Is this a trailer sailer you are going to keep at home?
If so what car do you have and do you have storage space for a boat?
By ocean going what do you mean?
Where do you sail?

TwoSheets said..
I'd like to buy a sailing boat, with the following criteria;
- budget under $30,000
- ocean-going
- quite fast, so maybe a racer-cruiser
- probably a trailer-sailer, unless it turns out mooring costs are less than I think
- able to sail solo
- sleeps at least two adults comfortably
- durable and low-maintenance

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

I would suggest you forget about trailering and buy this Arpege. It's just as easy to start off with a top class boat. Worry about a mooring after.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/trinity-park/sail-boats/31-foot-yacht-dufour-sailboat-ready-for-new-adventures/1189231601

Sounds like you need to make time to get out to a local club for a social sail. There is a trailer sailer club also.

Towing a TS from kenmore doesn't sound like fun. Some clubs can offer trailer parking where you can leave the mast up. This may increase your chances of taking it out.

The advantage of a TS is you could tow it to the whitsundays then launch at the preferred sheltered places.

Big TS will struggle to stay under 1.8T especially if you add gear. This causes headaches with trailer compliance along with tow vehicle choice.

You could investigate a swing moring in the southern parts of morten bay. You then have to deal with tender out to the boat and you may like to check on your boat occasionally.

Another option could be some small kind of day sailing TS/ sports boat/ off the beach cat that you can easily tow from home and budget for a bare boat charter every year or two.

All options have pro's and cons but crewing with a club could help you decide what you want.

Ramona said..
It's still on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/31-foot-Yacht-Dufour-Sailboat-perfect-for-any-sailing-adventure/223053009178?hash=item33eefed11a:g:6f4AAOSwh8NbQwjb

Nothing like a Noelex 25 though. Trailer sailers have a lot of advantages but a lot of disadvantages too.

Does the Noelex 25 I linked to look reasonably priced? I've looked it over and seems in good condition. No idea what I'd be looking at in, for example, sail quality though.

gyccrewman said..
Sounds like you need to make time to get out to a local club for a social sail. There is a trailer sailer club also.

Towing a TS from kenmore doesn't sound like fun. Some clubs can offer trailer parking where you can leave the mast up. This may increase your chances of taking it out.

The advantage of a TS is you could tow it to the whitsundays then launch at the preferred sheltered places.

Big TS will struggle to stay under 1.8T especially if you add gear. This causes headaches with trailer compliance along with tow vehicle choice.

You could investigate a swing moring in the southern parts of morten bay. You then have to deal with tender out to the boat and you may like to check on your boat occasionally.

Another option could be some small kind of day sailing TS/ sports boat/ off the beach cat that you can easily tow from home and budget for a bare boat charter every year or two.

All options have pro's and cons but crewing with a club could help you decide what you want.

Thanks, that's all good advice. It's all getting so complicated though -- I was just going to buy a boat and go sailing. Your right, towing something like the Noelex 25 from Kenmore would be no fun, and I imagine it would take time and assistance to rig it before getting on the water. So now I need to consider storing it on or near the water, in which case it needn't be a trailer sailer. I shall do as you advise and go somewhere I can talk to experienced sailors. Despite my novice stars this isn't a pipe dream -- I will be getting a sailing boat of some sort in the near future.

Cheers,

Matt

OK , I live Just up road to you and travel to Jacobs Well /Woongoolba every week to sail . 40 mins. almost all highway , as you know.
This not towing though.
If wanting to know about Noelex boats go to trailersailerplace forum. There are a couple of good members with Noelex boats.
Trailer sailers are great for.
1.Ability to have boat at home for maintenance.
2. Being able to pack boat at home for trips.
3, No antifouling needed
4. No mooring/pen fees
5. Hitch it up and take anywhere in Aust. by road eg. Whitsundays or Lake Macquarie ,leave car and trailer in secure place and spend hols. On water.
6.usually outboard motor means lower fuel and maintenance. costs
7. Can use as caravan whilst on road
8.You can drop mast anytime for maintenance.
9. You can drive right up on beach ( almost ) by raising keel so no need for tender. Give the keel a scrub whilst there if On hols.
10. You run aground , You lift the keel and motor off.
If storage at home not practical I would store at Horizon Shores Mast up .They will also put in the water and take it out for a fee when you want it or you do yourself. and you can work on it on the hardstand. I have not checked out yacht clubs for hardstand storage so cannot compare.
Trailer Sailers handicaps are.
1. Narrow to comply with Austria's road rules . Stupid rule that is unique to Aust.
2. See 1 lack of cabin space plus Keel box intrudes into cabin to lift keel.
3. Usually very light ballast to displacement compared to keelboats so I would be wary Going far offshore but there again a lot go the Whitsundays each winter.
4. Need to launch boat/ raise mast etc.etc. at a busy launching ramp and do reverse to take out.
5. Need to maintain trailer .
6. Need car big enough to tow.
Keel Boat
1. Personally I would not muck around with swing moorings but each to their own. The advantage of a pen is you hop on ,start motor and away you go. Also security .
2. Keel boats are in most cases more stable .
3. In most cases safer at sea if you were looking to do longer trips.
4. Need more Maintenance and costs much higher. Eg. Antifoul including liftout/liftin $2000 plus every 18 months or so.
5.Pen fees for under 10 metres around 5grand pa.
6. Have a keel boat at YC would be more sociable
The huge advantage of a Noelex that I see is that they are fully depreciated on the market now and will hold their price if well maintained . They are also a great boat.
It really depends on what kind of sailing you want to do.

TwoSheets, I went through this exact same process 9 years ago. T/S or keelboat, power or sail, moored or berthed. In the end it came down to how easy it was to go sailing. Plus, I only had $10k. So that limited me even further.

Plus, I don't live too far from either Sydney harbour or Pittwater/Broken Bay, so towing wasn't a biggie. Rigging was, as was storage and wash down after a day out.

We've now had our $10k Top Hat 25 for 9 years. Over that time she's been up and down the local coast a few times, but mostly weekends and day sails in Pittwater/Broken Bay and Brisbane water. We still haven't seen all of it. She gets anti-fouled once every 18 months, regular checks on the rig and most of the standing and running rigging has been gradually replaced. Mooring and Rego fees are pretty reasonable and I'd estimate over 9 years she's cost a total of $30k - $35k to buy, keep and maintain. Sure, she's not the prettiest boat in the bay, but she's easy to sail single handed, can handle a blow and Top Hats have been around the world and around Australia many times.

It takes 30 minutes to drive to Careel Bay. 10 minutes to row out, 10 minutes to open the boat and get her ready to go. It takes 10 minutes to pack her down, put up the nets and 10 minutes to row back to shore. 30 minutes back home. The only other thing I do is load and unload a rooftop dinghy.

If I had to drive to the bay, rig a mast and launch, I'd probably go less than the twice a month I've averaged recently. So consider how often you want to go, who you want to take and what you can get for your money these days. Oh, and consider whether you want to race. I don't, and won't ever. Not really my thing.

Enjoy the research though and don't be put off by the naysayers. Either way, a keelboat or trailer sailer, the view when you're sitting at anchor at sunset will be exactly the same as the bloke on the multi-million dollar gin palace

Ramona said..
That Noelex does look like a particularly nice boat. Like most trailer sailers it looks like it's a bit of a trailer queen. I had a trailer sailer during the trailer sailer boom in the early seventies and they do have lots of advantages especially if you wife is into that sort of thing. However I would suggest spending some time at a trailer sailer sailing/yacht club on a race day and check on the people in the rigging area. Play spot the wife! Generally wives play along for awhile but they tire quickly of the manhandling of the boat ashore, rigging the mast etc or standing about in the water holding the boat while you fetch the car. Most boats you see racing will have a crew of mates and they are always looking for new crew. Trailer sailers parked in the clubs parking area will usually have grass growing up through the trailer!
Keel boat on a mooring starts to look very attractive. There is the problem of finding some place to keep it and the annual slipping etc that they require. Wives tend to prefer just steeping aboard and unfurling the sails and off you go. An inboard diesel with a shaft drive will be far cheaper to live with than an outboard motor and the smell of petrol.
That Noelex is well priced but it's still only 25 feet long and 8foot 2 inches wide. That Arpege is 31 foot and well fitted out for half the money.
If I had to choose between my Currawong 30 and an Arpege I would be going for the French boat!

Without hijacking the OPs post even though I have a TS for specific reasons and love my weekly solo sailing if I were even 5 years younger I would have sourced a keel boat around the 27/32 foot mark (half tonner) that had all the basics and was in sound condition. Fractional rig , lead keel and I would have put it in a pen. Notwithstanding a Noelex or Farr TS are pretty damm good for a 25 foot boat and a Trailer Sailer can't hide any problems like an old keeler can.
The age of the Arpege would put me off. I don't know how long fibreglass lasts but 50 years is getting up there . For a 30 year old keel boat around 30 feet for under $30,000 I personally would budget for around $20,000 over two years to bring it up to scratch unless one was lucky to get a boat with relatively new sails,rigging,engine let alone things like keel , hull refurbishment ,electrics . especially if Ocean Going. Sure you can cross your fingers and head off without doing anything.
Non straight out sport trailer sailers in Aust. are not as popular thesedays. Rob Legg of RL boat fame said winning the America's cup in 83 killed the TS boat industry in Aust. but did not explain why. There are some crackers being produced in France and USA thesedays but none in Aust.
China is getting in on the act as well.
Anyway...just get on the water ,hey.

I would second gyc's recommendations. I think you are diving way to deep.

If you dont know what to look for on land then question is what are you going to do on the water let alone offshore. Its all good to have big dreams but the ocean is merciless to the unprepared.

I love the fact your keen as mustard but just pull back a bit, rein in the ego and start a with a bit of experience first. Its hard to let someone be the boss but its the best way to learn by watching others with good hard earned experience.

A crewing course at a yacht club is a great experience and place to start. Mix it with different clubs to see what you like.

I did a crewing course on a keelboat which I totally enjoyed but ended up with a beach cat after hiring one a few times. They are fast, affordable, easy to learn on, easy to tow and I can handle it by myself. YMMV but whatever you do get some cheap experience first.