inflatable post, more advice unethical supplier

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warwickl
warwickl
NSW
2360 posts
NSW, 2360 posts
10 Feb 2015 7:28pm
Further to my old post to buy an inflatable I purchased a Hyfield with welded seams and 5 years warranty. I did this with an Inflatable boat company based in Warners Bay (Newcastle ) . I needed the boat by the next day and was advised if I pay $100 express delivery it will arrive over night. If they could not have made this promise I would have bought elsewhere.
Guess what after some communication it arrived 3 days later.
I asked for my $100 back, it took them a few days advising delivery was ASAP deneighing over night.

I have now gone down the Fair Trading path with the out come unsuccessful at the first stage, now if I want to go further it will cost $47.50.

I am after advice on what I should do from here so help please to let them know they need to be ethical.

Only issue is their denial of the verbally promised express delivery being over night and not ASAP as they now claim. If was ASAP I would not have purchased it.



LooseChange
LooseChange
NSW
2140 posts
NSW, 2140 posts
10 Feb 2015 7:58pm
Mate, my experience with Fair Trading and NCAT tells me you aint gonna win, all you is gonna do is blow $47 on top of what you have already spent.

Best bet is to bad mouth that dealer to all and sundry, bastards like that deserve all the bad publicity you can drum up.

You need to remember, a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on.
sirgallivant
sirgallivant
NSW
1531 posts
NSW, 1531 posts
11 Feb 2015 1:10pm
All is lost........?
No, not at all.
Years and years ago l had a BMW bike and a bodged gear box repair worth over three grand by Motohansa.
I took them to the Motor Vehicle Industry Repair Council (l hope l got it right!?) in Five Dock on the recommendation of an insider, a friend of mine who was an NRMA examiner.
The whole exercise was f r e e of c h a r g e !
They made the repairer fix the problem to "t h e i r s a t i s f a c t i o n at h i s e x p e n s e". Which they did. To my satisfaction. This, whoever, and the attitude of Tom Byrnes later Procycle in St. Peters put me off BMW's for life thou.
So not all is lost.
Each industry in NSW should have something like a governing or licensing body which you or me could turn to in cases like yours. It is not widely known but it is there, l was told. Ask or ring around or Google the living daylight out of the subject, you will succeed.
In the mean time hit them where it hurts the most anywhich way you can.
They deserve your worst, no doubt.

In the future I would not buy a PVC inflate - like l did - but only a HYPALON one. They are expensive but last a lifetime even if you leave them in the Sun.

Be persistent, never ever give up! Cheers!
LooseChange
LooseChange
NSW
2140 posts
NSW, 2140 posts
11 Feb 2015 2:18pm
I don't think that the MVIRC still exists, if it does it will be in name only and all motor vehicle claims are handled through Fair Trading and if that fails then through NCAT.

warwickl will find that unless there is a contract with the claimed terms on it he will have buckley' chance of getting any satisfaction. It will be a classic case of "he said", "they said". Possibly the only argument he can put forward is to ask what the hell the extra $100 he paid were for if not for expedited delivery. I imagine at this point it degenerates into an explanation as to what constitutes expedited delivery.

By all means pay the $47 to go to NCAT and find out how little consumer protection you actually get these days.
andy59
andy59
QLD
1156 posts
QLD, 1156 posts
11 Feb 2015 1:44pm
You have a good case and would be likely to be awarded damages for breach of contract. Every state has a civil administration tribunal to hear small claims by unrepresented parties. in NSW it is NCAT http://www.ncat.nsw.gov.au/ncat/index.html

Remember the onus is on you to prove, on the balance of probability, either:
1) 2 contracts existed, one for the supply of the boat and the other for the overnight delivery; or
2) it was a term of the original contract that the boat would be delivered overnight;
3) there was a breach of the contract

The good news is that you only need to prove these points on the balance of probabilities which means more likely than not, or more than 50%. This is a very low bar and as the consumer traditionally you are more likely to be believed than a retailer.

The contract was probably partly written and partly verbal these types of contracts are enforced by the courts every day so don't worry about what you don't have in writing .

On the information you have provided it seems likely that the $100 was paid in consideration for the overnight delivery, it seems unlikely that you would pay $100 for a delivery that could take as long as 3 days.

What is most likely is that the retailer promised you overnight delivery in good faith, but the retailer and then the supplier missed the freight company's cut off times for overnight delivery.

The costs of lodging the claim are recoverable by the successful party. I think the retailer will settle at a pre-heating conference if you prepare your case thoroughly.

Good luck

HaveFun
HaveFun
NSW
201 posts
NSW, 201 posts
11 Feb 2015 5:54pm
The NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal has replaced all the former consumer and trade licensing tribunals. It's better than going to court for small fair trading claims but the fee is $47 ($94 if the purchaser is accompany) and of course it will take you time to prepare and lodge the documents and to turn up for the mediations and the hearing. And then you still have to enforce it through the Local Court if the trader doesn't comply. Not to mention the risk of the Tribunal believing the trader rather than your version of the conversation. Although it is hardly likely as wassaid to think someone would fork out $100 for something as vague as "soon as possible". So is it all worth it to get back your $100. If it is any consolation, the law is on your side. Regardless of the purchase contract, the $100 for "overnight" was either a separate oral contract or a representation. If it was a representation then you have a common law remedy for misrepresentation and a consumer legislation remedy for misleading and deceptive conduct. All well and good but is it worth your time and angst pursuing? Maybe it is.
warwickl
warwickl
NSW
2360 posts
NSW, 2360 posts
12 Feb 2015 12:29pm
Thanks guys for your constructive advice, I will do more research on the links and decide from there.
Stay tuned as I do not give up easy.
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
12 Feb 2015 1:29pm
I suspect that your issue is with the freight company and not the supplier. If you were charged for express freight and they dispatched the goods via an express freight service then they have completed their contract with you. See how you go harassing the freight company and leave the supplier alone. Enough bad words spread already over nothing.
warwickl
warwickl
NSW
2360 posts
NSW, 2360 posts
12 Feb 2015 2:08pm
Frant, Fair Trading confirmed my contract is with the boat company, I paid the boat company for the boat to be delivered overnight, l did not contact or pay the courier .
The boat company's contract is with its supplier. I do not know who organized the courier.

I would not pay $100 for 3 day delivery I would have bought elsewhere, I needed the boat delivered overnight to fit in with overseas visitors and this was explained a couple of times to the boat company.
RiffRaff
RiffRaff
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
12 Feb 2015 12:04pm
But Frant it isn’t over “nothing”, Warwickl Paid 100 dollars for a service which was not supplied. I don’t know about you but $100 is not just “nothing” to me.
I had a Life raft delivered from Sydney to Townsville in just 2 days for a fee of $60.00 and this was considered hazardous goods.
I would suggest the supplier had no intention of delivering overnight but made promises he couldn’t keep to make a quick buck.
Now the customer is $100 out of pocket and suffered the inconvenience of not being able to entertain his overseas visitors.
This is not “nothing” and the sooner retailers realise this and the sooner they are exposed for their poor service and deceitful practices the better off the consumer will be.
andy59
andy59
QLD
1156 posts
QLD, 1156 posts
12 Feb 2015 2:16pm
andy59 said..
You have a good case and would be likely to be awarded damages for breach of contract. Every state has a civil administration tribunal to hear small claims by unrepresented parties. in NSW it is NCAT http://www.ncat.nsw.gov.au/ncat/index.html

Remember the onus is on you to prove, on the balance of probability, either:
1) 2 contracts existed, one for the supply of the boat and the other for the overnight delivery; or
2) it was a term of the original contract that the boat would be delivered overnight;
3) there was a breach of the contract

The good news is that you only need to prove these points on the balance of probabilities which means more likely than not, or more than 50%. This is a very low bar and as the consumer traditionally you are more likely to be believed than a retailer.

The contract was probably partly written and partly verbal these types of contracts are enforced by the courts every day so don't worry about what you don't have in writing .

On the information you have provided it seems likely that the $100 was paid in consideration for the overnight delivery, it seems unlikely that you would pay $100 for a delivery that could take as long as 3 days.

What is most likely is that the retailer promised you overnight delivery in good faith, but the retailer and then the supplier missed the freight company's cut off times for overnight delivery.

The costs of lodging the claim are recoverable by the successful party. I think the retailer will settle at a pre-heating conference if you prepare your case thoroughly.

Good luck



Ha ha spell check strikes again, converting pre-trial to pre-heating
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
12 Feb 2015 5:03pm
Warwicki. You didn't answer the question. Did the supplier dispatch the goods via express delivery which is what you paid for? If yes then the supplier has fulfilled his contract, if not then maybe your objection is justified however bear in mind that delivery was accepted by you so a purchase inclusive of delivery has been made. Your case in my opinion is not worth getting in a huff over. However if you think that you won't finish up spending a huge amount of energy over nothing then you are welcome to do so and please ignore my advice.
Yara
Yara
NSW
1322 posts
NSW, 1322 posts
12 Feb 2015 5:23pm
I agree with Frant. As a supplier I know that the freight time is really out of my hands. The biggest carriers are monoliths, and have almost a monopoly, and there is nothing you can do about it. Nobody can absolutely guarantee a delivery time once the goods are in transit.

As a consumer, I am still waiting for a spare part from Europe that should have been here two weeks ago, but it is lost somewhere in the system.

Back to inflatables, I dont think you can still buy Hypalon. I hope I am wrong, but I think it is not manufactured any more. Another symptom of the modern cheap-at- any- cost, World.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
12 Feb 2015 2:42pm
One other point is with Consumer affairs, if it gets to that, they will look at what loss or how you were out of pocket. If its really more of a moral point(which i completely agree with) , They actually don't like that as they feel it ties them up on trivial cases.. So what I'm trying to say is, you may will, but still ultimately get nothing in return.

warwickl
warwickl
NSW
2360 posts
NSW, 2360 posts
12 Feb 2015 6:59pm
Frant my only knowledge of the delivery is that the inflatable boat company promised overnight delivery for a $100 payment and as such I paid them for that as this met my needs. As I stated Fair Trading confirmed my contract is directly with the boat company for the full agreement and no others that may have been involved. At no point did the boat company advise that the delivery may not be met at the time of payment, if they did I would not have agreed to the purchase.
Karsten
Karsten
NSW
331 posts
NSW, 331 posts
12 Feb 2015 7:01pm
frant said..
Warwicki. You didn't answer the question. Did the supplier dispatch the goods via express delivery which is what you paid for? If yes then the supplier has fulfilled his contract, ...



Not really.

Warwick says he made a verbal agreement with the SHOP that he will pay $100 for an explicitly "overnight" delivery.

Now the SHOP takes his money, and then arranges delivery with whomever they choose to use (they can ask the shop assistant's grandmother to do it; that's got nothing to do with Warwick).

If the SHOP cannot fulfill the verbal agreement to provide his goods to him 'overnight", no disaster, they simply have to refund the $100 fee they charged for the agreed overnight delivery.

Simple.

If the SHOP has a beef with their courier, they can recover their costs from the courier if they so choose.


The only tough issue I see here is how well Warwickl can substantiate the existence of the verbal agreement to provide the goods "overnight". If he can do that, I expect he will be able to readily recover his money via due process if he so chooses.




frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
12 Feb 2015 7:43pm
warwickl said..
Frant my only knowledge of the delivery is that the inflatable boat company promised overnight delivery for a $100 payment and as such I paid them for that as this met my needs. As I stated Fair Trading confirmed my contract is directly with the boat company for the full agreement and no others that may have been involved. At no point did the boat company advise that the delivery may not be met at the time of payment, if they did I would not have agreed to the purchase.


This statement appears at odds with your original statement. The shop to my reading may have said "if you want overnight delivery you must pay for an express service" if they provided the goods by express service then you recd what you paid for. As I said it doesn't bother me either way. It's your time effort and angst that appears to be wasted on pursuing the matter. You asked for advice. Mine is let it rest.
RiffRaff
RiffRaff
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
12 Feb 2015 5:08pm
I agree,
It is a large effort for something you may not win.
The fact that the supplier did not fulfill his obligation under the verbal contract you had says more about the ethics of the company than anything else.
Name and shame I say, this is the only satisfaction you may get
warwickl
warwickl
NSW
2360 posts
NSW, 2360 posts
14 Feb 2015 5:36pm
It has been suggested that I should send the boat company a link to this forum topic, any comments or strong objections?
warwickl
warwickl
NSW
2360 posts
NSW, 2360 posts
18 Feb 2015 8:21am
Thanks all again, speaking to some locals they are not impressed with this inflatable boat company either.

Should anyone ever have the need to deal with them make sure everything is in writing and very specific to your reqirements.

If you need to know exactly which company this is PM me.
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