catamaran sailing - some tips please

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overtheseas
overtheseas
WA
13 posts
WA, 13 posts
12 Jan 2013 7:01am
Hi all. I've sailed my life in monohulls, having sailed around the world one and a half times in a classic timber 32 footer. Also around 200,000 ocean miles in a variety of other single hulled vessels ranging from viking ships to square riggers. Now contemplating doing some cruising in a large (40 to 50 foot) catamaran and the idea scares the #*^!! out of me!
Can someone with more experience give me some ideas on some of the practical sailing tips I'll need to convert my existing experience.
Besides the one about "don't do it!"
Donk107
Donk107
TAS
2446 posts
TAS, 2446 posts
12 Jan 2013 4:03pm
What concerns do you have with the Catamaran over a Monohull

Regards Don
Donk107
Donk107
TAS
2446 posts
TAS, 2446 posts
12 Jan 2013 8:49pm
My tip would be if it starts to heel like a mono in a strong breeze when sailing close to the wind you have a problem

Regards Don
Charriot
Charriot
QLD
880 posts
QLD, 880 posts
12 Jan 2013 10:58pm
Big Cat , and it's luxury is next level up. Handling iis very different. If you get a cat than learn the skill take full advantage. Turn on dime, anchor in shallow but each wave hit you twice. Get cat deliveries, get cat expert on board and sailing - easy and fast.
overtheseas
overtheseas
WA
13 posts
WA, 13 posts
13 Jan 2013 9:02am
Thanks Don, I suppose "seamanship" is the real issue. As I said I've taught all levels in traditional seawork but getting a better 'feel' for cats and what are their limitations. Some specifics-Do the same sail trim issues affect cats;is reefing the only way to depower a rig- in monos for example releasing the vang can cause the main to twist off and thereby release pressure near the top of the rig. I'm familiar with the concept of sailing low and fast (presently race an H28 I restored a couple of years ago and am doing pretty well). Another area of interest re cats- what about in larger swells and seas. I appreciate the ability of a light boat in accelerating rapidly. A big following sea is not the place to be going fast particularly if reserve buoyancy up forward isn't there to resist a nose dive or pitch pole. Use of a sea anchor has never been one of my favourite procedures, so is this a case of reefing hard and simply wallow along?
The concept of simply "getting experience" any way I can doesn't suit my present situation. I'm a mono sailor in a mono sailing world. I am simply looking to the future (maybe two years when I will have finished with my big classics and consider sailing with a partner!)
Cabron
Cabron
QLD
363 posts
QLD, 363 posts
13 Jan 2013 2:44pm
As you know cats don't really give you any feed back, so you really need to set sails by apparent wind, and understanding the boats polar is a must. They seem to like being over reefed, and loosely sheeted on the main. Even if it says 1st reef at 16-20, throw the first reef in at 15, you loose about 0.1knt, however the boat settles down, and feels much nicer.
As mentioned, going downwind, or following seas, you spend more time slowing them down, again over reef, and maybe bear off. Sea anchors, while some use...not recommended, in fact some brands specifiy not to use, will void insurance even.. can actually increase the chances of burying the bows...sea anchors can limit the bows from floating over swell.
Overall they are extremely safe boats, just feel very different from monos..recently was on a passage to NZ in a cat, had a bit of a blow, large confused seas...while 80% of the monos just hove-to, all the cats kept going..sure would have been best to turn and run with, however we just reefed down, close hauled, set the autopilot, went and made a coffee, sat in the saloon, spent the night watching for wind shifts/speeds, and course, and kept dry/warm.
Sure in super heavy weather, a mono would be a more comforting thought, knowing if you get knocked down, fair chance your going to roll up, however when cruising, you spend 98% of your time on anchor and the advantages of a cat are amazing.
You will learn heaps of little things that each cat likes with sail trim, and difference over a mono.
For example, having such a large beam, going downwind, instead of boom brakes etc, just a rode line off to a cleat and back to a winch..simple, easy and safe.
Again with a large beam, and long traveller, you can rig so you never touch the main sheet, just use the traveller..just simplifies things a little.
Flying a sym kite and gybing is the easiest thing in the world, and amazing feeling of cruising downwind, only a couple knts off true wind speed, super stable, none of that side to side rock, and worrying about accidental gybe of a mono.
Sail trim of course is a boat to boat difference, and your mono experience will come in handy, just try a small adjustment, feel the boat respond, with either speed increase or decrease, another handy one is to set autopilot, and watch the trim required to keep course, small adjust on sail, or balancing sails, suddenly zero trim input..they really do respond, just different ways of feeling it, it's not through heeling, or through the helm..
Overall, plenty of cats with wanna be sailors have sailed around the world, many times..normal rule that the crew will go to pieces before the boat does, just over reef, sail by apparent wind speed to boats specs, and possibly most important thing...keep your standing rigging up to scratch,

Yes, a bit of a rant..each to their own...just don't be put off by the old sea dogs that talk about safety of a cat, good chance they have never done any sea miles in one...
overtheseas
overtheseas
WA
13 posts
WA, 13 posts
15 Jan 2013 8:18am
Thanks Cabron- Much prefer a knowlegable rant to empty pith! Perfect response. Lots to get into my mind. As yet haven't got any distance towards buying a cat. Have yet to finish restoring and disposing my other classic monos. Probably another 18 months for all that. No reason not to get started early to think about it all. I have a friend with a large Crowther in Adelaide and another with a large production cat here in Fremantle so will see about getting aboard each for some practice.
Jay
Cabron
Cabron
QLD
363 posts
QLD, 363 posts
18 Jan 2013 3:58pm
One thing not stated yet, not all cats are suitable cats...
Firstly, you have to decide what you want to do with the cat, if its just for harbor crusing thats one thing, but by the sounds of it, you would actually want to go sailing...
Don't believe that production cats can't cross oceans either, just not all productions you would like to cross oceans in..
Bridge deck clearance is a huge deal, slapping of the bridge in a pain in the a$$, height/type of bows for buoyancy and cutting through waves, stern steps what types - useful or not, wet or dry.open or closed cockpits, open are nice at anchor, however following sea washing through cockpit sucks, mini keel or dagger boards- both work, dagger points higher, faster and better draft, however it takes room in the hulls, and most dont like beaching for hull work, rudder type/design, steering systems,engines mid or stern mount, access to them, separate or under berths, up or down galleys both have +&-, the list goes on...same as a mono, but twice as many systems and how they work together is really important.
Production boats are fine, just really depends on model, fit outs, and year etc, don't get convinced that you need a custom cat to be a good cat, while generally more expensive, doesn't mean it will always be a better boat...however their are some very sweet customs out there...

Some newer charter orientated cats, while feeling like a floating apartment, I wouldnt like to do passages in some, however in saying that, most are delivered by long passages, so yes they can do it.
Talk to heaps of cat owners and search forums, as with every boat, an owner always believes his boat is the best because of ....., then ask what they dislike about others...., after a while you will get an option of brands and models... There are many 15 year old cats I would prefer to sail than a brand new cat from the same brand.
Overall, I guess it is like any other boat purchase, it's all about compromise, budget and needs... I like to view boats by making a list of things I don't like about it, then compare negative lists, and what items you could tolerate. When you have the shortest list of things that you can't live with, that seems like the boat for you.....I know it seems pessimistic, however if you liked everything on a boat, then you wouldn't be able to afford it....
18 months away, is a great time to start looking at different boats, and start to get an idea of prices, types, brands etc etc...you know the story...not something you want to rush into...

Feel free to PM if you want any info, while I'm not a authority on boats, could give you some links to people that are...

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