Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Is water in mast 'acceptable'?

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Created by stevet73 1 month ago, 19 Aug 2019
stevet73
NSW, 151 posts
19 Aug 2019 8:03PM
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Finally bought a new foil after having the slingshot h4 for a year and a half....which I continue to enjoy. Whilst the new one is lighter and does feel smoother (it's not slingshot...a bit less mainstream brand....but an sold retail....not an alibaba job), there is a fair bit of water in the mast.

The supplier stated, after I noted this to them (the slingshot had none), 'we recommend you drain the water after every session'.

As I've not used that many different foils (2), is this fairly common or, given the leaps and bounds in design, should this be a red flag Many thanks, Steve

Clamsmasha
WA, 97 posts
19 Aug 2019 6:36PM
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It's not a huge deal, but kind of lazy and cheap on behalf of the brand. It adds a bit of weight and over time possibly causes corrosion inside the mast.

Naish was originally unsealed, which was a bit average as they weren't cheap, whereas my first Slingshot setup was plugged and about $600 cheaper.

You can fix it yourself with silicone.....

emmafoils
74 posts
19 Aug 2019 7:42PM
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I had a mast which took in some water. Drove me nuts. Impossible to completely drain. Couldn't really seal due to concern over trapping water forever. Didn't want to fresh water rinse too much over concern about introducing more water. Hated the noise every time I picked up rig.

If you can just ignore it, it is probably no big deal.

hilly
WA, 4811 posts
19 Aug 2019 8:55PM
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One of the many reasons I got an Armstrong foil. It really is bad design.

JEG
VIC, 1251 posts
20 Aug 2019 7:58AM
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that's the reason why I got Gofoil 1 piece carbon mast/fuselage. Also, with my recent small board, the whole setup now fits in my wagon sideways by taking out the front wing with 1 screw while others are still screawing around the car park

Gorgo
VIC, 4269 posts
20 Aug 2019 12:32PM
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I tried to seal my first aluminium mast using foam plugs and a marine sealant. Immersion in cold water caused the air inside to contract and dislodge the seals. That let water in and it wouldn't drain out.

I removed the seals and always did a full disassemble and drain every session.

I moved on to a full carbon kit and haven't look back. Light. Strong. Not overly expensive. Quick and easy assembly. Taper fit components and minimal screws. There is no power in the world that would make me use any kind of aluminium foiling gear now.

It takes 5-10 minutes to do a full assembly, especially when chatting to people while setting up. The advantage is that all the foiling kit goes into padded bags, fits in the boot of my car and unloads into a shelf in a cupboard in the garage. So much easier than trying to manage a fully assembled kit and trying to avoid damage to the gear or the leather upholstery in the car.

hilly
WA, 4811 posts
20 Aug 2019 11:55AM
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Gorgo said..
There is no power in the world that would make me use any kind of aluminium foiling gear now.


Hear hear

I leave my carbon foil assembled for weeks.





Bender
WA, 2070 posts
20 Aug 2019 1:04PM
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I run the SS 84 on a 71cm mast and have never had water in the mast. The foil stays assembled and attached to board and (all screws have tefgel applied and I do disassemble it every couple of weeks) it fits foil up in the back of my Nissan Navara duel cab ute The tail of the board hangs over the tail gate a little. just looks like cool spoiler


stevet73
NSW, 151 posts
20 Aug 2019 7:35PM
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Great input all. Many thanks.
All carbon.....maybe one day
Try to seal mast.... sounds like a no go.
Slingshot gear (2019)....as I enjoy the H4 still (which also has zero mast water) maybe upgrading my 2018 SS gear a very worthy consideration.

The new foil does feel pretty smooth.....see how my patience goes with current water onboarding....

toppleover
QLD, 1549 posts
21 Aug 2019 7:02AM
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NP Glide alloy mast fills with water - even has a drain hole underneath.

stevet73
NSW, 151 posts
21 Aug 2019 7:20AM
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toppleover said..
NP Glide alloy mast fills with water - even has a drain hole underneath.


After hearing so many good things about the NP foils, surprised they leak water. Do other big brands (aluminium) leak also?......Naish, gofoil, gong, axis, cloud etc

As my first SS H4 (2018) foil didn't leak maybe I just made the (inaccurate) assumption most also dont?

Hdip
35 posts
21 Aug 2019 7:49AM
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I have a 2018 and a 2019 Naish mast. Both are unsealed and fill with water.

hilly
WA, 4811 posts
21 Aug 2019 8:26AM
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Ali foils need constant maintenance. If you are not into that, ie pulling them apart every session, getting tefgel everywhere and washing them, you either accept they will corrode and have water in them or get a carbon set up.
Even though I washed mine really well after sessions the saltwater seeped out of the mast and caused heaps of corrosion over time. It was a no brainer for me, worth every cent to go carbon/titanium. Now it is just like going for a surf, I can just chuck it in the car and leave it assembled for next time. Added bonus it is light and silent, not like my previous ali setup that screamed like a banshee and weighed a ton. And yes I sanded the rear edges.

colas
3382 posts
21 Aug 2019 12:13PM
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stevet73 said..
After hearing so many good things about the NP foils, surprised they leak water. Do other big brands (aluminium) leak also?......Naish, gofoil, gong, axis, cloud etc


Yes, all will. Metal to metal connections will leak, unless you are extremely lucky that the pieces fit perfectly.

JEG
VIC, 1251 posts
21 Aug 2019 2:33PM
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I can't understand why manufacturies still make the alloy parts when it comes to water/sea sports. Yes it's cheap and you can sell it cheap and the $ margin compare to carbon is minor compared to the hassle that consumer goes through, c' mon get your act together.

azymuth
WA, 761 posts
21 Aug 2019 2:26PM
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Bender said..
I run the SS 84 on a 71cm mast and have never had water in the mast. The foil stays assembled and attached to board and (all screws have tefgel applied and I do disassemble it every couple of weeks) it fits foil up in the back of my Nissan Navara duel cab ute The tail of the board hangs over the tail gate a little. just looks like cool spoiler



I agree.
I've used Slingshot gear (aluminum mast and fuselage) for the past couple of years.
Never had water in the mast or corrosion issues, even though I only pull things apart every month or so.

Used a couple of tubes of TefGel

balinnz
16 posts
21 Aug 2019 4:05PM
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Axis masts are plugged at both ends internally and don't hold water at all

hilly
WA, 4811 posts
21 Aug 2019 5:20PM
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balinnz said..
Axis masts are plugged at both ends internally and don't hold water at all


Mine did and everyone I know who has one has water in it. Still a good foil just annoying.

colas
3382 posts
21 Aug 2019 5:39PM
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JEG said..
I can't understand why manufacturies still make the alloy parts when it comes to water/sea sports.


Because it sells. Most people want the cheaper option, especially for their first foil when they do not know if they will like it. And the price difference with a quality carbon mast+fuz is quite significant. Just like alu paddle still exists: people buy them...

But this is up to you. If you want a carbon foil, just buy one, nobody forces you to buy an Alu one.

Krist
QLD, 272 posts
21 Aug 2019 11:46PM
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toppleover said..
NP Glide alloy mast fills with water - even has a drain hole underneath.



Yep, I just thought grabbing the hose and putting it on the hole was part of washing it down after use. Something I have thought about though is when coping a set having the foil heavy and full off water therefore under water safer for the foil (and you) then a foil that may have some float and therefore more chance of damage being caught inside ? Just a thought, but that said carbon is the way to go and all first time foilers should have to watch a educational consumer video warning that this will not be the last foil you buy so just buy a damn carbon one and save having to explain the difference to your better half.

JEG
VIC, 1251 posts
22 Aug 2019 8:35AM
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colas said..





JEG said..
I can't understand why manufacturies still make the alloy parts when it comes to water/sea sports.







Because it sells. Most people want the cheaper option, especially for their first foil when they do not know if they will like it. And the price difference with a quality carbon mast+fuz is quite significant. Just like alu paddle still exists: people buy them...

But this is up to you. If you want a carbon foil, just buy one, nobody forces you to buy an Alu one.






c'mon colas, the evidence is around us and you can't fake the truth. In Australia for example, I and others have done the same on wasting $ and then realised I could've buy a better gear and instead bought an alloy at the start for over $1000 and then realised I could've or have bought a carbon for over $2000 and that's a total of over $3000 spent but instead I should've bought the carbon in the beginning for over $2000 and use that extra $1000 for a wing ding sling swing kaching$ have two toys instead one.
Also, multiple parts foil can be a pain unless its engineered/design right and that's why I choose GoFoil as my 1st foil purchased after demoing others that lots of moving parts and tightening multiple bolts weren't my thing on and off the water.

Fishdude
60 posts
22 Aug 2019 8:33AM
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With my tight budget I'd rather spend 15 minutes sealing a aluminum mast than to separate with the coin to buy carbon. Plus the different sizes

To many other things I'd rather spend my little bit of money on than the latest mast. I'm much more interested in some of the new foil wings, wind wings, boat gear... This stuff add$ up.

I can't help but think technology will come up with a even better mast than the current carbon ones. Maybe something like the material that is used in some aircraft for the cabin floor panels. It's honey-comb aluminum construction that incased with fiberglass that is super light, yet extremely stiff and strong.

JEG
VIC, 1251 posts
22 Aug 2019 11:46AM
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that's a good thing we are free to choose Fishdude.
We could do better though and we should expect better foil toys to come in the future but alloy and multiple bolts and connections in my opinion is not that good and lucky were not air flying because falling near the water is better than falling from the sky kms down.
We have the .... and .... soo use it and design/build it up and stop caveman thinking as we're about to go into 2020 technology.
I'm also hearing crack alloy parts, yes its good short term but long term is not nice.

Hdip
35 posts
22 Aug 2019 10:39AM
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www.instagram.com/p/B1cdrjBHZyM/?igshid=24b6ne1qn1gg

Foil the world is on is on top of it.

colas
3382 posts
22 Aug 2019 12:26PM
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JEG said..
c'mon colas, the evidence is around us and you can't fake the truth. In Australia for example, I and others have done the same on wasting $ [...]
Also, multiple parts foil can be a pain unless its engineered/design right and that's why I choose GoFoil as my 1st foil purchased after demoing others that lots of moving parts and tightening multiple bolts weren't my thing on and off the water.



c'mon JEG, it is not like it was not documented at length on this forum (and on the manufacturers sites) that you had to disassemble and rinse alu foils, and differences between carbon and alu have been discussed at length here. You have all the info to choose what was best for you.

Plus your $1000 is not "wasted", as foils resell quite well and are easy to mail.

As a casual foiler, I am quite satisfied with my alu foil myself, even coming from a carbon mast before. Of course water in it is a pain, especially to carry the foil back to the van. But come on, foiling is a young sport, it is evolving a lot, there is no way you could have hoped to keep the same foil anyways. Just like you will change your Wing sail(s). Heavy Wingfoil riders such as Antoine Albeau prefer alu masts BTW.

Also, good engineered/designed foils have had interchangeable parts from the start, just sayin'. And thus you can just replace your alu mast+fuz by carbon if you choose (and resell the alu or keep as spare).

PS: I do not disassemble my alu foil, I just rinse it as an experiment to see if the corrosion happens if well tef-geled (and I know the Gong shaper is doing the same). So far, seems to work.

JEG
VIC, 1251 posts
22 Aug 2019 2:41PM
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I like the differences between us colas

stevet73
NSW, 151 posts
22 Aug 2019 7:55PM
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Given my 2018 SS hasn't leaked, and several have noted their 2019 SS hasn't either, nor do they pull apart that regularly, does seem to indicate they are a good aluminium option in that regard. Weighty yes. But robust and not (that) leaky, yes!

Aluminium has its place for sure. Good to hear though I shouldn't feel 'short changed' that the new aluminium one I got is leaking mast water.....as it does ride pretty smooth.

I didn't say what brand the new one was at the beginning as I didn't want to generate any potential unfair negative press (thus wanted the view of the masses on 'how much mast water is 'acceptable'). As that does indeed seem to be acceptable, and at risk of steering this thread further off track, I'm comfortable (now) to say the new one is a KONRAD FLYR.

No affiliation. It definitely has more mast water than my the SS H4.....but it rides far nicer and is significantly lighter. This is important now I've gone down to prone. Seems strong too....

colas
3382 posts
22 Aug 2019 8:34PM
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FYI, Gong had to loosen the fit of the alu mast into the alu fuz: Customers did not want to use a mallet to take them apart, so the market demanded a looser fit... and then there was no hope of being waterproof. So, at least for the Gong market, water in the mast was more acceptable than having to use a mallet. But it can be different for different brands (or product lines) with a different kind of market.

Mass manufacturers have to sell their products if they want to stay in business. Small shops can be more picky and choose their customers.

stevet73
NSW, 151 posts
23 Aug 2019 5:08PM
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Great insight colas.....a perspective some of us, me included, would not have ever considered....

Clamsmasha
WA, 97 posts
23 Aug 2019 8:22PM
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You can seal a mast without having to bang it in with a mallet. As evidenced by Slingshot masts.

For a home fix fix just put a bit of polyurethane glue into the chamber along the wall about an inch in. Wait till it froths up and cures then repeat until sealed. Pump in some silicone sealant and it's done.

scotty100
QLD, 182 posts
24 Aug 2019 10:48AM
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balinnz said..
Axis masts are plugged at both ends internally and don't hold water at all


What axis you got? It only hold a little at top where foil mount attaches, not big issue as you pull it apart regularly anyway.



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"Is water in mast 'acceptable'?" started by stevet73