Hi guys, got the boat out of the water, was suprised how wide and flat the thing is and how big it is once its out of the water

Would this be stable enough to take out to sea? Could it cross the atlantic?

Thanks

Tim

Tim,
You have got yourself a hot yacht at a bargain price. That boat can fly and the general rule of thumb is that the faster a yacht is, the more seaworthy it is.

Your question was is it "stable enough" to cross the Atlantic. Well if you WANT to cross the Atlantic you will have to cross the Indian or Pacific Ocean first.

Re:- "Stability". This a core subject of Naval Architecture, very technical and often misunderstood. The type of hull form of your boat has a very high initial stability which at a certain angle of heel will diminish sharply. Whether it would complete a 360 degree roll (ie come back up again) or stop at 180 degrees (ie remain upside down), I am not qualified to say. If the keel snapped off during the roll over, I can almost certainly say it would remain upside down.

I hope I haven't scared you off already.

The boat allegedly comes from the Van De Stadt design stable, from which my boat, a VDS 34 has come. A very different boat from yours but a VDS.

The Van De Stadt Design Office has a very high reputation for fast and seaworthy yachts. Your yacht appears to be a "Black Soo" (it is painted black) and it most likely is. The "Black Soo" is one of their most famous designs. I think you might have bought a collector's item!!

Is that boat capable of crossing the Atlantic?? It really doesn't matter at this stage does it? Is it capable of crossing Sydney Harbour?? If not make it so.

If you bring that boat back to seaworthy condition, ie fix everything up that needs fixing, I believe you will then have a yacht that is capable of sailing the east coast of Australia and beyond. The question will then be "How capable are you?"

My advice is for you to forget about everything else but the task at hand. You have the boat on a slipway at the moment and the owner of the slipway is not going to let you keep her there indefinitely. Other people have boats that need slipping too.

You need to closely inspect the hull below the waterline after it has been cleaned off. Check for any degradation of the hull material and it's protective coatings. Check the keel and it's fastenings. Check your rudder and it's pintles and gudgeons(the pins the rudder pivots on and their bearings). If everything is sound or only needing minor repair, the repairs can be effected, the hull coated with anti foul and the boat put back in the water.

That would be fine if you just want to store the boat on the mooring. I have to suggest to you that if you want do some proper sailing, the boat needs a bit more than a quick slipping and antifouling.

By the look of the photos, the chain plates need repair or replacement. These are the plates bolted to the hull, to which the shrouds which hold the mast up, are shackled.

Given that and all the cosmetic work (sanding, timber repair, priming, fairing, more sanding, undercoating and at least two topcoats) that needs doing, you should give serious consideration to having the boat lifted out of the slipway cradle and put into the hardstand yard. It will be a lot easier and quicker to do the work there than with the boat on the mooring. A suggested budget for all that needs doing is $5,000 to $7,000.

The photos you posted are great and I can assure you that if you get this boat back into good nick, you will have an extremely exciting yacht to sail. Cheers Cisco.

Chain plates where you said. Rust not good.

The Black Sue's (Soo's) I remember were around the 25foot mark. They were pretty basic looking boats but they were also pretty quick for the time. I never knew Black Soo's were a Vandestadt design. I cant imagine there would be too many left now.

Thanks for the support of this project Peter and advice about finding out her history.

Boat needs countless hours to fix, every bit of hardware on the cabin and windows need re sealing. I keep finding new parts that need work and things like new rigging would cost so much $$$.

The ropes look old and grey, i was told very expensive to replace, the guy who sold me the boat said the ropes will go another 10 years and only need a clean, however the guy repairing the rot in the roof said all the ropes could have had it. He said this boat has not been sailed for a long time and the sun damages the ropes. All the sales are ok though.

The boom has been welded at some point and the attatchments need re rivetting on but i hope all fixable.

It a big project for a novice and one where I do not know if i am sending good money after bad especially as it has so many leaks on the roof.

Take a look at these pics, you can see the typical problems I keep finding every day.





I am sure most people would not want the stress of doing this boat up so dont been too envious . I think this thing was on her lat legs before I got talked into buying her by the salesman.

I love the shape of this boat so much and hope that this thing is fixable and I dont have to cut my loses without every getting to sail her like she should be sailed.

Cheers

Tim

There is a lot of work to do Tim, but I think what hoop said is a good way to go.

Hi Tim, Looks like you are making some progress. Are you happy enough with the boat builder and his work?

Re the cockpit floor. If it was me, I would chop the old floor out, take the styro blocks out, do whatever repairs and painting needed under the cockpit, replace the blocks and put a new floor in. You will need a tarp to put over it while the work is in progress. You don't want the rain to fill the boat and sink it.

Fibreglassing over the new floor and up the sides of the cockpit is probably a good idea too. Cheers Peter.

Interesting question about the boat repairer Cisco
I was looking at the repair job as i scrolled down the page
all though I know that will work didnt really understand why he did it the way he did, seemed to me he may have drilled a few more holes than needed but Im not on the boat so maybe theres something Im not seeing
Hate to See Tim is it taken out with the tide

Thanks for advice Peter and Multihull, the whole is patched up and bonded in with epoxy, it had evedure on it also. I bought the materials fom a shipwright. Its using marine ply so is using good materials, I hope it looks ok when its finished.

All the extra bits of wood are to hold it in place while the epoxy sets, its very easy to fill an holes later so he has not drilled too many holes as far as i can see.

The boat repairer is mounting the sail organiser block back from the hole, he has made some teak bits to put on the inside which he says will fit the style of the boat.

Will post more picks as its completed. Hope it ends up looking ok, at the worst I can always re locate the sail organiser blocks later.

Put a tarp over the boat to stop and leaks until things are re sealed.

Boats looking quite dry inside now finally.

Still a lot of work to do before this boat is anywhere near ready to sail, plan on re epoxying every inch of the inside of the hull which means removing and replacing all or most of the cockpitt floor. Should be pretty solid then.

Still not sure what to do about the styrene blocks, the boat builder said chuck them out becuase they only trap water, but I thought they were thee for boyency? or for a reason? Any thoughts what i should do with them?


Cheers

Tim

To answer your first question this boat could take you around the world. A guy called Craig left Mooloolaba some years ago in a Tophat 23 and sailed it to Canada via South Africa.
The first time and only I stepped on the toe rail 'Sea cow' as it was called heeled over by a foot and I thought no way would I go anywhere in the open ocean on such a 'tender' boat. Craig proved me wrong. The first two times he left Mooloolaba he threw up so much he came back. On his third try he got to Bundaberg, then made it to Mackay, Townsville, Thursday Island and Darwin before sailing to SA. He said he was lucky to do 4 knots ground speed but he got there. He admitted later he left Canada against all advice, at the height of storm season and was rescued mid atlantic by a freighter after Seacow started breaking up around him.

That was a remarkable story about Craig Phillipson who set off from Queensland in his 23ft yacht, (it was actually a Hood 23, not a Top Hat), Cruising Helmsman had some articles on him, & he tells of the mistakes he made in CH March 2005.
He got a long way (Qld to Darwin across Indian Ocean to Sth Africa, then to Canada via the Caribbean) in a Hood 23.

Many lessons to learn from his mistakes for anyone interested in cruising on a small yacht, on a tight budget.

NightCap



www.tophatyachts.org

cisco said...

How goes the refurb Tim. We haven't heard from you in a while. Are you still kicking.

Hi Peter, yes still kicking this boat. Have put in about 35 hours this week on her but all from inside my gagare, have not been out on the water for 7 days now.

Last time i was on the boat i decided to rip the whole door assembly out and the door posts as well as the top of the roof that the door slides under. About 1/2 a bucket of mud was stuck under it and blocked the drain wholes forcing water to over flow into the cabin. Have left it for a week with tarps over it and so far no rain, some of the side horizontal bits have some rot in them but nothing that cant be filled. This has been a massive job for me as the whole thing needs to be totally taken apart and refitted but after its all done it should be as good as when the boat was built.

Seems to be going ok so far but removing the old gritty paint is a tough job even for my black and decker belt sander. Will bond and screw them back on the boat in about 1 week when all the coats of epoxy and paint have dried.






This is part of the roof that the hatch slides under.

Here is the top of the hatch, the fibre galss was in good condition and no rot.



Here is the wooden bit that sits on top of the door, its come up quite well with a good sanding.



The verticle door frame was pretty rotten and was originally 2 prices of wood so i decided to make some out of one thick bit of wood which I think will be stronger and better against water.







Also have almost finished the rear hatch which will have a solar powered fan put in soon. This has been a lot of work.




So nothing too exciting to look at but when all these bits go back on the boat I hope the door will stop leaking.

With the door frames, is it best to bond them to the boat using Epoxy of Sikaflex? They were very hard to get off and had been boneded on tightly??

Not sure which way to bond them.

Will take some pics of the boat before I put these parts back on.

This is a long slow job and i have been pretty lucky that apart from the door frames all the parts are in good condition.

Will keep you posted with my slow progress and have some more interesting pics soon.

Cheers

Tim

Tim, Cisco is pretty well right with all his quotations.

My uncle has a similar one,

"Owning a boat is a bit like standing in the shower tearing up $100 bills."

Although for my money, you can have a whole lot of fun tearing up that money and you can't take it with you!

Mick

Tim, now that I look more closely at that boat, I think I recognise it as one I looked at as a "perhaps", If you got it from Jonothan at Regatta Sailing, it's definitely the one. The lovely bride wanted something that was ready to sail even though it needed a tidy up, so we ended up with a $10k Top Hat Mk III.... We've not had to do too much to her so far, but will need to rig at some stage, as well as shout a new set of sails and running rig. The hull deck and interior however are strong, if a bit on the untidy side, but all eminently sailable from day 1. So far, fingers crossed, we've got a good solid, if a little dated and slow, boat that will last for some time without too much work.

BTW, where are you moored?

Michael

Peter, will do, stay tuned.

Tim, keep pluggin mate, you'll get there and you'll have a ball doing it.

Michael

Been working every day on the boat and making slow but steady progress, the rear starboard side rot has been repaired. I sanded it back flush to the boat and shapped it, after its painted it will be realy hard to see. Dave (who repaired the hole) managed to save all the fibre glass in the transum (repair went about 12 inches down).




Here it is covered with epoxy and sanded back.




have been completly restoring the whole of the door area, its been a massive amount of work, things are comming on sloly, hope to have it all back on the boat after 10 days.




I fiound many places where i needed to fill and strngthen, its been a big job but will be worth it. Also removed the old toe rails from the boat and it looks 10 times better without them. Looks much more stream lined now. Took hours to get the old rusty screws out a combo of angle grinder, mower grips and hammer/punch and luckily the fibre glass was pretty strong around the edges.





Latest thing I did was remove the sail traveller bar which went across the cockpitt, took the whole thing home and spend over 4 hours carefully cutting the long 150mm rusted bolts out so i could take it all apart and re epoxy it.

I want to use longer screws and add some metal mounting plate to the bottom but need to find new bolts about 180-200mm long preferably with an allen key head.

Can anyone recommend a decent place who cam make custom bolts the will not rust?

Thanks for any advice guys, this boat is so much work but comming along well!

Cheers

Tim