batteries.

9 years ago
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Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
1 Apr 2017 9:37am
Ive got this large-ish battery . 130ah. its pretty new havent used it much. Im trying to charge the thing and it wont seem to go above 12.9V. I know nothing about batteries. I think i left a radio on for a few days and this de charged it a bit - to a bout 10V No panels to get it back up. Probably stuffed it? i would have thought a few days with the radio on would be ok?
southace
southace
SA
4803 posts
SA, 4803 posts
1 Apr 2017 10:57am
Depends on what charger iif its a multi stage charger some start with a trickle charge slowely over a 6 hour period before putting in the 14.4 volt charge. The test is once the charger has gone to float load the battery up and time it till it gets down to around 12.2 volts.
zilla
zilla
145 posts
145 posts
1 Apr 2017 9:04am
It may take a couple of days to recover and fully charge it so I would not worry too much yet. Just leave it on charge (assuming you have a decent charger). Just check it every couple of hours to ensure it doesn't overheat.
Karsten
Karsten
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
1 Apr 2017 12:10pm
If I was you, in that circumstance I'd be quite optimistic that I could get it back.

Southace's is right, depends a bit on your charging source - is it an alternator or AC charger?

Sometimes I hate these multi-step intelligent chargers. I just want to set the charger voltage to a max value, set a current limit I like, and monitor it myself until I'm happy with its charged state. Think it's time I did another search to get something like that.
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
1 Apr 2017 11:53am
the charger doesnt have a volt meter on it. battery is currently at 12.8 V. ive been trying to get this charger up above that for a few weeks. I think the charger is pretty crap. just has the , low, med, high, full lights which doesnt really tell me much!
Trek
Trek
NSW
1213 posts
NSW, 1213 posts
1 Apr 2017 6:01pm
If the battery went down to 10V that indicates a possible shorted plate and the battery could be dead. A 12V battery is six 2V cells. If one fails you are down to 10V immediately.

Then the charger tries to drag up the remaining 5 cells which could get you 12.9V on the terminals while its trying to charge it. Then you take the charger off and the volts collapse down again.

If you can leave the battery unconnected for a day then measure it, that will tell you the truth. Its the so called "at rest" state. If its back down to 10-11V probably stuffed. if its over 12V maybe savable.
WazzaYotty
WazzaYotty
QLD
302 posts
QLD, 302 posts
1 Apr 2017 7:00pm
The "open cell" or "resting" voltage of a fully charged 12v lead acid battery is around 12.8-12.9 volts, and flat dead ones are at 12.0 volts, so 12.4 volts on a resting battery means it's about 50% charged. Charging voltage will be 14.4 - 14.8V during the bulk charge, depending on your type of wet battery. Be sure to select the correct type of battery ie gel, lead acid, AGM or calcium, which will be stated on the battery label.
When you finish charging you will need to let the battery settle for a few hours as it gasses up and heats up during charging before you can measure it accurately as it will drop after you turn the charger off.

If it's presently sitting at 10V it is very, very sick and you will need to charge it hard to try to recover it. If it has a dead cell it's a goner. You can test if a cell has died with a Specific gravity tester which are are cheap as chips at Super Cheap Auto or wherever.
Just make sure before you charge that the electrolyte levels are right in each cell by topping up with distilled water if necessary so the plates are covered and then use a quality 3 or 4 stage smart charger. These chargers analyse the state of the battery and then ensure the right voltage is applied for each stage of charge. The bigger ones ( that charge quickly because of their output power) aren't cheap though!

With the greatest respect, a decent multimeter allowing voltage testing and current testing up to 10 Amp DC would be a good investment and they are not expensive nowadays. $20 will buy a basic one and $80 a pretty good one. Amaxing how many times it will sort out what's going on.
If you have a fair bit of electrical gear try to source a 2nd hand copy of Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual". It is awesome, as are all his books, and you don't need the latest edition either!!! Don Casey and John Payne are similarly excellent boat maintenance authors.
Hope it goes OK
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
1 Apr 2017 8:19pm
Thanks you guys. I've taken the battery off the charge about 4 hours ago. Volt meter is showing battery at 12.8v. It's an Agm deep cycle.
woko
woko
NSW
1802 posts
NSW, 1802 posts
1 Apr 2017 10:08pm
Hmmm, I checked the water in our battery bank today and was shocked at the amount of water that was needed. I don't keep a log on that sort of thing but maybe I should ! The volts have been looking good but not many useable amps. Volts unfortunately don't tell the whole storey .
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
2 Apr 2017 8:27am
Batteries been off the charger for about 15 hours and still at 12.8v on the multimeter.
Trek
Trek
NSW
1213 posts
NSW, 1213 posts
2 Apr 2017 8:58am
Thats a passable voltage like Wazza mentioned but also like Woko said the voltage might be OK but the battery may have no remaining capacity.

To explain that, imagine if you had 9 AA pen light batteries connected in series (like Xmas tree lights) you would get 13.5V (9 x 1.5) which as a voltage looks very nice but wont start a motor! You've got volts but no amps.

The next thing to do to decide if the battery is dead is put a load on it and see how long it takes to discharge. You could use you nav lights as a load. Put your meter onto its 10A range and connect it in series with the battery and the nav lights and see how much current they draw. Say the current is 3A. If the battery really is 130AH in capacity and its OK it should keep those nav lights on for 130/3 hours - ie. the battery should stay above 12.0V for around 40 hours.

Ive got all kinds of battery testing stuff at my office in Parramatta, you could bring it over and we can test it with a 30A electronic load we use which would be quicker. (130/30 = 4 hours).

I threw out two 130AH AGMs a couple of years ago because they had the same symptoms your batteries got. I bought two new brand name ones on Ebay and they have been fine ever since.
BlueMoon
BlueMoon
866 posts
866 posts
2 Apr 2017 7:44am
Before I set up my 40w panel on a permanent mount, I use to kill batteries as if they were giving them away for free.
my problem was just putting the 40w panel out in the sun at anchor was not enough to keep up with the use of them and the gradual discharge over time, with out a recharge.
After the panel was permanently installed it solved the battery killing problem.
If you find that battery is kaput (I reckon it will be ok), apparently its better to have one large battery, of the biggest capacity you can afford, rather than two smaller batteries, for a KISS approach on a small boat that doesn't need a separate starting battery.
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
2 Apr 2017 10:01am
Trek said..
Thats a passable voltage like Wazza mentioned but also like Woko said the voltage might be OK but the battery may have no remaining capacity.

To explain that, imagine if you had 9 AA pen light batteries connected in series (like Xmas tree lights) you would get 13.5V (9 x 1.5) which as a voltage looks very nice but wont start a motor! You've got volts but no amps.

The next thing to do to decide if the battery is dead is put a load on it and see how long it takes to discharge. You could use you nav lights as a load. Put your meter onto its 10A range and connect it in series with the battery and the nav lights and see how much current they draw. Say the current is 3A. If the battery really is 130AH in capacity and its OK it should keep those nav lights on for 130/3 hours - ie. the battery should stay above 12.0V for around 40 hours.

Ive got all kinds of battery testing stuff at my office in Parramatta, you could bring it over and we can test it with a 30A electronic load we use which would be quicker. (130/30 = 4 hours).

I threw out two 130AH AGMs a couple of years ago because they had the same symptoms your batteries got. I bought two new brand name ones on Ebay and they have been fine ever since.


Thanks Trek. I might take you up on that offer if you dont mind in about a week. Ill be working in Dundas - nearby.
Ive just hooked the battery up using jumper leads to a motorcycle headlight. ive got the volt meter on as well. Instantly the battery dropped from 12.8 to 12.2 where its sitting now, its dropped about 2 amps in the last 30 min.
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
2 Apr 2017 11:32am
BlueMoon said..
Before I set up my 40w panel on a permanent mount, I use to kill batteries as if they were giving them away for free.
my problem was just putting the 40w panel out in the sun at anchor was not enough to keep up with the use of them and the gradual discharge over time, with out a recharge.
After the panel was permanently installed it solved the battery killing problem.
If you find that battery is kaput (I reckon it will be ok), apparently its better to have one large battery, of the biggest capacity you can afford, rather than two smaller batteries, for a KISS approach on a small boat that doesn't need a separate starting battery.


Yeah i had a 40w panel too that lived on the cabin top and i didnt realise straight away that at some point the regulator on the back had fried itself so wasnt charging . So now ive only got OB charging on board to charge the batteries. Ill be getting a few panels next week, getting ready for the cruise north soon. Ive really gotta sort this power stuff out as, so far its been quite a drag running out of power on trips.
Im thinking to hook up a panel with reg directly to each battery so they have there own charging via solar.
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
3 Apr 2017 5:13pm
THanks alot everyone for your words of wisdom, experiences and advice. Think im on top of it now.

Initially i couldnt get the battery above 12.8. well it did, but then it sat for a bit, with no load and i have been charging it again over a few days and it wouldnt go above 12.8. I put the motorcycle headlight which is about 60w on the battery and over about 3 hours the battery dropped from 12.20V to 12.09.
I then recharged recharged the battery and got it fully charged at 13.8 which is were it is now. But the battery loses some amps if it sits for a day. Is this what happens usually? Do batteries just drain if theres no trickle charge , or panel or something on them?
The battery seems fine anyway and im guessing that when i get a full time panel on the boat the battery will stay up. Hopefully :)
Jode5
Jode5
QLD
853 posts
QLD, 853 posts
3 Apr 2017 5:33pm
A battery will self discharge but over a long time. Like you can leave a car with a good battery sit for a couple of months and still start it. You should take your battery to a battery specialist eg Battery World or battery supplier and have it load tested. To me it sounds like the battery is bugged and is only holding a surface charge. I would look at investing in a good multi stage charger of at lest 15 amp. Rule of thumb the charger should be at least 10% of the battery. Eg. 110ah battery need at least an 11amp charger. A Good charger is a 20amp Zantrex True Charge, not cheap but you it will give a battery a good thump back to life and you will also have a good charger for life.
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