end?

I've got a assy spin on order at the moment.
I did the measurements, so if it doesn't fit, guess who's in the preverbial.

If you paid a fair price, you should get a fair level of service.
If the sailmaker's the real thing, I'd be inclined to maybe grab a slab and both of you go for a sail and show him whats going on.

It may be something simple, like Pekeri suggested.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Reading an article in PBO, it seems there is a large variation in the quality of "Dacron"/polyester cloth on the market. Hence buying cheap may not be a good long term solution. I found this problem in my industrial applications, where my old reliable French supplier started to sell poor quality filter cloth. Turns out they are buying cheaper yarn to try to stay competitive.

I say the sailmaker has a responsibility to ensure that the sails fit and are of merchantable quality.

"but being an established class I was assured there was no need to measure the rig". Doesn't mean that the boat a standard class rig on it and promising to deliver a "Superior" product, he should now live up to that claim. If he is such highly regarded professional sailmaker he should have come out and measured the boat and at the completion of the job should have gone to the boat again and fitted them to see if any adjustments needed to be made.

I posted the same topic on a different forum and it has been interesting some of the comments made including those on masthead rigs and the apparent sensitivity to rig tension and the like
www.trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11978

Hi sail59
Pretty disappointing all round when he stood there and pointed to a rack of sail bags slagging off that they were all useless rubbish from asia....this question on sail cloth quality concerns me cause i have no idea how to identify its quality....it does feel different to the new sails i used in the past .....it seems like more weave and pliable like not as much filler in the weave.
If you had a look on the link and saw his effort at recutting my old gennie you may understand my concern in having him rework them.
I am brushing up on my consumer law but hopefully he will behave sensibly and realize he has a problem

MM your youtube looked like you sail on Corio bay.

What about getting someone else to do a quick inspection of the cloth?

Tony Bull used to check these forums a while back, I'm sure he'd offer you an opinion.
He also uses o/s factories depending on the project, and I'm is probably familiar with the type of cloth you may have.

google bullsails

Well as expected the result of my effort to resolve any disputes with the sailmakers went from bad to worse.

Basically all the agreements made on the day and witnessed were not carried out

Because this sailmaker regards himself as an "international professional" his fee to look at the sails on the boat would be as quoted from his email one week after the meeting

"On the Water sail trimming and rig tuning (not included in quote)
This service includes advice on rig tuning, sheet and halyard tensioning, selecting headsail car positions for varying wind sea conditions, yacht tuning and helm balance and general advice on sail care and handling.
The cost of this service is $250.00 plus GST. Travel time to/from boat is additional at $85.00 per hour. Bookings are essential. If due to weather conditions the booking will be rescheduled to the next available date."

I was not asking for advice i wanted him to see how poorly they set , he has never seen these sails on a mast.

The only job done was that the leechline cleats were stitched on he made an attempt at draft strips of which only 1 strip to genoa , working jib and half a strip on the main , it was his opinion that's all that was required even though we had agreed to 3 strips per sail
He agreed to affixing red strips as i saw some on sydney 38's and thought they would match the hull

To add insult to injury when i picked up the bags of sails they were laying in the same place as i left them on his floor just inside the main door and on opening it looks like they have been danced on
The sails that had been taken out of their bags were doubled head to foot and roughly flaked now the have more creases than my 40 yo sails...apart from ignorance i think this is just spiteful after all surely an "international professional " would show more care and skill when handling new sails

Oh and guess what the mainsail is not class legal with its implications regarding CBH it alone makes the sails not fit for intended purpose as it is stated on the order they are for "high performance racing

As a result of his actions i have been left with no other alternative than to formally request a refund on all of the new sails and the work carried out on my old genoa.
If the refund is not made within 7 days i will commence an to the Civil Claims List of the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal under The Victorian Fair Trading Act 1999 and the Australian Consumer Law 2010 for a resolution of the dispute seeking appropriate orders and reimbursements for both goods and costs of return visits incurred.
I understand that even if VCAT is sympathetic to my case , getting the refund may take further action through the Magistrates court something i will be fully committed to but i believe that people like this should not be allowed to get away with this type of shonky business

The sad thing out of all of this is all i really wanted was a good quality Australian made product made by someone with experience with the class
Someone local so i could have an ongoing relationship over the ensuing years
At no point was the cost of the sails bartered on , i was happy to accept the price quoted with no argument
I have missed the start of the season and unlikely to to have replacements ready before the next season and it has sapped my enthusiasm for sailing
At my age and condition the frustration , stress and strain is something i could quite happily done without .

You guys have fair trading down there?
recently I bought some motorcycle tyres that did not work as they should.
the law states " you are to be able to use the product purchased to which it was intended" (something
like that.)
he has to reimburse you.
In my case , I contacted fair trading and they paid him a visit. the tyre sales guy called me up and I came in and got refunded. Hopefully it's that's simple for you.
luckily in oz people don't get away with this ****. Too much cotton wool.
good luck. I'd be spewing.