bukh two cylinder running on one!!

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
26 Jan 2014 10:12am
hi everyone. first post
I bought first yacht last week.. was neglected 4 years!!! mangrove jack at that.
engine ran fine at first.. then burst hose above waterlock which slightly melted!!
its blowing visible light blue smoke same idle or under way.
yesterday it started one cylinder, 2nd kicked in moments later. today its 1 cylinder only..
I'm flying to get my tools. be back Tuesday but I'm still overwhelmes re diesels and finding bukh specificstep by step trouble shoot and actual workshop manual.
it looks like dv20 or 24? supposedly 30 hp..
insights and questions much appreciated ..
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2575 posts
NSW, 2575 posts
26 Jan 2014 10:22am
theres a dealer / repairer or something in Caringbah if you get desperate. At least there used to be.
Dezman
Dezman
NSW
818 posts
NSW, 818 posts
26 Jan 2014 10:28am
Gidday des here from Valkyrie, I sold you that anchor winch last week. Sorry but your name has slipped my mind, sorry to here you are having engine troubles. Your not alone I'm stuck in a camp area waiting to get my car fixed next week 'clutch'. I was very lucky for my bonnet was only up 5mins and an NRMA came by and towed me to a camp site and workshop for $50.
As for your motor I recommend starting at the fuel tank and clean/ inspect every bit. Have your injectors cleaned too and I did't think there was much smoke when we went for a sailing lesson.
Hope you don't have to strip it down, oh and clean all your cooling system eg. Heat exchanger, and check your pumps too. As the engine has been sitting it may be clogged up in the cooling parts.
southace
southace
SA
4803 posts
SA, 4803 posts
26 Jan 2014 10:18am
Mate is it pumping water ?......if your water lock is melting I would start with that problem first obviously something is running way too hot. If its raw water cooling this can be a real problem if not flushed with fresh water after leaving for long periods. But don't panic yet .......check your fuel lines for splits , sample your fuel from your primary filter and furthermore make sure it's not overheating and pumping good water. Also check the stop pull is fully disengaged.

But if its only one cylinder it maybe injector , or head gasket.....if its blowing blue smoke this is a indercation of oil entering the cylinder which could be related to worn rings or pitted valves...but this also could only just be from the one piston overloaded doing all the work.

Good luck.

KemoSabe
KemoSabe
NSW
23 posts
NSW, 23 posts
26 Jan 2014 12:03pm
First thing to check is the condition of the oil for water contamination due to a blown head gasket. When it's running the simplest check for overheating is to put your hand under the the exhaust outlet and if the waters just warm that's O.K. If it's obviously too hot to leave your hand under then it's running too hot and you need to work your way through the cooling system starting from the seacock through to the raw water pump and right through to the exhaust elbow making sure the impeller is OK and there are no blockages in the lines. I once owned a Bukh 20 that over heated with steam coming out the exhaust and the problem turned out to be a small piece of scale that had come loose and was blown clear from the water blasting during a slipping and lodged up the line allmost completely blocking the passage of water to the pump. Also exhaust elbows when combined with salt water, carbon and heat will build up a residue that will eventually bring about an allmost complete blockage.
First things first. Whatever else is causing it to run on one cylinder you have a heating problem and you will have to rectify that anyway before you solve whatever other problems are or might be related to your missing cylinder and blue smoke issues.

mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
26 Jan 2014 3:09pm
yeah! thanks for replies and good to hear from ya dezman and everyone else.
I called up the previous owner, as he never had any of theseprobs buy has had new impellor fairly recent. I have receipts some work last year. at shop where it was serviced said could either be impellor or stck valve to overheat? I can't say if it overheated as just burst old hose. ah waterlock was supposed new also o.O. yeah that's where I should start at fuel tank.. I've already organised my kids to stay on boat few days so I've emailed that volvo boat garage to see if he could find a quick fix.. I learned to sail fairly, had another local sail and sold me a tender.. tis a slow yacht the mangrove :/ be a week 'til the kids go I will clean the engine and keep up the forum. thanks again
southace
southace
SA
4803 posts
SA, 4803 posts
26 Jan 2014 3:01pm
If he put a new impeller in recently you need to ask him what happened to the old one......if it failed its possible the blades are stuck in a elbow or water jacket which will restrict the water cooling the engine , if you have melting water jacket it's very evident your not pumping water. My mate (master5) med 2 run my little 1 cylinder without checking the sea cock was on....melted the water jacket and was lucky not to damage the engine.

You should have water squirting from your exhaust like a bit of hose pressure not a little dribble.

You don't need to muck around with the fuel tank to much just crack a hose and fill a glass with fuel and check it looks like diesel......if there is water the fuel will float to the top of the glass. I really doubt it is the fuel tank as one piston is firing .....

Anyway have fun and good luck.
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
26 Jan 2014 6:02pm
well there was enough presure to fill the bilge and saturate the carpet in the boat. the fuel filter (glass bowl thing) looks clean. I think all recent work done by shop. like $1200 worth only.. landed in melb airport. cosy in the railway section under a powerpoint. will keep you guys informed in a few days. dam! I just thought my metric socket sets gunna be useless if bukhs an imperial? its not surprising me, I'm ending up with new everything.
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
28 Jan 2014 4:03pm
marine guys just wants me to book in for few hours compression test. and overnight fuel injector...
I've read somewhere somehow filling cylinders with oil and see if can crank :/
see I called these brokers at marks point to see a yacht, sure c'mon up!!! I flew up, lo and behold the boat already sold long ago!!! I spent months preparation.. anyway as I was going to go back to melbourne these bassards called me up and pushed me to spend all my money on a acht I wasn't prepared for.. so all I have is maybe if this bukh be too much a problem then id have to plant my petrol ute engine in it!!! meanwhile I need to put put around
Outwest34au
Outwest34au
16 posts
16 posts
2 Feb 2014 6:11am
Been sitting, older style motor, moist environment, firing on one only.

Consider removing the tappet cover(s) and check the valves aren't sticking open a bit, they can get insignificant rusty/ crusty bubbles that form over time and hold them open or get sticky in the valve guides.

I've had older engines that would start and miss on a few cyls so with a small hammer you can tap the top of the valve stems as the engine runs to help them reseat. Then run a bit of oil through the intake to lubricate the stems if this is found to be the problem. It's good practice to ingest a bit of oil through the intake occasionally as periodic lube. And YES, make sure it isn't too much at once to make the engine 'diesel'.
bubble7777
bubble7777
QLD
191 posts
QLD, 191 posts
3 Feb 2014 7:43pm
I have uploaded the dv20 workshop manual here. hope it helps

drive.google.com/file/d/0ByPudmUjZep-b2NxUGFmZG9VNEk/edit?usp=sharing

Karsten
Karsten
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
3 Feb 2014 11:54pm
Very nice of Bubble - the workshop manual could be real useful.

The Bukh itself will be all metric bolts, but the other plumbing bits like fuel lines, tanks and wet exhaust parts may be either metric or imperial since they are not generally supplied with the engine.

One cylinder going would be enough to encourage me to try to get the Bukh working, since its a real, heavy marine diesel and will easily outlive you with a modicum of care.
HaveFun
HaveFun
NSW
201 posts
NSW, 201 posts
4 Feb 2014 7:36am
On my early volvo penta there is a 3 position lever. Usually it is tucked in and not noticed. raised into the middle position the engine compression is reduced. In the fully extended position only one cylinder works. It's purpose was to allow starting the engine by hand cranking easier (in flat battery situation). Once started the lever was folded back in and the second cylinder started up. I think this lever has been deleted from later versions as I doubt anyone starts these things by hand anyway.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
4 Feb 2014 11:25am
HaveFun said..

On my early volvo penta there is a 3 position lever. Usually it is tucked in and not noticed. raised into the middle position the engine compression is reduced. In the fully extended position only one cylinder works. It's purpose was to allow starting the engine by hand cranking easier (in flat battery situation). Once started the lever was folded back in and the second cylinder started up. I think this lever has been deleted from later versions as I doubt anyone starts these things by hand anyway.


Hand starting small marine diesel one has to consider is it worth the risk of breaking your arm, wrist or thumb in the attempt.

They are usually placed in such a crowded spot that you can't get a decent swing on it anyway. Then you really need two people to do it. One to crank it up to speed and follow through with the extra grunt on the compression stroke and one to flick the decompression lever when the cranker calls for it.

Most diesels have a geared cranking system (ie not directly on the crank shaft) and as they are higher revving engines, do not have a heavy enough flywheel to give momentum to the cranking to carry the rotation through the compression stroke.

There was no way I could hand start my little Yanmar 2QM 15. It would stop me dead half way up the compression stroke. I don't think I could have hand started it even if it was on a test bed in a workshop with all the room in the world to swing on it yet with only a half charged battery it would start every time.

I think the only diesels worth trying to hand start are those with big heavy exposed flywheels such as very old Yanmars, Volvos and of course the Bukhs. These engines are slower revving, have long strokes and therefore have huge torque which is just what you need on a yacht. This allows you to have large diameter and large pitched propellers.

These engines tend to thump rather than vibrate, usually are quite smooth in their running and usually very economical to run and usually last forever.

Stick with the Bukh, get it properly fixed, use it often and it will probably out last you.

Special thanks to bubble7777 for uploading the manual.
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
21 Feb 2014 8:45pm
yeah, wow.. been getting numbers to call then waited weeks for this guy only to find oit I need insurance to berth at nearby marina and all workberths are booked put for months.. finally got a number for mobile but he says it be a stuck valve and insists on reconditioning the whole head!!! so I take rocker cover off to see everything looking good. seems by hand cranking both cylinders have compression that wait a moment for hissing to stop to keep cranking. all valves and rods looking good.. so I will see what he says tomorrow when he comes for preliminary look at motor. its prolly water system clogged and possibly also fuel injector. the hell its so impossible to find a simple backyard diesel tinkerer to solve simple things that's costing me all the world to completely over recondition.. this just a solid 30 yr old motor done 4000 hours >.>
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
21 Feb 2014 11:49pm
Mangrovefrog, if the broker did as you say on your 28 Jan post they have acted illegally. Take it up to them forcefully, see the police for advice and try to get your money back. This boat could easily send you bankrupt. You get in, spend a bit and then a bit more and then keep going to avoid losing it all.
Make sure you have a plan and a point of no return, when you just walk away. The broker will know they have lied and will know they can be held to account if they have done as you said.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
21 Feb 2014 11:30pm
If the guy is good ie won't try to rip you off, he should first determine whether or not the valves are sticky in the guides and whether they are sealing on compression stroke.

If they are good he should then recommend at the very least that both injectors are removed and pressure and spray pattern tested and while that is being done it would be a good idea to remove the injector pump and bench test and calibrate it at the same time.

If the valves are not good, the cylinder head needs to be removed and it and the valves need to be reconditioned in the workshop AND the injectors and injector pump still need to be done as well.

However if the cylinder head is removed, before anything else is done the cylinder bores should be inspected and measured to determine if the engine needs new sleeves, pistons and rings and if it does you might as well pull the engine out for a full recondition.

If that is the case you should consider a new engine and not a Bukh. The only new engines Bukh are producing are the 24 hp model specifically designed for life boats.

A reconditioned DV 20 Bukh is going to cost you $8,000 plus fitting.

www.bukhdiesel.com.au/recons.htm

The same people also sell Beta Marine diesels.

www.betadiesel.com.au/#

If you do need to get another engine, I would go with the 20 hp 3 cyl Beta (incl gearbox) for just under $9,000 plus fitting rather than a recon Bukh. They are Kubota based and very well marinised in the UK. Whatever you do do not get a Nanni marinised Kubota. I had one and their marinising is crap.

So, best case scenario, you get your injectors and injector pump serviced/repaired. Second best scenario, you do that and have the head done up.

Worst case scenario, engine replacement. A 3 cyl Yanmar 3GM 30 would be a good option too but the heat exchanger model. Shop around. Stay away from the "Green Death" Volvos.
southace
southace
SA
4803 posts
SA, 4803 posts
22 Feb 2014 8:17am
Jumping the gun a bit fellers, this could be just a simple repair.....lets not confuse the bloke with what new engines he should buy or shouldn't. If he has compression it's matter of checking fuel injection to both cylinders next.
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
22 Feb 2014 10:24am
I really hope its simple.. I can almost think I could manage this. one can always kick himself in my predicament but sometimes its easier to go with the flow as there is a nutter with a god complex already influencing so we're just waiting for the threat to pass and police to clean up the mess. else more peeps would be appropriated in thar orchestration... I will be delighted say if I find an abandoned yacht out at sea then swap myself around..
now the problem with film of oil in the bilge.. coming from sump gasket. one fella told me to use a biodegradable degreaser and flush the mess out thru pump!! I already filled a jar with some crude but was all I could do to wrap it in plastic and hoped it didn't self combusted in the council.. if I had to do an oil change I suppose I drop used off at service stations..
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
22 Feb 2014 11:43am
southace said..

Jumping the gun a bit fellers, this could be just a simple repair.....lets not confuse the bloke with what new engines he should buy or shouldn't. If he has compression it's matter of checking fuel injection to both cylinders next.


Exactly what I said.

"So, best case scenario, you get your injectors and injector pump serviced/repaired. Second best scenario, you do that and have the head done up."
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
22 Feb 2014 6:44pm
mate, I'm gunna get kicked here..
turns out, in one of the aft cabins is an emergency fuel cut off cable that I must have kicked in my sleep
but waterworks is restricted and running hot so organised an acid treatment and new hoses.. good thing I get to know my way around the bukh as bruce went over it.
and maybe after 50 hours or 6 months it will need service and new fuel lines.
this forum and all the posts have been great and made me more aware of stuff around my floating motel room...
LooseChange
LooseChange
NSW
2140 posts
NSW, 2140 posts
22 Feb 2014 9:51pm
All's good that ends well. Now in the future if any other problems happen you will have a headstart where to maybe start looking for the fault.
claverton
claverton
NSW
165 posts
NSW, 165 posts
23 Feb 2014 10:50pm
Cisco, interested in your comments on the Nanni. Boat I've had for a couple of yrs came with a newish 3 cyl 21HP Nanni with only about 50 hours on the clock. What were your observations on shortcomings in the ''marinising'' and is there anything you suggest one should keep an eye on?
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
24 Feb 2014 4:21am
claverton said..

Cisco, interested in your comments on the Nanni. Boat I've had for a couple of yrs came with a newish 3 cyl 21HP Nanni with only about 50 hours on the clock. What were your observations on shortcomings in the ''marinising'' and is there anything you suggest one should keep an eye on?


The Nanni I had was a 4 cyl 43 hp donk in a 42 ft ex racing yacht turned into a charter yacht.

The base engine was a Kubota which are as good as you can get.

My criticism of the marinizing is that the heat exchanger/wet manifold is one piece with the body being alloy with a bronze or brass cooling bank up the guts of it and a cast iron mixing elbow on the outlet.

Different metals in a marine environment is asking for trouble.Probably the alloy and bronze/brass combination can be solved in the fresh water side by use of the correct electrolysis inhibitor but the cast iron mixing elbow is just crap.

The flow of salt water through it just sucked the guts out of the metal and it porous and very brittle. I had one fabricated from stainless. That worked well but past the mixer do not use stainless for a muffler/water trap or exhaust pipe. Hot salt water will chew it out real quick.

The worst thing about the Nanni marinizing is the way it is attached to the cylinder head on the exhaust side. It has about 6 inch studs on the top row that go through the heat exchanger and about 1 inch studs on the lower row.

On the lower row you have to use an open end spanner and there is only enough room to get one twelveth of a turn on the nuts. You can't see it and have to do it by feel. Turn the nut one twelveth, turn the spanner over and get another little bit. If the corners of the nuts get burred over, you have a real problem.

You might have to destroy the manifold to get it off.
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
24 Feb 2014 11:21pm
my water lock smoked up!!
I replaced an old hose that gone hard in case it gotten airleaks, tried to take off that 3-way pipe on the block, then screwed back on as id a had to remove the flywheel to pull it out...
sooo... I just sprayed wd-40 in both ends until dribbling back out.. cured the blockage .. saving me $900 quote to descale. lucky I kept the old waterlock that had partially melted but still had enough to bolt back on.
I noticed inside my air filter/strainer and in manifold has sooty black gritty gunk layered inside.. is that a problem?
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
23 Apr 2014 9:40pm
Well well, turns out the impellor was slipping as well as gasket being too thick.. new impellor made things run good enough to make way for melbourne.. made the trip in 8 days, lost a day at batemans bay what with wind and swell held my speed on the gps at 1 1/2 kph.. engine still needing attention, (oil and new salt leaks) but thanks for all the heads up.
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
24 Apr 2014 6:13pm
Hi Mangrovefrog
What part of Port Philip Bay are you moored in? if you need a hand some time give me a yell
mangrovefrog
mangrovefrog
VIC
80 posts
VIC, 80 posts
29 Apr 2014 9:18am
Hi,
actually, im in westernport.. i was meant to check out port phillip but ive got my 3 yo son with me. Nice heated pool in hastings teaching him to swim.
Im trying for a mooring this side, i have to watch my travels now wjth small kid onboard.. its a pity im broke, itd looks a long road to fix my rigging and oil leaks.
I need to know what to expect if i just pulled up and anchored around frankston? Or even beaumaris for a day? I wonder if im better off applying for a mooring that side even.
I cant read pdf's so i cant check where the public bouys are either.
My guess, in a year or two. I will drift to fiji, going to be a lil ferry boat...
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply