Depth of water and effect on flatwater speed

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PeterP
PeterP
873 posts
873 posts
14 Sep 2011 9:50pm
I have read some of the posts with indication of ave. speeds reached during various races.

It is obviously impossible to directly compare speeds from one venue on one day to another venue on another day due to effects of wind, tide, current etc.

We've found that depth of water does effect speed - but how much? I see race reports where averages in excess of 10km/h for 14ft boards over 5km distances or longer are quoted - we race timetrials at a number of venues and cannot get anywhere near those speeds, even going flat out on much shorter courses.

Some of our venues are canals which are current free and relatively wind protected but the water level does change depending on how much rain and pump action there has been going on. We definitely see better times when we have more water but it rarely gets deeper than 1-1.5m, if that. Windy days also seem to shave off 0.4 - 0.5km/h....

Does anyone know how much waterdepth affects boat-speed - cause we just feel really bad that we're so far behind you guys.......






BillyT
BillyT
WA
17 posts
WA, 17 posts
15 Sep 2011 7:50am
Boats or ships interact with the seabed when they are underway. You end up with something called squat where the water being forced between the bottom and the hull causes it to be drawn downwards. It's a principle they taught us early on to make sure you dont scratch your hull paint off on the bottom of the harbour!
I don't know if something with as small displacement as a board could do it but who knows - it might just happen on a smaller scale. I work in shipping/ports and you can see it when the larger ships go through shallower areas or channels - their stern seems to hang a bit lower in the water.
meahuna
meahuna
QLD
19 posts
QLD, 19 posts
15 Sep 2011 10:17am
Short answer, yes. Here's some good reading on the topic.

http://www.surfski.info/getting-started/tips-other/item/1279-the-science-of-paddling-part-iv.html
BillyT
BillyT
WA
17 posts
WA, 17 posts
15 Sep 2011 8:47am
Good article - glad I had my coffee before trying to read!
PeterP
PeterP
873 posts
873 posts
16 Sep 2011 2:19pm
yes - very good article indeed! Could someone translate it into what effect a waterdepth of 1.5m has on the speed of a 14ft board. My estimate from reading article is that it could be as much as 1km/h? Which is around 10% - so quite substantial over distance.

We'll have to go and find some deeper waters....or just be content with our resistance training....
Piros
Piros
QLD
7305 posts
QLD, 7305 posts
16 Sep 2011 8:52pm
Here is a simple translation , I learnt this from paddling & steering a 44ft 6 man outrigger canoe , the bow pushes forward and down a bow pressure wave if it' too shallow that pressure wave bounces off the bottom and rebounds off the boat creating drag pulling on the stern which makes your hull put out a larger pressure wave and creating even more drag. It's like car racing the shortest line is not always the fastest , so it may be faster to take the long way round and avoid the shallow water in a race.

The shorter the hull the shallower you can go. A 12-6 Sup will paddle faster in some cases in shallow water than a 14' or 17'.

Next time you are are out paddle over the edge of a sandbank from 6ft to 1 foot and you will feel the board die , keep doing this until you work out what depth you can cut the corner of the sand bank without loosing glide.

laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
16 Sep 2011 9:06pm
Piros said...

Here is a simple translation , I learnt this from paddling & steering a 44ft 6 man outrigger canoe , the bow pushes forward and down a bow pressure wave if it' too shallow that pressure wave bounces off the bottom and rebounds off the boat creating drag pulling on the stern which makes your hull put out a larger pressure wave and creating even more drag. It's like car racing the shortest line is not always the fastest , so it may be faster to take the long way round and avoid the shallow water in a race.

The shorter the hull the shallower you can go. A 12-6 Sup will paddle faster in some cases in shallow water than a 14' or 17'.

Next time you are are out paddle over the edge of a sandbank from 6ft to 1 foot and you will feel the board die , keep doing this until you work out what depth you can cut the corner of the sand bank without loosing glide.




uncanny sir, i was thinking the same think- water bouncing back up at the board/craft
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
16 Sep 2011 11:19pm
Shallow water slows you down heaps.

Also, cross winds will slow you down. A little cross chop makes you concentrate more... Plus it will push you off course, forcing you to do some correction strokes, and slowing you down.
Piros
Piros
QLD
7305 posts
QLD, 7305 posts
16 Sep 2011 11:30pm
It's all about hydrodynamics Lacey and what's called the Bernoulli effect.

See below:

Warning don't go to this link if you have been drinking This is what it looks like:
H the water depth. In units of knots and feet, FNH = 0.297 VKT / (HFT)0.5. In knots and meters, FNH = 0.164 VKT / (HM)0.5.

://www.hydrocompinc.com/knowledge/whitepapers/HC124-ShallowWater.pdf
HumanCartoon
HumanCartoon
VIC
2098 posts
VIC, 2098 posts
17 Sep 2011 12:07am
Piros said...

It's all about hydrodynamics Lacey and what's called the Bernoulli effect.

See below:

Warning don't go to this link if you have been drinking This is what it looks like:
H the water depth. In units of knots and feet, FNH = 0.297 VKT / (HFT)0.5. In knots and meters, FNH = 0.164 VKT / (HM)0.5.

://www.hydrocompinc.com/knowledge/whitepapers/HC124-ShallowWater.pdf


oops, I missed the word "don't" at the very front of "don't go to this link if you have been drinking"
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