Fibreglass paddles

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akhawk
akhawk
WA
1085 posts
WA, 1085 posts
8 Apr 2011 5:11pm
I'm having some rotator cuff shoulder problems and thinking of going a fibreglass shaft with greater flex to reduce the strain on the shoulders. Has anyone tried fibreglass paddles and got any thoughts?
I was thinking of the jimmy lewis paddle which is fibreglass and based on a quickblade which is obviously a proven design and shape.
Piros
Piros
QLD
7303 posts
QLD, 7303 posts
8 Apr 2011 7:20pm
Just get the smaller Quickblade it will put less pressure on your shoulder.
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
8 Apr 2011 7:25pm
akhawk said...

I'm having some rotator cuff shoulder problems and thinking of going a fibreglass shaft with greater flex to reduce the strain on the shoulders. Has anyone tried fibreglass paddles and got any thoughts?
I was thinking of the jimmy lewis paddle which is fibreglass and based on a quickblade which is obviously a proven design and shape.


dale brought some paddles in that have an extremely flexy shaft with a shaka like blade. it was noticably easier on the shoulders and we found in a flatwater distance paddle whoever had that paddle when we had turns of it was generally in front, but lacked the pulling power in a down winder. hope that helps
cheers
snappy
snappy
NSW
66 posts
NSW, 66 posts
8 Apr 2011 7:28pm
I had the same problem a year ago so I switched to a Jimmy Lewis fibreglass paddle for a couple of weeks while I was on holidays and surfing every day.
Fixed the problem almost straight away.I've been using my C4 carbon paddle ever since no problems.
Good luck.
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
8 Apr 2011 5:33pm
Did you think about addressing your paddling method? I.e. treat the cause not the symptom? I've got no idea on the whole mechanics behind SUPG paddling, but e.g. a few years ago a paddling expert posted a thread on another forum that helped a lot of guys increase efficiency and decrease pain. I had a shoulder reco a few years back due to bad habits in certain activities and the whole thing turned out to be an interesting exercise in how badly I was doing those activities. Basically I created the problem in the first place from those habits - result - weird and painful bone and tendon issues.
lost at sea
lost at sea
WA
358 posts
WA, 358 posts
8 Apr 2011 5:41pm
it might pay to hold off, an check out the new starboard flex paddles the pictures i have seen, they hmmm? could be alright !!!!!
akhawk
akhawk
WA
1085 posts
WA, 1085 posts
8 Apr 2011 5:50pm
Legion said...

Did you think about addressing your paddling method? I.e. treat the cause not the symptom? I've got no idea on the whole mechanics behind SUPG paddling, but e.g. a few years ago a paddling expert posted a thread on another forum that helped a lot of guys increase efficiency and decrease pain. I had a shoulder reco a few years back due to bad habits in certain activities and the whole thing turned out to be an interesting exercise in how badly I was doing those activities. Basically I created the problem in the first place from those habits - result - weird and painful bone and tendon issues.


I'm looking at that too. Can always improve technique and hoping to get out with a great local paddler who is also a physio to look at technique from both paddling and phyio perspective.
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
8 Apr 2011 7:57pm
akhawk said...

Legion said...

Did you think about addressing your paddling method? I.e. treat the cause not the symptom? I've got no idea on the whole mechanics behind SUPG paddling, but e.g. a few years ago a paddling expert posted a thread on another forum that helped a lot of guys increase efficiency and decrease pain. I had a shoulder reco a few years back due to bad habits in certain activities and the whole thing turned out to be an interesting exercise in how badly I was doing those activities. Basically I created the problem in the first place from those habits - result - weird and painful bone and tendon issues.


I'm looking at that too. Can always improve technique and hoping to get out with a great local paddler who is also a physio to look at technique from both paddling and phyio perspective.


i was thinking that too, but looks like your on to it
chrispychru
chrispychru
QLD
7932 posts
QLD, 7932 posts
8 Apr 2011 8:05pm
oh those bad habits hurtin your shoulder, explains alot get you....
Legion said...

Did you think about addressing your paddling method? I.e. treat the cause not the symptom? I've got no idea on the whole mechanics behind SUPG paddling, but e.g. a few years ago a paddling expert posted a thread on another forum that helped a lot of guys increase efficiency and decrease pain. I had a shoulder reco a few years back due to bad habits in certain activities and the whole thing turned out to be an interesting exercise in how badly I was doing those activities. Basically I created the problem in the first place from those habits - result - weird and painful bone and tendon issues.


Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
8 Apr 2011 6:13pm
Que?
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
8 Apr 2011 6:20pm
akhawk said...

Legion said...

Did you think about addressing your paddling method? I.e. treat the cause not the symptom? I've got no idea on the whole mechanics behind SUPG paddling, but e.g. a few years ago a paddling expert posted a thread on another forum that helped a lot of guys increase efficiency and decrease pain. I had a shoulder reco a few years back due to bad habits in certain activities and the whole thing turned out to be an interesting exercise in how badly I was doing those activities. Basically I created the problem in the first place from those habits - result - weird and painful bone and tendon issues.


I'm looking at that too. Can always improve technique and hoping to get out with a great local paddler who is also a physio to look at technique from both paddling and phyio perspective.


For me, it was due to shrugging. I'd shrug in some kind of subconscious belief that it'd put me in a stronger mechanical position. I still have to be careful not to do it, it's ingrained now. An excellent sports doc showed me that shrugging offers little or no benefits and gave me exercises to train me out of it. But the damage was already done, so after several years I went for the knife. Got a cool video too. Nowadays I'm much more aware of my shoulder position, and much more aware of what might cause damage.

I also developed strong major shoulder muscles while neglecting minor stabilisers that were important to effective motion.

What are your shoulders doing? Is that what they're supposed to do? Can you transfer load into your back or torso? Something to think about.
akhawk
akhawk
WA
1085 posts
WA, 1085 posts
8 Apr 2011 6:39pm
My initial problem came from paddling in the oc6 with my elbow too high. Years ago I also used to do a lot of weight training focusing on heavier weights for lower reps. Perhaps its all catching up with me.
I'm now focusing on strengthening the stabilising muscles using a series of exercises from the physio using resistance bands.
Mask
Mask
WA
293 posts
WA, 293 posts
8 Apr 2011 7:27pm
Constructive, sensible input from Legion. WTF?
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
8 Apr 2011 7:55pm
akhawk said...

Years ago I also used to do a lot of weight training focusing on heavier weights for lower reps.

I still do, but rarely to failure and far less overall volume than once. Once I'd train medium reps, medium weights, to failure, many exercises on the same groups. Bad idea. Also any bench, shoulder or overhead presses. Particularly the overhead and shoulder presses encourage shrugging. I still bench heavy, but very carefully and strictly.

akhawk said...

I'm now focusing on strengthening the stabilising muscles using a series of exercises from the physio using resistance bands.

Three exercises that help me.

(i) Flex your shoulder blade, just one side. I don't remember how it was described to me years ago, but now it feels to me like I'm pulling back, down and towards my spine. You will involuntarily flex your pectoralis major. The goal is not to. In order to not activate the pectoralis, you will need to start with a very, very minor flex, hardly at all. You want to isolate the muscle that assists with the deltoids and latissimus dorsi. I think it's the teres minor (and maybe major). I can do it very easily now, after many, many reps. I used to do 100 per side. It's easiest sitting or lying so you have some resistance and can feel what's happening. After a long, long time, you'll be able to flex the crap out of it without activating the pectoralis at all.

(ii) One arm straight arm pushups. Start leaning against the wall. Keep your arm straight. Just use your shoulder and move it backwards and forwards to get the action happening. Keep your elbow locked, all movement comes from the shoulder joint. Once or twice per set, shrug heavily then drop to the correct position just to remind you what's right and what's wrong. I'd do 30 per side. As you get better, transition to e.g. a strong bench or couch back (i.e. a steeper incline), then eventually to the floor.

(iii) Take an unstable weight of about 2kg to start. I used old 3L plastic milk bottles with water. Hold in one hand at shoulder height right in front of your shoulder, elbow down next to your side. Step forward with the opposite leg, doing a lunge. As you lunge, reach forward. Step back, reach back. Repeat for e.g. 30 reps. Occasionally shrug as before to remind yourself what's right and what's wrong. As you get used to this exercise, vary it by reaching all around an imaginary circle on the lunge (reach up, reach down, reach across both sides, diagonal directions, etc). You can also vary the start position, sometimes next to the shoulder to the side, sometimes high, sometimes low. Fill up the bottle a bit more over time. 3L is about as much as my stabilisers can handle.

YMMV, IANAD.
ianm
ianm
WA
50 posts
WA, 50 posts
8 Apr 2011 8:06pm
The flexi-jimmy lewis padddle is the go..the flex is the go..easy on the bod...great surfing aid..it works.
aus301
aus301
QLD
2039 posts
QLD, 2039 posts
8 Apr 2011 10:31pm
I have had a shoulder reconstruction and occasionally get a bit of pain through that area.

Those that have said technique are right on the money, it will go a long way to helping and even strengthening the whole capsule area.

Also to help I did two things, bought a top quality paddle, not sure this helped but I will continue to tell my wife it did. And cut the paddle shaft a bit shorter. I only took about an inch off but it made a huge difference to my shoulder pain issues. Just for reference I use a QB Kanaha with the 90sq/in blade.
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
8 Apr 2011 9:13pm
Also, think about moving your range of motion away from your shoulder. Pretend you're standing shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of other Egyptian slaves building a pyramid. The guy to your left or right side passes you a limestone block, you twist your torso to grab it, then twist to the other side to hand it off. You don't stand there and reach out to grab it then stand statically and reach to the other side. You turn and your body lifts. I do a lot of stuff in martial arts that involves using the body rather than using the limbs. I reckon I could get a lot of paddle stroke without moving my shoulders whatsoever. Watch elite boxers, they don't reach much at all, it all comes from the body and rotation. Watch an axeman at the Royal Show, it's all body rotation. Some of them are little skinny guys but with good mechanics, the body does the work. Watch a rower, the power comes from the legs and the hinge at the pelvis (i.e. the lower back pulls through), not from the arms. Shoulders are a complex, crappy, weak joint and movement in them should be avoided IMHO.

It's much easier for you guys standing up, but I've applied certain principles like this to normal paddling and even swimming. Move away from small weak muscles (arms, shoulders) and move towards larger, stronger muscles (back, stomach). Move away from weak joints (elbows, shoulders) and move towards versatile, flexible joints (spine)*. In weights, move away from stupid, weak, individual muscle groups in isolation (curls, machines) and move towards full body integration with complex lifts (powerlifts, Olympic lifts)**. You function with more strength and recover faster.

* The spine/lower back are extremely important IMHO. I pay quite a bit of attention to strengthening and care of them. People are scared of them but they offer so much it's worth making sure they're in optimum condition.

** You can use isolation exercises to correct deficiencies.
hilly
hilly
WA
8132 posts
WA, 8132 posts
8 Apr 2011 9:23pm
Feck frenchie you are right on the money there. Not bad for a hater
akhawk
akhawk
WA
1085 posts
WA, 1085 posts
8 Apr 2011 11:10pm
One thing to consider is that stand up paddle is such a new sport and no one knows the effects of long term wear and tear on the body from this form of paddling. I've found a lot more resistance in sup than oc paddling and I don't know what effect this will have over a long period of time. I want to still be enjoying and comfortably paddling in 20 years time and not just for the short time.
Please correct me if I am wrong though.
hilly
hilly
WA
8132 posts
WA, 8132 posts
9 Apr 2011 5:19am
Lots of stuff on technique out there. I used to get very sore shoulders thought it was normal. Played around with technique using straight arms and more back than arm and the pain went away and I got faster. Paddle quality and length are factors too. Legion is right in what he says. Kalamas blog is excellent for technique.

Best description I have heard is use the same muscles as you would if you are trying to lift a heavy tall object in a bear hug. Like pulling a tree out of the ground. You do not use your arms apart from gripping.

The other issue you have Adam is you do not go out for ages then do a long paddle no wonder you are sore. More paddling will help your technique and fitness.
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
9 Apr 2011 10:11am
hilly said...

Best description I have heard is use the same muscles as you would if you are trying to lift a heavy tall object in a bear hug. Like pulling a tree out of the ground. You do not use your arms apart from gripping.

Yes! Much better than my longwinded analogies.
akhawk
akhawk
WA
1085 posts
WA, 1085 posts
10 Apr 2011 12:23pm
Thanks for all the suggestions regarding technique and shoulder exercises. From an equipment perspective, when choosing a paddle for distance paddling it seems like there are a number of factors to consider:
Blade size
Blade angle
Shaft length
Shaft flex
All these factors are going to effect load on the shoulders and make it hard when choosing the right paddle. Do you go a smaller blade and stiffer shaft? or bigger blade and more flex in shaft? Longer shaft, smaller blade etc. So many factors to consider.
What also makes it hard is that it seems hard to demo paddles whereas most places will allow you to demo boards.
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