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Shortboard to sup ratio- calling you shapers

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Created by benjl 1 month ago, 18 Feb 2020
benjl
338 posts
18 Feb 2020 4:32PM
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so back when I used to shortboard, I had this custom made. It was supposed to be a 1 board quiver (sadly I snapped my Achillies tendon 2 weeks after buying it and never really got to shortboarding again).

Ive always been curious.. if this shape was blown up to sup-size, what kind of dims would it be and would it work well as a sup? pretty timeless kind of shape and bottom contours.

lukemin
WA, 57 posts
18 Feb 2020 5:32PM
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Benji, if you scale the outline it comes very close to a bunch of leading SUP brand surf specs, these will then have various construction, rails shape, concave, rocker, etc.but for a given length there are a bunch of boards with very close dimensions.you could make a SUP based on that surfboard and it could be a ripper but just not perfect for every condition, same as all boards.

benjl
338 posts
19 Feb 2020 11:38AM
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What kind of scaling would you apply to make this sup-size but keeping the same proportions? I'd love to know what it spits out as

lukemin
WA, 57 posts
19 Feb 2020 4:19PM
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Select to expand quote
benjl said..
What kind of scaling would you apply to make this sup-size but keeping the same proportions? I'd love to know what it spits out as


Benji, you can multiply the specs x 1.5 for example and get an 8'6'' SUP

colas
3752 posts
19 Feb 2020 9:15PM
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The Gong Alley (among others) seems to have a very close outline, you could use its dimensions as a guide:



Kami
1459 posts
20 Feb 2020 8:49PM
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I have drawn your ShortBoard up to dimensions shown on the AKU sketch up here. I'm scaling up this SB into a SUP of 7'4'' 26'' 4" 80 litres.
If you please in the next videos, we can balance the volume and dims of this SUP. By this way, I hope we achieve to find the ratio from SB to SUP. I wonder it needs to change some curves of the outline or profile to find that right balance to be able to paddle stood upon this enlarged SB.

nmpg
6 posts
20 Feb 2020 11:21PM
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Select to expand quote
Kami said..
I have drawn your ShortBoard up to dimensions shown on the AKU sketch up here. I'm scaling up this SB into a SUP of 7'4'' 26'' 4" 80 litres.
If you please in the next videos, we can balance the volume and dims that SUP.




Nice !!
What would the dimensions be for a 100 liter board ?

Kami
1459 posts
20 Feb 2020 11:32PM
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Select to expand quote
nmpg said..

Kami said..
I have drawn your ShortBoard up to dimensions shown on the AKU sketch up here. I'm scaling up this SB into a SUP of 7'4'' 26'' 4" 80 litres.
If you please in the next videos, we can balance the volume and dims that SUP.





Nice !!
What would the dimensions be for a 100 liter board ?


Thx you, mmpg.
Please wait a while until we fix the outline and profile to make that basically SB into a"stand up paddlable" board. Watch next few changes we have to do ;-)

benjl
338 posts
21 Feb 2020 6:01AM
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This is soo cool! I always wondered whether the dimensions could just be blown up or whether they would have to be tailored to sup specifically. The theory on my Sb was this- I took the 5'6 hypto krypto, but then tried to stretch a few inches, make it about 1" more narrow and add a touch more rocker but while still keeping a bit of width in the nose and basic template. The hypto is a super good paddler, quite flat and made to be ridden short. It's also got a rounded pin to make it handle the juice and counter the rocker. I wanted mine to be a bit more of an alrounder but without losing the good paddling and short, playful feel

benjl
338 posts
21 Feb 2020 8:57AM
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@kami- what's the green and red outlines on the screen? Is that the original plan shape vs the new outline based on 7'4 x 26? Would love to see something around the 100l mark!

lukemin
WA, 57 posts
21 Feb 2020 5:03PM
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I think 8'7" x 29.4 would put you at the 100L mark but the board would be 3.64 inches thick. maybe better to scale a bit shorter and add 5/8 inch

lukemin
WA, 57 posts
21 Feb 2020 5:03PM
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I think 8'7" x 29.4 would put you at the 100L mark but the board would be 3.64 inches thick. maybe better to scale a bit shorter and add 5/8 inch

benjl
338 posts
21 Feb 2020 6:07PM
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Hmm that doesn't sound right. My blue planet is 8'4x 28 100l and is 3.75" thick with the thinnest rails and tail of any sup ive ever surfed.
I think kami's model was 7'4 x 26 x 4 and 80l, so would guess 100l to be around 8'0?

Kami
1459 posts
21 Feb 2020 7:44PM
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Select to expand quote
benjl said..
@kami- what's the green and red outlines on the screen? Is that the original plan shape vs the new outline based on 7'4 x 26? Would love to see something around the 100l mark!



I coloured with green the Apex line (outline) and red the Rail line.

About to match the 100 litres, we have to do tweak out the profile and outline back to the Hypto Krypto shape first of all suggestion, tweaking outline and profile which allow more stability or less corky than your original SB.

Please wait a while until I will edit the next video part 2.


Kami
1459 posts
27 Feb 2020 1:54AM
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Hi BenjI, here a video showing that at 100 litres the board dims scale up to 8' 28.3" 3,9''. From the original SB file of 5'9" I tweak the deck lines and thickness to find some volume balance to make the board easiest to paddle.
IMO, The main characteristic of the 5'9'' SB which is is concave locates at 17'' of tail moves to 31'' on the 8" SUP. So if you have an aggro surfing style that this kind of shape deserves, you must have as well a wide and strong wide stance of feet positions.

For my own weight of 79 kg, I would go 7'4'' 27 " 3,8" 88 litres for that kind of bottom shape.


.be






benjl
338 posts
27 Feb 2020 5:10PM
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Hey kami, that looks epic. Those dims would be bang on for a shape id get at 100l.
Love the flyer tail and step deck!!
I didn't quite get what you meant about the tail rocker at 17 vs 30"?
are you going to make a 7'4 one for you? Would be epic to see!

Kami
1459 posts
28 Feb 2020 5:36PM
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I didn't quite get what you meant about the tail rocker at 17 vs 30"?

Hi Benji, I mean that the location of the planning area which is also the max deepness of the concave is situated around 17'' from the tail on the SB. Once you scale up to a SUP 7'4" the max concave deepness comes up to 30 " from the tail.
So if you want to pump the SUP board as you would do it on an SB, you must have your foot stance aside of the 30" concave location.
IMO, to reply to '' Shortboard to sup ratio- calling you shapers" the reply is not to give a ratio but to make a whole SUP shape working as an SB shape. This makes me say that you cant simply scale up an SB shape to a SUP to make a good board. This is not as simple.

So I keep drawing and by now I'm working with the kind of concave bottom shape and rocker. 7'7'' 28" 100 litres with 5 fins FCS K2 Thruster with small leading twinzer fin.

Please, I want to ask your weight and height?



lukemin
WA, 57 posts
29 Feb 2020 10:06AM
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Select to expand quote
Kami said..
I didn't quite get what you meant about the tail rocker at 17 vs 30"?

Hi Benji, I mean that the location of the planning area which is also the max deepness of the concave is situated around 17'' from the tail on the SB. Once you scale up to a SUP 7'4" the max concave deepness comes up to 30 " from the tail.
So if you want to pump the SUP board as you would do it on an SB, you must have your foot stance aside of the 30" concave location.
IMO, to reply to '' Shortboard to sup ratio- calling you shapers" the reply is not to give a ratio but to make a whole SUP shape working as an SB shape. This makes me say that you cant simply scale up an SB shape to a SUP to make a good board. This is not as simple.

So I keep drawing and by now I'm working with the kind of concave bottom shape and rocker. 7'7'' 28" 100 litres with 5 fins FCS K2 Thruster with small leading twinzer fin.

Please, I want to ask your weight and height?




Hi Kami, I agree you can't scale up so much and expect to get a SUP board performing as the sb , but also I think performance surf SUPs have already been designed so no need to scale up at all.

Kami
1459 posts
29 Feb 2020 5:15PM
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Select to expand quote
lukemin said..

Kami said..
I didn't quite get what you meant about the tail rocker at 17 vs 30"?

Hi Benji, I mean that the location of the planning area which is also the max deepness of the concave is situated around 17'' from the tail on the SB. Once you scale up to a SUP 7'4" the max concave deepness comes up to 30 " from the tail.
So if you want to pump the SUP board as you would do it on an SB, you must have your foot stance aside of the 30" concave location.
IMO, to reply to '' Shortboard to sup ratio- calling you shapers" the reply is not to give a ratio but to make a whole SUP shape working as an SB shape. This makes me say that you cant simply scale up an SB shape to a SUP to make a good board. This is not as simple.

So I keep drawing and by now I'm working with the kind of concave bottom shape and rocker. 7'7'' 28" 100 litres with 5 fins FCS K2 Thruster with small leading twinzer fin.

Please, I want to ask your weight and height?





Hi Kami, I agree you can't scale up so much and expect to get a SUP board performing as the sb , but also I think performance surf SUPs have already been designed so no need to scale up at all.


Hi Lukemin, I didn't pay enough attention to your past inputs, sorry. It seems to me that you rightly point on the ratio thickness/surface. That sounds right to me, better stability on a thin but large board rather than a thick narrow corky board. Thus the right ratio is here. Therefore when you are saying" "I think 8'7" x 29.4 would put you at the 100L mark but the board would be 3.64 inches thick. maybe better to scale a bit shorter and add 5/8 inch" it seems to me that you still are talking about standard SUP board dimensions but none about scale-up shortboard SUP

So below my last design with a dims ratio of 7'10'' 28" 4" 100litres.

BTW, the designing of surfboards is a large domain and is a renewal of 50 years of shaping passion with the SUP arising to me even so it's has been already done by the expert major of this SUP business. No shaping statement, this an endless artistic search ;-)




nmpg
6 posts
1 Mar 2020 10:17PM
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Kami,
I would not mind trying a board like this.... :-)
With what fins is the board supposed to be used with ?
This last version has a more pronounced hip with less tail area.... doesn't this make it less of a "1 quiver board" ?

You also dropped the step rails... why ?

Kami
1459 posts
13 Mar 2020 6:55PM
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Select to expand quote
nmpg said..
Kami,
I would not mind trying a board like this.... :-)
With what fins is the board supposed to be used with ?
This last version has a more pronounced hip with less tail area.... doesn't this make it less of a "1 quiver board" ?

You also dropped the step rails... why ?



Sorry nmpg I bailed out of that kind of shape been too far from Benji's Shortboard kind of shape. But to reply to your question about fins that would be a K2 thruster set (Kelly ones) with some 2 canards forward of the fronts K2.
Also I can settle back the step rails....just a bit of work to do on the file to gain some volume and lower rails .
PM me if you want to make build that kind of board.

Kami
1459 posts
13 Mar 2020 7:06PM
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Hi, Benji. On Shape3D I did attempt to design a SUP from a shortboard, it appears that shortboard outlines curves won't fit a SUP outline which a certain kind of balance to be able to stand up on paddling.

As I pay attention what Lukemin said about scaling up a shortboard into a performance SUP to a So I start to design that next SUP from a fish surfboard S3DX file like the GOfish from 5'9" 20 3/8" 2 1/2" " litres to a SUP of 7' 28" 4' 85 litres.

I hope you would appreciate that concept of the performance SUP.


Please don't mind my bad English speaking in this video.



Kami
1459 posts
13 Mar 2020 7:06PM
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Hi, Benji. On Shape3D I did attempt to design a SUP from a shortboard, it appears that shortboard outlines curves won't fit a SUP outline which a certain kind of balance to be able to stand up on paddling.

As I pay attention what Lukemin said about scaling up a shortboard into a performance SUP to a So I start to design that next SUP from a fish surfboard S3DX file like the GOfish from 5'9" 20 3/8" 2 1/2" " litres to a SUP of 7' 28" 4' 85 litres.

I hope you would appreciate that concept of the performance SUP.


Please don't mind my bad English speaking in this video.





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"Shortboard to sup ratio- calling you shapers" started by benjl