Acceptable life span for a $1000 board?

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LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
8 Oct 2009 10:47am
What would you consider an accceptable life span for a $1000 board?
And what would you consider to be unacceptable wear or damage after about 100 hours of surfing?
tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
8 Oct 2009 10:57am
depends on the quality of the waves you ride

and any board can snap in a 2 ft shorey the first day you ride it if it is hit the WRONG WAY and the only way it gives is to snap crackle pop

where do you get a board for $1000?
tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
8 Oct 2009 11:00am
LSD if it still floats after 100 hours i would still be smiling
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
8 Oct 2009 11:05am
Yeah where do you get a custom for $1000?

I would still want it to last a couple of years cause a $1800 one would last quite a while (I hope) barring an unlucky wipeout on a ledging reefbreak. A grand is still a lot of money.
Tux
Tux
VIC
3829 posts
Tux Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
8 Oct 2009 12:16pm
100 Good waves....if you can get 100 waves that make you smile thats 10 bucks a smile and I reckon its money well spent
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
8 Oct 2009 12:19pm
goatman said...

Yeah where do you get a custom for $1000?

Me?...maybe....just toying with the idea

I have tried to give local makers the heads up on this light board stuff, none are interested.
The way I make my boards is the same as eps/epoxy surfboards, so nothing new any board maker can do it, but they dont, why?

What I'm after here feed back on what riders are prepared to accept.

That green flame board dinted on the deck first surf, it will continue to dint untill the paddling/foot area becomes slightly concave.
I had a ride on Dave Pamenter's board last summer, his had done the same.
The plain weave glass goes into tension & the eps compresses to a point were it is happy to support the continuos standing weight. They dont seem to continue to go concave, they stop at 6mm or so. Its not like polyurithane/polyester where the foam cells actualy crush & stay crushed, then eventualy delam, the eps has a memory to a point, delam takes far longer if ever. Do the finger test to polyester & it leaves a dint, eps comes out.
Guys have riden my dinted decks & remarked how it felt good under foot, the surftech site has a bit on their feps, still eps, they talk of the memory effect & how it's nice to surf on.

I have been very reluctant to go commercial, because of the dint issue, it can be minimised in single skin but not eliminated, going to higher density foam they still dint & add weight defeating the pupose, going to sandwich foot patch is an option but increases cost/labour & other probs.
I have had plenty of guys wanting light boards. The reason for this post is to find out what is acceptable.
The condition report on the lizard I posted some time ago is unchanged, the board still floats & will for years to come.

firstpoint
firstpoint
QLD
613 posts
QLD, 613 posts
8 Oct 2009 11:22am
goatman said...

Yeah where do you get a custom for $1000?

I would still want it to last a couple of years cause a $1800 one would last quite a while (I hope) barring an unlucky wipeout on a ledging reefbreak. A grand is still a lot of money.


saw your new shooter an hour ago almost finished,sweet
Tux
Tux
VIC
3829 posts
Tux Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
8 Oct 2009 12:22pm
LSD said...

goatman said...

Yeah where do you get a custom for $1000?

Me?...maybe....just toying with the idea

I have tried to give local makers the heads up on this light board stuff, none are interested.
The way I make my boards is the same as eps/epoxy surfboards, so nothing new any board maker can do it, but they dont, why?

What I'm after here feed back on what riders are prepared to accept.

That green flame board dinted on the deck first surf, it will continue to dint untill the paddling/foot area becomes slightly concave.
I had a ride on Dave Pamenter's board last summer, his had done the same.
The plain weave glass goes into tension & the eps compresses to a point were it is happy to support the continuos standing weight. They dont seem to continue to go concave, they stop at 6mm or so. Its not like polyurithane/polyester where the foam cells actualy crush & stay crushed, then eventualy delam, the eps has a memory to a point, delam takes far longer if ever. Do the finger test to polyester & it leaves a dint, eps comes out.
Guys have riden my dinted decks & remarked how it felt good under foot, the surftech site has a bit on their feps, still eps, they talk of the memory effect & how it's nice to surf on.

I have been very reluctant to go commercial, because of the dint issue, it can be minimised in single skin but not eliminated, going to higher density foam they still dint & add weight defeating the pupose, going to sandwich foot patch is an option but increases cost/labour & other probs.
I have had plenty of guys wanting light boards. The reason for this post is to find out what is acceptable.
The condition report on the lizard I posted some time ago is unchanged, the board still floats & will for years to come.




Just do it bro....most of my surfboards have massive pressure dings in the deck from my fat ass and still ride sweet as....the only way I have managed to slow this dwon is 6 x 6 with 10 oz patch in the deck....needless to say they are ****ing heavy for a shortboard...if people complain they have rocks in there head
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
8 Oct 2009 12:56pm
As you suggested, "lifespan" should be virtually unlimited. Barring normal wear and tear (heel dents, the odd compression ding, colour fading, etc) a board should pretty much last forever. It should become obsolete long before it wears out.

Robustness is more of a concern. A commercial product should be fit for the intended purpose so a board should not break in a 2' shorey, or fold in half in normal bottom turn.

Abnormal events are something else. The fair trade laws have a test of reasonableness so you can exclude things like having a 6' close out hit dead centre or dropping on your board going over the falls or being runover by a goat boat or whatever.

I think delamination and major cracking would be unreasonable duriong normal use.

Almost every board I have ever owned has had heel dents (except a Surftech longboard. I luv Surftech.) They're not a problem as long as the board still works.

I keep records of all my fun stuff and I guess emotionally I'm pretty happy if the cost of ownership is down around $10 and hour. That's only 100 hours on a $1000 board. If I can onsell it for $500 that's even better.
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
8 Oct 2009 1:15pm
One thing that I have been surprised with is the strength of single skin glass, eps, I really expected a snaped board by now.
The shorter, thicker, wider subs have more of an overall "I" beam situation, this & the epoxy/glass flexability tends to resist the well known creace.
You engineers out there could tell us the difference in ridgidity between a 2" surfboard & a 4" sub, would it be exponential?......Jonathan?
JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
8 Oct 2009 3:05pm
OK, I've created a new unit for overall board stiffness unit "Viagras" (V) It defines how stiff a board if you are in the middle and the tip and tail are each on a wave. Thing is that if you double the length the stress will be four times and the deflection will be 16 times!! The deflection is what will cause the buckling - that poor old top layer getting pushed into itself in exactly the opposite direction of how it likes to be loaded.

So the issue is more about buckling than stiffness though, because that's how boards fail and that is more of a problem in a longer SUP than a mal because of the bigger span the force can work on. So to get an equivalent surf proof-ness in a long board you have to strengthen that top layer with something like divinycell or timber laminate. Solution - keep em short.

You basically square the thickness and the length in a beam supported at both ends so your, of course it isn't only supported at both ends because the water is under the whole board, but you get the idea.

2" x 6' surfboard would be 2 square/6square = .1 V

and your 3" x 9' mal would be 3 square/9 square = .1 V

and your 4" x 10' SUP would be 4 square/10 square = 0.16 V

and your 4" x 8' SUP would be 4 square/8 square = 0.25 V

This is very simplistic but gives you an idea.

Saying all that in a 4" by 8 or 9 foot board two layers of six on top with reinforcement in the standing area seems to work just fine.

Hope I got this right!! Ronnie.....help
allrounder
allrounder
VIC
157 posts
VIC, 157 posts
8 Oct 2009 3:25pm
I think every one would love a cheap board. Things that people would need to consider is re-sale, as at the moment re-sale can be good with a new sport but retailers and customers are all chasing brand names.
Jedibrad
Jedibrad
NSW
527 posts
NSW, 527 posts
8 Oct 2009 6:09pm





I snapped my board this day... but who cares how much it cost

Brad
lookielookie
lookielookie
QLD
347 posts
QLD, 347 posts
8 Oct 2009 6:15pm
tha dogman said...


where do you get a board for $1000?


ive been selling mine for $1100..no complants yet!!!!
daletor
daletor
VIC
301 posts
VIC, 301 posts
8 Oct 2009 8:02pm
Jedibrad said...






I snapped my board this day... but who cares how much it cost

Brad


Hot photos Brad! Your broken board has become a trophy
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
8 Oct 2009 8:09pm
LSD said...

goatman said...

Yeah where do you get a custom for $1000?

Me?...maybe....just toying with the idea

I have tried to give local makers the heads up on this light board stuff, none are interested.
The way I make my boards is the same as eps/epoxy surfboards, so nothing new any board maker can do it, but they dont, why?

What I'm after here feed back on what riders are prepared to accept.

That green flame board dinted on the deck first surf, it will continue to dint untill the paddling/foot area becomes slightly concave.
I had a ride on Dave Pamenter's board last summer, his had done the same.
The plain weave glass goes into tension & the eps compresses to a point were it is happy to support the continuos standing weight. They dont seem to continue to go concave, they stop at 6mm or so. Its not like polyurithane/polyester where the foam cells actualy crush & stay crushed, then eventualy delam, the eps has a memory to a point, delam takes far longer if ever. Do the finger test to polyester & it leaves a dint, eps comes out.
Guys have riden my dinted decks & remarked how it felt good under foot, the surftech site has a bit on their feps, still eps, they talk of the memory effect & how it's nice to surf on.

I have been very reluctant to go commercial, because of the dint issue, it can be minimised in single skin but not eliminated, going to higher density foam they still dint & add weight defeating the pupose, going to sandwich foot patch is an option but increases cost/labour & other probs.
I have had plenty of guys wanting light boards. The reason for this post is to find out what is acceptable.
The condition report on the lizard I posted some time ago is unchanged, the board still floats & will for years to come.




i personally look at them like my shortboards(which hasn't been used much at all). dents and dings just part of the deal. my latest dc didn't go as well as i had hoped- it not bad, just not real good( tried a few things out than the normal model), so i have gone back to my blue tinted dc. this board i eventually creased after putting it into many pits when lacey's lane was on fire. it was something i knew would happen one day. it was repaired well and i can't pick it to ride. also might add, i have been swapping it and the naish 8 10 all week according to conditions- greenmount this afternoon and lumpy, wedgy alley, 13 th ave and some tally ck. the naish with it heavy rocker for the stronger stuff, but also i think it will handle a thrashing better.enjoying the two boards- lighter, a bit heavier,, wider, narrower,,flater, more rocker,, thruster, 2plusone
anyway, reasonable build and i'll cop the dent, dings and whatever. also, no matter how good a board is, after a while, its time to move on
lacey
Jedibrad
Jedibrad
NSW
527 posts
NSW, 527 posts
8 Oct 2009 10:24pm
That towboard had 3x6 on top and 3x6 on the bottom and whilst the waves were big remember the board is small so less snapping leverage, so any board can snap or delam,which is almost a snap

as far as dints go... not a problem in fact the boards that i lay on all have comfy dints for my ribs
tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
8 Oct 2009 10:43pm
sick shots jedi

as you said who cares that your stick self destructed when your scoring a few bumps like that

a few digs and dints just adds character

fix em up and ride em to death

personally i cant bring myself to get rid of my sticks as i know when you sell it you'll smash your newie and spew that you didnt keep ye old faithful as a backup or 6
Casso
Casso
NSW
3785 posts
NSW, 3785 posts
8 Oct 2009 10:58pm
Heel dents are great. They lower your centre of gravity, give you a reference point for foot placement and just feel comfy all round.

Taj Burrow used to get heel dents sanded into his new boards for the above reasons.

Creases and snappage are not as much fun - but they are very rarely due to faulty construction - more just from unfortunate circumstances.
Jedibrad
Jedibrad
NSW
527 posts
NSW, 527 posts
8 Oct 2009 11:01pm
If your as hard on boards as i am this tip will change your life...

Ding your board no worries, run home, grab the wifes hairdryer, dry the ding

while inside squirt ding with solar resin then cover with glad wrap and smooth to the exact shape, then place in the full sun for 5 mins and pull glad wrap off, no need to sand

back in the water within 30mins
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
8 Oct 2009 10:05pm
Jedibrad said...

If your as hard on boards as i am this tip will change your life...

Ding your board no worries, run home, grab the wifes hairdryer, dry the ding

while inside squirt ding with solar resin then cover with glad wrap and smooth to the exact shape, then place in the full sun for 5 mins and pull glad wrap off, no need to sand

back in the water within 30mins


just be careful which solar resin you use- use the wrong one and you will have a massive hole where foam used to be
tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
8 Oct 2009 11:07pm
nice jedi

i paddle to the car dry with towel

light sand and slop on sun cure and slowly walk back to water with repair in the sun and paddle back out

rough as guts
Bnaccas
Bnaccas
VIC
1722 posts
VIC, 1722 posts
9 Oct 2009 12:22am
Dean I rekon your boards are worth $1000 for the finish and construction.
The finish on DJ's board is the best I have seen of any SUP. Well done!

The problem you'll get if you go into production is people will want things done you
don't always agree with. Longer, narrower, thruster etc. I'd think it would frustrate
the hell out of ya!
Scotty Mac
Scotty Mac
SA
2060 posts
SA, 2060 posts
9 Oct 2009 12:12am
Yer, you can stick single fins up your clacker....

Build them in thrusters and quad and for a grand, you will have an instant market.

I bet it wont be long before your hobby becomes a full time job and then you will be charging $1500 bucks because your sponsored rider (a freak like dogman for instance) will keep sending your sticks back for repair and customers like BP will send you nuts....
tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
9 Oct 2009 1:16am
Scotty Mac said...

Yer, you can stick single fins up your clacker....

Build them in thrusters and quad and for a grand, you will have an instant market.

I bet it wont be long before your hobby becomes a full time job and then you will be charging $1500 bucks because your sponsored rider (a freak like dogman for instance) will keep sending your sticks back for repair and customers like BP will send you nuts....


that made we laugh

sad but true
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
9 Oct 2009 8:39am
Scotty Mac said...

Yer, you can stick single fins up your clacker....

Build them in thrusters and quad and for a grand, you will have an instant market.

I bet it wont be long before your hobby becomes a full time job and then you will be charging $1500 bucks because your sponsored rider (a freak like dogman for instance) will keep sending your sticks back for repair and customers like BP will send you nuts....


Hey Scotty....what sort of fin systems would you recomend for multi fin setup's, Tri plug, future, has FCS made a joined system?
Multi fins setups are next on the proto list....one step at a time.
Cheers
Dean
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
9 Oct 2009 8:47am
Bnaccas said...

Dean I rekon your boards are worth $1000 for the finish and construction.
The finish on DJ's board is the best I have seen of any SUP. Well done!

HEY....THE FINISH WAS DONE DY DJ.....HE'S THE perfection EXPERT!

The problem you'll get if you go into production is people will want things done you
don't always agree with. Longer, narrower, thruster etc. I'd think it would frustrate
the hell out of ya!

I know what you mean, I don't have a problem making what people want, if it's a slug......well bad luck.... thats what they wanted
It can be difficult to interpret peoples ideas in design, or one spec of dirt in a glass job & they want 50% discount


LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
9 Oct 2009 11:23am
450gm double bias Carbon deck patch dint reducer?


Scotty Mac
Scotty Mac
SA
2060 posts
SA, 2060 posts
9 Oct 2009 11:10am
Dean,
Carbon a good idea, i find most of my dents toward the nose on the deck also.
FCS have a box called "fusion" which is great but expensive. Can achieve same thing by setting FCS plug in dyvinicell block but that a bit labour intensive.
I like futures but FCS are more accessable, eaiser to repair and the side screw removes any loose fitting issues. So I would recomment FCS in either fusion or set in hard foam.
Regards,
Scott
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
9 Oct 2009 10:59am
Scotty Mac said...

Dean,
Carbon a good idea, i find most of my dents toward the nose on the deck also.
FCS have a box called "fusion" which is great but expensive. Can achieve same thing by setting FCS plug in dyvinicell block but that a bit labour intensive.
I like futures but FCS are more accessable, eaiser to repair and the side screw removes any loose fitting issues. So I would recomment FCS in either fusion or set in hard foam.
Regards,
Scott



fcs fusion works well in epoxy boards because they come with there own piece of higher density foam to spread the load, ordinary fcs plugs is dodgy. they look like a dog bone. they have a jig for them. i have been happy with them.i have been surfing with sunnies all round using a adapter. next time fcs fusion for a centre fin
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
9 Oct 2009 12:25pm
Check out my high tech solar powered curing oven
Bloody bush mechanic!


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