Now that work is slowing down, I'm starting to think about board design.

I have a flat rockered SUP with big fat rails. It is smoking fast but doesn't seem to hold as well in a hollow wave as my last board which was wider, had fairly big rails, but had much more rocker.

I'm not talking about doing big Dogman buckets, just holding the drive down the line.

Is this because of

1. The flatter rocker.
2. The fat rails.
3. Something to do with the fins.
4. A wider tail
5. a combination of all of above.

I'm not unhappy with the board, just interested as I'm trying to come up with a design to improve on what I have got.

Thanks

Probably as you said above all of the above.

No edge on the tail is common also in SUP boards, that combined with over volumed rails, wide tail and too small fins and you've got no hope of holding in the face down the line or on bottom turns etc.

Try using bigger side fins and see if that helps.

I had a similar problem with my last SUP and did a lot of research elsewhere on the net.
What I came up with was that sharper rails didn't hold as well as a rounder rail.

This doesn't make sense to me but I guess once a sharper rail lets go it would be harder for
it to grab again. I've noticed lately that rails on production boards are getting much more
rounded/softer all the way to the tail which might help limit this problem.

My problem was my rail kept skipping out, almost like bouncing on the face. I haven't had
a chance to build a new one with softer rails. Using bigger side fins make sense as well.

What board/model do you have at the moment
I think it all depends on what waves you are going to be riding
If you can afford it i'd consider working on a quiver
With my shortboards i have a particular 6'2 with plenty of rocker that comes out when its big and sucky
Almost impossibe to nosedive and likes late takeoffs
With SUP' i know the 9'3 Naish has a lot of rocker

billboard said...

CMC said...

Probably as you said above all of the above.

No edge on the tail is common also in SUP boards, that combined with over volumed rails, wide tail and too small fins and you've got no hope of holding in the face down the line or on bottom turns etc.

Try using bigger side fins and see if that helps.

God this makes me sick - but I totally agree. On my longboards over the years if I am ever surfing serious waves I generally drop my centre fin down to say a 6 or 6.5 inch and beef up the sides to m3s. I guess on a sup you could even use bigger sides like m5s or am-2s (my personal favourite) I recently rode a sup in smallish surf with a 6.5 centre and futures 425 sides (not sure of equivalent fcs would be - cmc will know) and even though the surf was small it felt like it would never ever let go no matter how big or sucky the wave - but that board had quite low to medium rails for a sup so the board would have quite a bit of hold and drive anyway despite the fin setup. Surviving a big sucky wave on a sup with big fat boxy rails is never gunna be easy and the fins can only do so much to hold you in there.

If you are talking about the board I think you are then I would try running a 6 to 7 inch centre with 350 or maybe 425 sides. Its a lotta fin but that is a lotta board and that board will definately handle big surf - trust me.

whats going on billboard? are you ok, you are agreeing with a lot of people lately and thats scary
next thing you'll be saying is how much you admire mac's longboarding
ps i owe you mac after that paddle training snipe

Daneli said...

Hi StupidS, the board I'm on is a C4 9'3 Sub Vector. I really like the board and generally only surf it in small or fuller waves as I am now going prone in anything with a bit of juice. However, it just doesn't feel right if the wave hollows up, I surfed a few other SUP's in these conditions which have felt much more comfortable. My longboard goes great. I'd be happy to give up 5% of the speed for a 15% improvement in this area (if that's possible)

Thanks BB, I might play around with the sides. I'm running the stock Futures 375 sides and a 7.0 futures Performance centre fin. I deliberately went futures on the Munro so I can mix & match some fins. That's only a 6.0 cutaway centre but the sides have a much wider base and look to be more flexible. What about running a quad setup? I've never been one to play around to much with fins other than moving the centre fin. I've always relied on the shapers advice and they have always seem to go well.

I'm heading for a wave in the morning but a bit doubtful if there will be much swell.

Edit - BB how is your knee?

Hi Daneli,
The 375's are the quad rears, the bigger 450's are a better combo with the 7"centre.

The Lopez quad fins will add more speed and hold in more hollow waves too, the Subbie 9'3" tends to slide from the tail pretty easily, even with the 7" centre. Fun board in smaller fuller waves, but need to fin it up pretty large for bigger, more hollow waves. Does handle them tho, have had some great sessions on it, just need to keep the tail down.

C4 have focused on bigger sucky waves with the Raimana 9'8, which has come about from testing in Teahupoo. Lot of rocker, swallow tail, channel bottom, hard rails, pretty much everything about it says big, fast, hollow waves.

Daneli said...

Hi StupidS, the board I'm on is a C4 9'3 Sub Vector. I really like the board and generally only surf it in small or fuller waves as I am now going prone in anything with a bit of juice. However, it just doesn't feel right if the wave hollows up, I surfed a few other SUP's in these conditions which have felt much more comfortable. My longboard goes great. I'd be happy to give up 5% of the speed for a 15% improvement in this area (if that's possible)

I owned that board last year. Tons of them in the line-up last year. Several of us had the same issue. The Futures Controllers were a good setup on that board. Some even went with the even larger Gerry Lopez quads, but then loss of speed and drag kicked in. That board needs big fins to make up for the chunky rails lack of grip.

That 9'3 Sub Vector is a great board, I had a good surf on one at Tally creek a while back with Sam. I would have liked bigger fins that day as well.

This morning I rode a board much smaller than what I have ridden before for any length of time. Actually I paddled out on this board once and had my regular SUP in the car also. I caught one wave, paddled in and got my other board.

This morning I took it for another chance. The board is 8'6 x 28 x 4 (normally ride a 9'3) super super light, around 6kg. Rounded Pin, Bamboo laminated custom quad. The last time I rode it the board had M5 fronts and M3 centers in the rear, felt no drive whatsoever. Hated it. Forgot about it.

This morning I put in MRTFX fronts and some Epoxy Glass Inside foil prototype FCS 5 template sides. Apart from the fact I had some challenges staying upright paddling at times this was amazing. On most waves I forgot I was on a SUP, it felt just like my shortboard, loved the pocket, reacted the same way off bottom, the rebound and off the top. I would normally prefer a bigger board but I must admit the way this thing surfed in gutless waist high waves was amazing.

I guess my point is: The fins I used in this board by most standards of what people ride are very large. Don't be scared to add some fin area to a board to get it moving down the line, you'll be able to hold your turns on rail longer and surf steeper parts of the wave with confidence. I look at a lot of peoples fin set ups and can't help thinking many of them would surf better with some drive.


P.S I seen Billboard out there and after many years of ignoring each other in the real world we actually said hello.. It must be Christmas.........