I accidentally posted this in the review section, home with sick kids.

Im posing this question for every one to have a good think about.

The question is,
Is Carbon Fibre needed/neccessary for wave/surfing SUP boards?

It appears that most international brands as well as Aussie brands now offer carbon fibre layup on their wave/surfing SUP boards.

Their reasoning for using carbon I can a only pressume is for
the light weight and increase in stiffness that carbon fibre supplys.

We can all appreciate a lighter weight for surfing, especially as we
ride large SUP boards.

Using carbon fibre to stiffen a surfing board makes no sense to me.

Stiffening a surfing board is a negative effect not a positive efect.

The main reason I think PU/PE (standard surfboards) surfboards are still
so popular, is the quality of flex that this construction offers.
It is a feel that we, most of us have grown up with.

I think that surfing boards need FLEX, to respond quickly through turns, this makes the board feel lighter and looser and faster.

But so much of surfing a board is a subjective feeling.

The point I'm trying to make is that a flexible board goes/feels better than a stiff board.

I know that the sectional thickness of SUP boards, engineering wise, makes them stiff or rigid. But there can still be some flex or vibration in the thick SUP boards that we surf.

You just have to want to put flex or vibration into a SUP board.

So what do you think? Take a bit of time to run it thru that wave program in your head first.

Regards
Boardbumps

If you have a 120 litre shaped foam blank and did the standard double 6oz lay up in normal resin (apx 4kg) or you glass the same blank with carbon and epoxy (apx 2kg) straight away the carbon board will support more weight and float higher in the water.

i know some of the top sponsored guy are surfing them well, but i agree with flex issue. that how a board works- loaded up and release.


i think people think because their light they can throw them around- dish panning i suggest.

now before i get shot to pieces why aren't the pro shortboarders using carbon- answer no or the wrong flex or feel. if it really worked they would be using carbon .

you have firewire, dms,hayden all working to get the right flex in their boards.

yet some sup companies are going carbon sups. i reckon it's a hangover from windsurfing.

sups certainly do flex. i remember testing flex with dale for a new board one time - my favourite blue 8'8, believe or not i surfed that board for a quite a while. we flexed a normal epoxy board, a divinycell stringer epoxy board and a top and bottom carbon stripped stringer epoxy board.

we felt the carbon stripped board had the nicest flex pattern

log man said...
Everyone knows that carbon fibre is better that glass. Why is it better.......well it just is!........it's the criss cross pattern.....and that

Haha.... Yes.... Stiffness.... Weight.... Etc etc...

y board performed raelly well this morning! i think it was because I was wearing boardies and not a wettie!!!!
ET.

Re the degree of flex found in a SUP, I am still not convinced that it plays much of a role. A pro riding a 2 1/4" thick board with one layer of 4 oz would definitely notice the flex but a 4 1/2" SUP with 2-3 layers on the deck?

The weight of a SUP plays a huge role in high performance surfing in waves under 2 x overhead IMO. Nothing to do with dispanning, but a lot to do with responsiveness and acceleration, not to mention swing weight through a non carving turn - eg reos, foam bounces, even airs (for some).

Modern SUP manoeuvres are starting to resemble shortboard style tight snaps where the board rotates 180 degrees through most turns - much harder to achieve on a heavy SUP.

I reckon if you can afford it carbon is a great choice for a lightweight SUP but only if combined with normal glass (ideally S glass) to improve impact resistance. My gun has a full layer of carbon top and bottom (plus normal glass) but this was about improving stiffness to avoid snappage and so far so good.

My short SUPs are all conventional glass and weight in around the low 5 kilos before fins and deck grip. I actually believe that if you are after that nice flexy rebound feel you can achieve that to a degree, using plastic fins with tonnes of flex (don't laugh).

well i still reckon flex is important. its the type of flex. a soggy limp flex isn't go to be good.

a rock hard snap is much good either.

i think its 'rebound' quality is the key.


talking about weight is entirely off the subject lads. of course light is better

a few years ago a sup i was surf had water which at the time i did know. i was surfing tally and i went across some chop. i was blown away by the amount of flex i could feel due to the amount of water in the board. that's when i realised the board had water.

the board flexed like crazy, but was slow to come back because the water slowed it down.


ps i never liked starboard sups because they were so dead to surf no matter how small they were. i believe due to their stiffness

Maybe you guys just need some decent shapes to ride. I'm def not from a windsurfing background.

62mac said...

laceys lane said...



ps i never liked starboard sups because they were so dead to surf no matter how small they were. i believe due to their stiffness

So what the hell were you surfing the other week portboard

we are talking surf sups here mac. completely different ballpark to race boards.

i'm stunned to see cmc do a almighty backflip from the last 2 years of being the greatest pro advocate of sup flex to be honest.

must be something in the air in thailand

Carbon fibers have high tensile strength, this means the "sandwich" that is the whole board (deck, blank, hull) flexes less much. However, this is what I can say from my limited experience (I have 4 full 100% carbon, non-sandwich, boards, and 3 with a carbon sheet on deck & rails on a bamboo layer):
- it still flexes a bit, and more importantly, conserves a lot the energy, which is not dampened as with glass. It has a very good "spring effect", while not having the "wobbles" of long & thin PVC sandwich boards (less flex amplitude).
- if not used in a sandwich construction, on a lightweight blank, the top skin flexes under your feet, giving some "organic" feel under your feet, not the "dead wood" feeling on some too hard PVC sandwich skins. These boards do not feel at all like your "windsurfing stiff" PVC sandwich boards.

I found (and others around me) that these carbon boards amplify your surf. Insane speed, reactivity (lightness!), but also very tiring, you have to be 100% commited. Half carbon boards are more friendly, expecially when tired, but still give a very precise and controled ride on long & thin shapes.

So, in my opinion, carbon fiber SUP are really interesting. Mandatory? no. Worth it? depends on your budget. Good for contests? I dunno, competitors may want something more tolerant.
My advice if you want one would be to select the shape in your quiver that you would take for perfect conditions, when feeling totally fit, and have this board made in carbon.

To get the flex that I want in my boards I don't use carbon, instead I use timber veneer.

The timber supplies a lot of advantages:
improved flexural response.
flexural memory.
and simply the best compressive strength available (dent proofing)
impact resistance (dings)

I use a 2mm thick veneer not commonly available.
The most common sized/used veneer is .6mm, timber or bamboo.

I only put the timber on the decks of boards.

My Eglass designs have a lot more flex in them and are slightly lighter (around 700 grams depending on size) but I do get deck dents.

SUP boards can get a lot more flex in them than you think. The main reason is because the boards are long at around 8ft+, this is a long lever.

When I talk about board weights they are complete weights with fins and deck grip ready to surf.
Not cheat weights of hull only, we went thru that in the early windsurf days.