380 Penetrator

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kiakaha
kiakaha
QLD
472 posts
QLD, 472 posts
13 Mar 2009 7:40pm
This Penetrator is fast and a must for the quiver.




Lobes
Lobes
885 posts
885 posts
13 Mar 2009 7:08pm
Looks quick. Interesting to see how those holes at the back go in chop.

Scuse me for being metrically challenged, but I get confused. 380 cm is the same as.... 12'6?
JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
13 Mar 2009 9:45pm
Thanks for posting the photos Jodie - it looks slick! Any comments about the stability difference with the lower deck? Woogie is skinnier than I though in that second photo with his gear off!
oliver
oliver
3952 posts
3952 posts
13 Mar 2009 7:56pm
Lobes said...

Looks quick. Interesting to see how those holes at the back go in chop.

Scuse me for being metrically challenged, but I get confused. 380 cm is the same as.... 12'6?


The internet is a marvelous thing.... Here's a little tip - I use this all the time to convert metric to imperial and vice versa: type "380cm to feet" into google and press the search button.
Lobes
Lobes
885 posts
885 posts
13 Mar 2009 8:18pm
Yes, I know, I know. Could probably even do it in my head but when I said 'metrically challenged' what I actually meant was 'chronically lazy'

Heres what google came up with anyway:

380 centimeter = 12.467 191 601 feet

12.5 feet = 381 centimeter

www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
13 Mar 2009 11:16pm
That new 12'6" Pene looks great.. Well done (again) Stuey..

DJ
kiakaha
kiakaha
QLD
472 posts
QLD, 472 posts
14 Mar 2009 7:33am
JonathanC said...

Any comments about the stability difference with the lower deck? Woogie is skinnier than I though in that second photo with his gear off!


Stability was great it actually felt more stable that the bigger Penetrators - and it even felt more stable if you had a narrow stance.

If felt very fast - and with the fast momentum you could increase your stroke rate with ease. Even through we did a small tester in the flat waters in the bumps this would hummm.


R & D with different body weights - even Stuey got on for a spin.





Lobes
Lobes
885 posts
885 posts
14 Mar 2009 6:36am
Stueys better looking then I imagined. Didnt know he was a Kiwi though...
mikeman
mikeman
QLD
692 posts
QLD, 692 posts
14 Mar 2009 12:22pm
Looks really nice...and fast. The displacement hull looks great.

A "surfboat flap" on the back might be the answer for the opening at the back. They use them as a one way valve so that water can escape but not get in. Great concept, simple and it works.

JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
22 Mar 2009 11:00am
Just got back from Noosa where I had the privilege to meet Stuey and Woogie. I've ordered a 14' board from Stuey and was up there to talk it through and finalise details. What a pleasure it is to order a custom board and have the ability to work out exactly what you want, rather than a generic clone.

Sure there is the risk factor of not knowing exactly what you will get but the only other time I have done this was with a windsurf board from Mark Stone in Geraldton I was astounded at how good the end result was. Mind you I would put Stoney right up there with Stuey at the rare genius end of the shaper spectrum.

And the crazy thing about all this in Australia is that usually these boards are cheaper than production boards.

Had a few days there and Tully StJohn lent me his 14' Penetrator to use.






Unfortunately I don't have detailed photos of the 14' (brain fade) but I will give you my impressions. I'm 69kg and 5'8.

First time I stood up on the board got these weird little high speed correction wobbles, really just a matter of telling myself that it was all OK, didn't need to do that and it stopped! Paddled out across the river for about ten strokes on one side the on the board. It just tracked dead straight and so fast - completely different to anything I had ever experienced!

But how am I ever going to turn.....well it was as simple as tilting the board with each stroke, no weird push out paddle technique. If you want to go left you press the right rail down with each stroke and the thing really turns - for old windsurfers just like jibing an original Windsurfer depress the outside rail in the turn. Suddenly the initial tippiness gives a huge benefit because the depression of the rail is achieved so easily, it's just a subtle weight shift more than anything else.

Feel a bit like I'm driving a hotrod with a big block, global warming has been proven a myth and I've got free petrol - stupid grin on my face as I do two laps of the Noosa Canal then head straight out through the river mouth.

Well the waves weren't too big but the old reflected chop made them come from three directions at once - so first fall. The water is very shallow so I walk it out anyway, I guess it has filled up with sand from the cyclone and I don't want to do a "Woogie" and go over the handlebars at high speed (that's my version of high speed - not Woogies). Woogie did the fly over the front thing in the race a couple of days before, hitting that bar hard with the fin, probably costing him a couple of places.

Out through the waves and into Laguna Bay, have to admit I'm still not relaxed and it does feel pretty tippy in the open water but boy does it crank along. Up to the race area grab a burger and a drink then a couple of laps of the Bay. Interestingly some guys are paddling back from the bar on their knees on wavier SUPS cursing the wind, of course I'd noticed it but it just wasn't a problem, keep the stroke rate up and the thing just rips upwind tracking straight.

Caught a couple of small waves at the bar, nothing dramatic just catch it super early and set a high speed course across the face, the thing that amazed me here was that at one stage I was sure I was too broad to the wave as it started to break but somehow the wave just eased the nose of the board around without tripping me and I got away with it. I guess the fact that there is no real rail as such so it doesn't catch - I was in fools paradise!

Paddle back in, another quick lap of the canal and back to the apartment - almost four hours of paddling and I'm mentally and physically completely stuffed.

Next day I do an early canal lap and quick trip up the river, saw the most amazing sight, a tiny bird is flying just above the water catching bugs I guess when suddenly a small ray (18" 450mm) leaps from the water, back in then leaps out again. Probably at least 3 or 400mm into the air - bird flies off fast - ray still hungry. Wonderful.

Today the 14' feels super easy, somehow my brain has got it sorted and I can get much more power into my paddle strokes and turning has become intuitive. Pack it up and back to Tully with the board, have a chat to two very nice polite German girls in the car-park in a Wicked van with "We stop for pussy" on the back - oh dear..

Grab the 12-6 in the afternoon, pissing with rain but who cares! While the guys are battling it out in tiny waves out the front I'm having a blast.

Thought I'd come to an untouched paradise - better not fall off.
Warning - Water Contaminated With Sewage




First impression is that this board is stable, really stable, like 11-2 Starboard stable, hang on I thought Penetrators were supposed to be tippy. Start paddling, just as fast for me as the 14' because I can put so much power into the stroke. Feels like I'm standing at water level - of course I'm not because my feet are dry. Trying hard not to break into hysterical laughter because of all the people around, I power off up the canal. Rain stops and I get a shot of the perfect ripples off the nose, still gliding after I stop paddling, put down the paddle, kneel down, get out the camera, turn it on.




Still moving so I get another shot, this time of the tail.



So off we go, up the river and another couple of canal laps, end up close to the mouth where the power boats speed up just a bit early so there is heaps of boat wake. This thing is just so stable I'm hitting wake at stupid angles just trying to tip it, rock solid - when you look at the hull shape it makes no sense. This board is a revelation for me, so fast, so stable - amazing.

But later on Stewie explains that this board probably had too little volume for 90kg 200lb Woogie, he was just dragging the tail a little deeper whereas for me it was just sitting nicely clear of the water. I think that it was the low volume that really helped stability for me, while the 14' was riding really high in the water with my weight on it so I was really just on the fully curved section - no wonder I did the tiny little death wobble dance when I first got on. And in reality I probably had the same waterline length in the water riding the 14 'high' as opposed to the 12'6 'just right'. Maybe the volume (not length) is more critical for different weights in a board like the Penetrator.

Side profile



Nose detail - note the goretex breather valve....detail, detail, detail.



Handle detail - hole goes right through for draining.



Tail detail - WOW





Bottom detail





Rocker detail





Bottom shape - Mid point


Bottom shape - 1 metre from tail


Bottom shape - 1 metre from nose


So, how happy do you think I was heading back to talk through my new board with Stuey, it will have the pin tail and the two 'exhausts' will come out just before the tail like tubes cut off on an acute angle..cool. Here are a few photos of the early stages.







That's Woogie in the background of one of the photos. Stewie, working with the most basic of equipment in a small space creates wonderful boards. Amazing what an open mind, acute observation, passion and 20,000 boards under your belt can do.







firstpoint
firstpoint
QLD
613 posts
QLD, 613 posts
22 Mar 2009 1:38pm
ive stood and watch stuey on many occasions in his shaping and glassing bay,he does it all,hand shaped race boards right thru to colour,this guy is creating the pace in downwind racers and people still want chinese crap no matter who designed them.buy australian from australian shapers.
Casso
Casso
NSW
3785 posts
NSW, 3785 posts
22 Mar 2009 7:08pm
Awesome reviews and great photos Jonathan. Thanks.
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
22 Mar 2009 8:59pm
Thanks for the review and pictures Jonathan.. ..How many sleeps now? ..

DJ
Lobes
Lobes
885 posts
885 posts
22 Mar 2009 8:09pm
Good review and write up Jonathon. I like the way you used the paddle shaft to show the rocker.Lots of interesting stuff. Well done surfing a break on a 14 ft board!

That 12'6 looks pretty amazing. Do you think it would be a good downwinder?


I think that it was the low volume that really helped stability for me, while the 14' was riding really high in the water with my weight on it so I was really just on the fully curved section - no wonder I did the tiny little death wobble dance when I first got on. And in reality I probably had the same waterline length in the water riding the 14 'high' as opposed to the 12'6 'just right'. Maybe the volume (not length) is more critical for different weights in a board like the Penetrator.


That is an interesting theory. Pono Bill has been putting some entertaining posts up recently about the Foote Gumby board he has. Its only 12' but hes been killing it in downwinders lately. Hes a much bigger guy than you but the Gumby board looks like it has heaps more volume then the Pene 12'6.
JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
23 Mar 2009 2:08pm
I think it would be a great down-winder Lobes - in fact it made me wonder why I was getting a 14' !!!

Maybe Stuey can come in with some details on the width of the board - didn't have a tape with me. I'm not even sure how wide the 14' is either, would be good to know that too.

Interesting to look at the photo of the little boy on the board then the photo of Woogie. There is substantially more board in the water with 90kg on the board than 25kg? Not sure what is optimal but the nose certainly seems pretty low to me with Woogie on board, you can easily see how it has an effect on the waterline length.

Hoping that Stuey can get the volume down on the 14 to suit my weight.
kiakaha
kiakaha
QLD
472 posts
QLD, 472 posts
23 Mar 2009 2:08pm
All the Penetrators are made around the idea that they are down wind Open Ocean boards so the 12'6 would be great. More so in the sprint distance but if the swells are short in a LD then even more so as the board would fit in nicely - therefore catching more bumps

I think the 14" is 27 wide

We did R & D on that day we took it out - Taj (20 kg) then me (55 kg), Stuey (70ish) and Woogie (88 kg) we found that this board would suit a persons weight between -45 kg to 75 kg - then the next size up would be 80 kg to 100 kg so when ordering these boards weight is important to get the right amount of thickness through the board.
Buddina SUP
Buddina SUP
QLD
48 posts
QLD, 48 posts
23 Mar 2009 6:46pm
Another item for my Christmas list.

It looks great and would open up a whole new area to the sport of SUP for me as I am mainly just surfing. I think the length would be more ideal then the 14 footer especially for getting off and back through the beach breaks on some of the Sunshine Coast beaches.

Watch some vids of descent size swell in some down winding and it looks like a hoot.

Better chat to the wife...
PonoBill
PonoBill
87 posts
87 posts
24 Mar 2009 3:47pm
What a great looking board! I think those tail ports are amazing looking, and the squarish tail will make it really good on most downwinders. Maybe not the one I did today (15 foot swells with brutally short period and side groundswell, 35+ mph wind).

As always, Stuey's boards are unique and completely personal. with all the people running around copying each other it's great to see a guy who goes his own way, and builds great stuff.
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
24 Mar 2009 6:03pm
PonoBill said...

What a great looking board! I think those tail ports are amazing looking,



Hey Bill... If you think those tail ports look amazing just wait till you see what Stuey has planed for the new 14' Pene.. .. I know you will love it..

We should have pics in about a week or so.... Can't wait.

DJ

PonoBill
PonoBill
87 posts
87 posts
25 Mar 2009 2:21am
I know exactly what you mean about the death wobble (great term), I had them in spades on my Penetrator 572, and it is mostly a matter of calming down and getting your body to realize it doesn't have to keep the board perfectly vertical. What's really odd is that after spending a day on a Penetrator, when you got on an ordinary SUP board you also get a few moments of death wobbles, until your brain does a reset. That's a pretty strong indication of how very different a Penetrator is.

It's very clear when you stack weight on one in a pool (as we did in the Race Board Showcase on Ke Nalu: http://www.kenalu.com/2009/03/11/2009-stand-up-paddle-racedistancedownwinder-showcase-part-1/ ) that Penetrators have a highly variable waterline and wetted width that varies with weight. Not only initial stability but dynamic stability (recovery) is affected by weight since the curve of the hull steepens towards the edge. Heavier people get volume added faster as the board tips.

Remarkable boards. My Penetrator 572 has people who have played with it rethinking how many boards they need to race competitively and what they should look like. The answer seems to be certainly more than one, and one of them needs to be a displacement hull. Otherwise if conditions don't have you planing constantly in the swells, you're going to be behind one.
JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
25 Mar 2009 9:26am
It will be interesting to see how Stuey goes with the shape of this board to meet my "brief". Initially I had asked him to beef up the rails a little to make it more of a touring board - that is, if you imagine the cross section is like a hard hat upside down, the brim of the hat to be thicker. This was partially because I wanted to do long distance in open water rather than race and partially because I was a chicken and a little intimidated by the whole Penetrator trip!

But then after riding the 12-6 I asked him to keep the volume low, to optimise the volume of the board for my weight - bit like saying that I want is floaty and sinky. The great thing is that I'm sure Stuey can do that.

Just re-read one of your Gumby posts Bill and you talked briefly about developing the skill to allow you to really put the power into your stroke. The difference between the 12-6 and the 14 was huge in this regard, and even Woogie said it made a big difference to him.

I guess the ideal would be to have the centre of effort of the paddle at exactly the same height as the centre of the part of the board that is underwater. That way there would be no torque put onto the board that required stabilising by shifting your weight. This is just hot air theory but I'm trying to imagine paddling a round log, what would be the best depth to hollow it out to to avoid roll each time you paddled.

Still trying to work out how the 12-6 felt so stable, can only think that the transition from the round part of the hard hat to the brim was exactly on the water line (or slightly below) for my weight. Then every little tip was immediately counterbalanced by the brim/rail wanting to bob back up - hitting boat wake very close to side on it felt much more stable and trimmed faster than my 12-6 Starboard.

If this is right, it is very subtle because the transition in the bottom shape is very hard to pick by eye and really only demonstrated by comparing the side on shots of Woogie and his little boy. Woogie has the rail in the water (too deep, probably slowing him down) and the little guy has quite a bit of tip ability (tippability!?) before he will be stabilised (mind you I suggest that any son of Woogie and Jodie could whip my sorry a$$ even at 20kg wringing wet).
PonoBill
PonoBill
87 posts
87 posts
25 Mar 2009 10:52am
I suspect that deeply recessed deck has a lot to do with it. that and having the right weight for the board.
stuey c
stuey c
QLD
265 posts
QLD, 265 posts
25 Mar 2009 10:00pm
The radical increase in stability of the new 12'6" is a direct result of lowering the paddler. In scientific terms I'm not dead sure of why this is appart from a lower centre of gravity will make anything more stable. It was just another of those things that I envisaged would improve not just the 12'6" but all future Penetrators and it's been a massive breakthrough. Not only is the board way more stable but this also allows the paddler to apply heaps more controlled power. My one concern had been the open tail and how well it would work but these fears proved unfounded as any water that enters the deeply sunken deck exits extremely quickly due to the large vents and the fact that the concave increases depth towards the tail.
JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
26 Mar 2009 5:08am
Told you it was a "hot air" theory........
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
26 Mar 2009 12:57pm
Does the rear hollow deck serve a purpose? More rigid? Reduces water pooling in the recessed deck?

Would it not be easier to build and lighter and quicker to drain to just have the deck open through to the tail (similar to an open transom sailing dinghy?)
Piros
Piros
QLD
7303 posts
QLD, 7303 posts
26 Mar 2009 12:30pm
Maybe set a go pro camera on the nose to film the water flow it would be interesting to see the rate the water flows out.

Cool looking board.
stuey c
stuey c
QLD
265 posts
QLD, 265 posts
29 Mar 2009 1:24pm
Gorgo said...

Does the rear hollow deck serve a purpose? More rigid? Reduces water pooling in the recessed deck?

Would it not be easier to build and lighter and quicker to drain to just have the deck open through to the tail (similar to an open transom sailing dinghy?)


It would definetly be easier to build as a straight open transom but wouldn't be any quicker to drain as it does it very quickly and efficiently the way it is. It may possibly reduce pooling in the rear of the recessed deck by being enclosed and is more rigid. However the main reason is aesthetics, it's simply another product of form follows function. The obvious purpose of opening up the tail is to rapidly drain any water that may enter such a deeply sunken deck, once this function is served style comes into play. The enclosed exhaust system certainly looks cool and gives the new line of Penetrators their own unique style while maybe adding 50 grams to what is already a very lightweight craft. Remember it would also be easier, quicker and lighter to build them without any colour but we aint gonna do that because looks are important too.........
Buddina SUP
Buddina SUP
QLD
48 posts
QLD, 48 posts
29 Mar 2009 1:41pm
I think it is fantastic. I jumped on it last week and the glide in the water was teriffic. Compared to my 11"6' Southpoint I would only need 1 stroke to every 2 to 3 strokes on the southpoint.
Stuey, where can I view the rest of your range, in particular performance surf style SUPs?
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