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How to stand/crouch/bend zee knees when surfing

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Created by cantSUPenough 1 month ago, 18 Feb 2020
cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
18 Feb 2020 10:42AM
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Every now again when surfing I wonder if I look like a surfer or a guy doing a p@@

In theory, you drop down the wave and as you approach the bottom turn you bend your knees and spring back up to launch the board back up the wave whilst leaning into the turn. When you see a real surfer do it it is smooth, effortless, and they get a lot of extra speed. And they look like a surfer.

Some people bend their knees and they don't spring back up. Some people crouch and don't look as if they could spring back up. And some people look like they are laying an egg.

Sometimes I turn the board simply because I place my weight such that the board turns - but my weight is pretty much straight up and down - I am steering the board. Othertimes I properly lean forward and out, perhaps with a lot of weight on my paddle, and it feels real. But you better be very familiar with the board and have your feet in the right place or you will put too much weight out there or not enough...

I am an engineer. I need a written procedure for how to do this. Is my back straight up-down or leaning forward? Where should my bum be? What should the angles be between my shins, thighs and torso? Am I squatting, bending, coiling, crouching, or what?

Colas and STC, I expect stick figure diagrams that include the position of the surfer's centre of gravity

If you watch this video you can see the difference between the coaches and the learners. But I am having trouble pinpointing the exact process to make this work...

.be&__s=3gq5cxdunshd22v973tz

rockmagnet
QLD, 1348 posts
18 Feb 2020 10:17AM
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Good post. I've been told at times I am bent over standing in the middle of the board and I believe this comes from not getting my back foot far enough back. Old habits die hard but I have been trying.
Steering the board from the middle always felt comfortable going straight down the line but it has the problem of not being in control of the board for cut backs and hard turns.
I think there's a position vacant for sup coaches out in surf correcting bad posture before it becomes an entrenched habit.

bobajob
QLD, 1376 posts
18 Feb 2020 1:32PM
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I think its all to do with these three little words "move you feet"!
I ride a 9'2' Allwave which is a beast of a thing but depending on what you are doing determines where your feet should be. The rest should follow. If your setting up for a turn your thoughts should be firstly to get that back foot back then move both feet closer to the wave face side of the centre line***, how far depends on how hard you want to turn.
I quite often find myself hanging 10, and that's on a bottom turn of a more decent wave! That is 10 toes on the right rail getting the big ol girl to dig and lay over.
I'm sure supthecreek has videos on feet movement. I think once you get your foot placement right your body language should begin to improve.


*** Unless your talkin' a cut back.

rockmagnet
QLD, 1348 posts
18 Feb 2020 4:20PM
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Select to expand quote
bobajob said..
I think its all to do with these three little words "move you feet"!
I ride a 9'2' Allwave which is a beast of a thing but depending on what you are doing determines where your feet should be. The rest should follow. If your setting up for a turn your thoughts should be firstly to get that back foot back then move both feet closer to the wave face side of the centre line***, how far depends on how hard you want to turn.
I quite often find myself hanging 10, and that's on a bottom turn of a more decent wave! That is 10 toes on the right rail getting the big ol girl to dig and lay over.
I'm sure supthecreek has videos on feet movement. I think once you get your foot placement right your body language should begin to improve.


*** Unless your talkin' a cut back.





I think you may have misunderstood me. I've surfed for many years and suped for 10 years. Just have some bad habits which I fall back into sometimes and having the flexibility of a plank doesn't help.

stehar
NSW, 301 posts
18 Feb 2020 6:05PM
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Arthritis has an effect on springiness and drive - leaning into turn with paddle brace is good, a few springy turns after knee execises and athritis cream does make you feel good - local physio and chiro know me ( and they surf ) ---- keeping me in the SUP LIFESTYLE - the older I get, the more maitenence I seem to need, but must keep this up -- like an older model car -- look after and will go forever, sort of! Steve

LastSupper
VIC, 187 posts
18 Feb 2020 11:12PM
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Being able to weight and unweight helps a little ! Stand tall go fast stand small engages the rail ! When tall happens you r surfing

bobajob
QLD, 1376 posts
19 Feb 2020 6:47AM
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Select to expand quote
rockmagnet said..

bobajob said..
I think its all to do with these three little words "move you feet"!
I ride a 9'2' Allwave which is a beast of a thing but depending on what you are doing determines where your feet should be. The rest should follow. If your setting up for a turn your thoughts should be firstly to get that back foot back then move both feet closer to the wave face side of the centre line***, how far depends on how hard you want to turn.
I quite often find myself hanging 10, and that's on a bottom turn of a more decent wave! That is 10 toes on the right rail getting the big ol girl to dig and lay over.
I'm sure supthecreek has videos on feet movement. I think once you get your foot placement right your body language should begin to improve.


*** Unless your talkin' a cut back.






I think you may have misunderstood me. I've surfed for many years and suped for 10 years. Just have some bad habits which I fall back into sometimes and having the flexibility of a plank doesn't help.


Sorry, it wasn't directed to any one in particular, just a general opinion/ observation in the theme of the thread....

OkiWild
31 posts
19 Feb 2020 11:46AM
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Smooth, flowing surfing is about letting the board dance.


When I used to race enduro/motocross, on fast sections of trail or in the whoops, the fastest way through is to let the bike dance under you. You give inputs and add corrections to get it to do what you want, but if you try to force it, all that happens is you get tired, and/or wad it up. Biggest factor: Stay over the bike.


Power, speed, and flow in surfing is much the same. Since moving to SUP, a major hurdle for me with the bigger board was getting over forcing things. It feels ugly, it's tiring, and you just end up in the water. Once I came around to the fact that it's just not going to work like a shortboard, and dialed it way back, things got much, much better.


Crouching: Two things here. One is lowering the center of mass (balance), the other is storing energy. Stored energy can simply be a part of the flow. Enter "the dance." Board goes up, body (knees, waist, ankles, neck) compresses. Board goes down, everything extends. Or it can be a part of imparting power to the board in a quick release; compress going into the bottom turn, and extend coming out to add energy for moving forward or climbing back up the wave face. Then compress again while going up the wave face. This not only "coils the spring," but it lets the board "float," so it doesn't burn as much energy climbing the wave face. Then coming around the top where the board will try to stall, extend, putting energy (drive) back into keeping the board moving forward. "The dance" is recovering energy where it's given, and giving it back where it's needed, without forcing things. A really hard snap off the top isn't really forced. When done correctly, the board follows the direction of the input, the wave pushes it around, and the body follows. Trick is knowing where the board is going, and keeping the body over it.


How well this is done is simply a matter of time and experience. Some catch on quick, and some will never get it. Beginners can't be expected to "feel" the wave and board, and dance to it. Those with poor knees, etc., can't be expected to put large amounts of stored energy into a turn. The one thing everyone can do to look and feel better is, within reason, to not only keep the center of mass directly over the board, but to keep the mass as close to center as possible. During a hard bottom turn, we might be leaning on the paddle, and the CM might shift off the center of the board a little, but not as much as people might think, and you would never put mass over the high side in order to counter mass put over the low side. "Ugly" surfing that is often seen in beginners is when they try to lower the CG by bending too much at the waist. They counter this by sticking the butt out. CG is lower, and CM may still be centered, but mass is spread latterly. It's more stable than having all the mass directly in the middle, but most consider it ugly. As people get more used to a twitchy board, the more they will tend to move the mass back to the center. Why they don't compress and extend is simply a matter of experience and practice. Feeling the board, and dancing to what it's doing. Give it an input, know what it's going to do, and stay over it.



Bending at the knees. When you bend at the knees, the waist, ankles and neck will also hinge, but you can keep the mass as close to center as possible. IMO this makes for beautiful, good feeling surfing. However, the knees will usually bend forward (towards the front of the board, mostly with the rear knee bent more. Makes sense, as the rear leg is the one that's going to store and release the most energy. The knees also want to come closer together. With a too-wide stance, the rear knee will bend in a different direction, and the knees will spread. Beginner stance often has the front knee going forward, and the rear knee going rearward. Poop stance. Like taking a squat. Feet closer together looks beautiful, but isn't functional in a hard turn. Enter the step-back on the rear foot right before a hard turn. Getting really complex now, which is why it takes many years to get it all put together. Add to that a wide SUP, where you also need to move the feet right and left. A beginner is simply trying not to fall off, and going for stability. Compressing and extending, moving around, etc., comes much later. Got bad knees? Then stand up straight and foot steer. Not a lot of compression and extension, but still beautiful surfing when the feet aren't spread a mile apart, and mass is kept close to the center of the board. Steering a surfboard starts with an input from the feet. You just won't be able to complete some hard turns without imparting energy to the board. So what? Still beautiful and flowing. Leaning should be a reaction to stay over the board. Much like a motorcycle, a turn doesn't start by leaning off of the bike, it starts with an input to the handlebars. The bike starts to lean over, and the body follows to stay above it. When racing, and in a turn, you can then lean your mass well off of the center, the purpose of which is to lower CG, "pulling" mass that wants to stand up, down. We do the same with our paddle on a bottom turn. Properly done, we can put mass lower than could normally be done, making a tighter turn on a larger board possible. Once again, "ugly" surfing involves trying to turn a board with movement of the upper torso; knees locked, feet planted, turning the torso back and forth. Input, board follows, body follows.


Not to be clich?, but if it feels good, it is good. I love seeing the smile on an adult beginner when they get that first wave. It's infectious, and one of the great pleasures of surfing for me; seeing other people really enjoy it. We can all strive to look better at it, up the skill level, etc., but it needs to be for our own satisfaction. Yea, I have an Insta and a Youtube, but only because I'm a team rider with those obligations. If it was all about what others thought, I wouldn't be on a SUP Speaking of which, another great part of SUP is with the stigma, most have nothing to prove, and it makes for a much friendlier bunch. But I digress.




My biggest hangup is the barrel. It's sooooo much harder than on a shortboard, and I still can't figure out what to do with the accessories Getting better, but man has it been a challenge. My goal for this year is to finally get the nerve up to take the SUP into some really fat typhoon slabs. I've asked the questions, but answers are wanting... The only help seems to be just bucking up and hucking it. Trial by fire, so to speak.That was a lot to type. I'm not telling anyone how to surf, and many will have other ideas on how it all works. It's an individual thing, and if you're happy, that's really all that matters. I hope it helps someone.

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
19 Feb 2020 6:42PM
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Thank you - you're a champion for taking the time and sharing your knowledge and experience! I for one really appreciate it. This is exactly what I was hoping for.

Sometimes when I surf it feels great, I grin from ear to ear, I can see the spray, and I get some speed. Other times it just feels like I am forcing it and I struggle to recapture the flow.

Your post was excellent.

I have two surf trips this year: Indo and PNG. I am also hoping to get barreled. Every time I have tried in the past I just get smacked in the head by the lip or the board gets dragged up the face and it does not end well. And if that does not happen I tuck in but find I am 2m in front of the barrel. I rarely see my home breaks barrel.

Thanks again!

Chris_M
1900 posts
19 Feb 2020 3:54PM
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What about Gary's paddle!!

colas
3752 posts
19 Feb 2020 5:50PM
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cantSUPenough said..
Colas and STC, I expect stick figure diagrams that include the position of the surfer's centre of gravity


Well, I think OkiWild have well covered the subject :-)

I would just add that "pumping the turns" is something you really have to feel. I think the best way to experience it is trying to pump a skateboard to go forward on the flats without lifting the front wheels, you will feel thinks ticking in place when you do it right.
Then you can try to get the same pumping feel at the end of waves by small quick turns (a bit like you learn to pump a foil).
It is similar to pumping on a swing: push on the bottom, let the board float to come back down.

When you have felt the turns work their magic (you cannot miss them), just try to add this move to all your bottom turns.

I also think of making the board go around me: I visualize a big ball in the water on my frontside, and leaning my belly on it, rotating the feet & board around the ball, a bit like that (but with the knees bent):

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
19 Feb 2020 11:25PM
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Thanks Colas - I think my skateboard days are behind me - but others can sure try!

I believe I have felt the pumping feeling - I just want to be more consistent. I want to visualize the motion so it becomes second nature.

SunnyBouy
429 posts
20 Feb 2020 2:09AM
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Good thread, watching with interest.

I once saw an early picture of me in my early days SUP Surfing....
I looked like I was about pull up a comfy chair and plonk right down on it I've been surfing for a while now, and when the wife comes to the beach she often comments "you have a particular way of standing and surfing"
Clearly I'm taking the positive out of that, sadly I really think she's taking the piss

Jacksboards
VIC, 158 posts
20 Feb 2020 1:45PM
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Cant Sup Enough I admire your consistent direction in SUP surfing

I think of a fast bottom turn being my slingshot too safety.

Reading or knowing what the wave is going to do in the section ahead is the key to timing your bottom turn.

A good bottom turn can slingshot you around the fastest breaking part of the wave all the way back up into the pocket going fast, if the wave is good enough you may find yourself in a barrel, or more than likely on a SUP unfortunately in front of the barrel.

A well executed bottom turn is your key to potentially getting a barrel or tube, no slingshot bottom turn = no tube.

Sup boards are difficult to handle in a tube with such a large underside surface area effectively turning your board into a semi out of control flying carpet inside the wave. Getting injured in this moment on a SUP is a reality here also.

The below clip is an ok example of a setting up a bottom turn into the pocket. This wave is a deep water fat reef break wave that can provide an ok pocket on the inside on the left on a good day.




On this wave I fade towards the inside on my way down the drop as I can see this wave is an inside grower, knowing that it will get bigger and better as it travels across the inside reef.
Seeing the potential opportunity ahead here, I try and time my bottom turn for a slingshot speedline towards the pocket and the fastest short section of this wave
The bottom turn gets me there yet I am in front of the pocket and adjust my line with a little zig zag turn and try and slow my board down at the same time, once again finding myself just in front of the space I was trying to be in


Jacksboards has exited the retail space and the inter webs, I am still selling boards, foils and wing surfers in Victoria through our SUP lesson and hire business Peninsula Stand Up Paddle on the foreshore at Sorrento Victoria.

Tardy
3378 posts
20 Feb 2020 11:20AM
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I Think the real power comes from the hips .if your poster is learning the wrong way ,you have poor control of your board ,

your body needs to work like a machine ,all in time and connected to each other .

bobajob
QLD, 1376 posts
20 Feb 2020 3:19PM
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Select to expand quote
Jacksboards said..


Cant Sup Enough I admire your consistent direction in SUP surfing

I think of a fast bottom turn being my slingshot too safety.

Reading or knowing what the wave is going to do in the section ahead is the key to timing your bottom turn.

A good bottom turn can slingshot you around the fastest breaking part of the wave all the way back up into the pocket going fast, if the wave is good enough you may find yourself in a barrel, or more than likely on a SUP unfortunately in front of the barrel.

A well executed bottom turn is your key to potentially getting a barrel or tube, no slingshot bottom turn = no tube.

Sup boards are difficult to handle in a tube with such a large underside surface area effectively turning your board into a semi out of control flying carpet inside the wave. Getting injured in this moment on a SUP is a reality here also.

The below clip is an ok example of a setting up a bottom turn into the pocket. This wave is a deep water fat reef break wave that can provide an ok pocket on the inside on the left on a good day.




On this wave I fade towards the inside on my way down the drop as I can see this wave is an inside grower, knowing that it will get bigger and better as it travels across the inside reef.
Seeing the potential opportunity ahead here, I try and time my bottom turn for a slingshot speedline towards the pocket and the fastest short section of this wave
The bottom turn gets me there yet I am in front of the pocket and adjust my line with a little zig zag turn and try and slow my board down at the same time, once again finding myself just in front of the space I was trying to be in


Jacksboards has exited the retail space and the inter webs, I am still selling boards, foils and wing surfers in Victoria through our SUP lesson and hire business Peninsula Stand Up Paddle on the foreshore at Sorrento Victoria.


And where did I see that back foot go when the moment you decided to execute that bottom turn? And that's not a large board either by the look of it. Pretty sure you got five wet toes not once but twice there!

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
21 Feb 2020 8:39AM
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Select to expand quote
Jacksboards said..


Cant Sup Enough I admire your consistent direction in SUP surfing

I think of a fast bottom turn being my slingshot too safety.

Reading or knowing what the wave is going to do in the section ahead is the key to timing your bottom turn.

A good bottom turn can slingshot you around the fastest breaking part of the wave all the way back up into the pocket going fast, if the wave is good enough you may find yourself in a barrel, or more than likely on a SUP unfortunately in front of the barrel.

A well executed bottom turn is your key to potentially getting a barrel or tube, no slingshot bottom turn = no tube.

Sup boards are difficult to handle in a tube with such a large underside surface area effectively turning your board into a semi out of control flying carpet inside the wave. Getting injured in this moment on a SUP is a reality here also.

The below clip is an ok example of a setting up a bottom turn into the pocket. This wave is a deep water fat reef break wave that can provide an ok pocket on the inside on the left on a good day.




On this wave I fade towards the inside on my way down the drop as I can see this wave is an inside grower, knowing that it will get bigger and better as it travels across the inside reef.
Seeing the potential opportunity ahead here, I try and time my bottom turn for a slingshot speedline towards the pocket and the fastest short section of this wave
The bottom turn gets me there yet I am in front of the pocket and adjust my line with a little zig zag turn and try and slow my board down at the same time, once again finding myself just in front of the space I was trying to be in


Jacksboards has exited the retail space and the inter webs, I am still selling boards, foils and wing surfers in Victoria through our SUP lesson and hire business Peninsula Stand Up Paddle on the foreshore at Sorrento Victoria.


Thanks Jack - I just want to improve my surfing. I want to look like a surfer on a SUP and not a kook - especially when it translates into better performance and more fun. And I figure others may have the same desire.

As you say, there are two issues; reading the wave so you make your moves at the right time/place, and body positioning so you do it well.

Now I can aspire to get barreled on that same wave - if I am reading the coastline correctly. It is my favorite wave.

supthecreek
1917 posts
21 Feb 2020 11:05AM
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cantSUPenough said..
Every now again when surfing I wonder if I look like a surfer or a guy doing a p@@

In theory, you drop down the wave and as you approach the bottom turn you bend your knees and spring back up to launch the board back up the wave whilst leaning into the turn. When you see a real surfer do it it is smooth, effortless, and they get a lot of extra speed. And they look like a surfer.

Some people bend their knees and they don't spring back up. Some people crouch and don't look as if they could spring back up. And some people look like they are laying an egg.

Sometimes I turn the board simply because I place my weight such that the board turns - but my weight is pretty much straight up and down - I am steering the board. Othertimes I properly lean forward and out, perhaps with a lot of weight on my paddle, and it feels real. But you better be very familiar with the board and have your feet in the right place or you will put too much weight out there or not enough...

I am an engineer. I need a written procedure for how to do this. Is my back straight up-down or leaning forward? Where should my bum be? What should the angles be between my shins, thighs and torso? Am I squatting, bending, coiling, crouching, or what?

Colas and STC, I expect stick figure diagrams that include the position of the surfer's centre of gravity

If you watch this video you can see the difference between the coaches and the learners. But I am having trouble pinpointing the exact process to make this work...
.be&__s=3gq5cxdunshd22v973tz


Lots of good information already, so I'll try to change it up a bit.

Surfing is sensual
The interaction between the board and wave is a graceful, flowing work of art.... and should be felt in your soul.

A great ride is like making love.... it's a very rhythmic motion, like waves on the ocean.
As a whip uncoils its power and "snaps" at the end.... thats how a turn is done;
A fluid uncoiling of a compressed body, releasing all that pent up power, into a carving turn.

Too many people are fearful when surfing.
Fearful of falling
Fearful of messing up a wave.

They have one goal:
To go from point "A" to point "B" without falling.

You see that in almost every student in the Blue Zone video.
They are ALL in the exact same position on the board that they were in, when they paddled into the wave.

They are ALL standing in the middle of the board and trying to turn by leaning toward the rail.... and paddling furiously for speed.
They all are simply trimming towards the end of the wave.
Not one of them moved a muscle or their feet....
Every one of them is more fit than me.

Good surfing is ACTIVE
You MUST move around on your board.
Turning is most effectively done from the BACK of the board.
Shortboarders pop up in that position..
SUPsters have to move backward from their "take off" position.... to a "turning" position

In this video, there is one turn that changed the way I surf.... the turn is a simple fade left, go right... it starts at :46 seconds
That turn felt SO good, that I studied it for months and have learned how to repeat it.
It was the most sensually flowing turn..... seemingly effortless and effective, with a subtle "snap" at the apex of the turn.

Pay attention to the "flow" of all my turns starting at 2:19 secs.... they are fun and rhythmic
Notice how often I move my feet.... and how that enables the turns.
This is not radical surfing by any means.... it is simply fun and effective.... the joy of surfing!



Smile when you are surfing.... laugh, take risks,
Good surfing happens when you relax and "feel" it.

Surfing is ALL mental.
If it depended on a supple body, filled with muscle and flexibility..... I would be knitting.
You are ALL capable of fluid surfing.... just get your mind out of the way and let it happen!

Some pics of coiling, then extending outwards, to turn up the face.... then release off the top

















OkiWild
31 posts
21 Feb 2020 11:18AM
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Sup boards are difficult to handle in a tube with such a large underside surface area effectively turning your board into a semi out of control flying carpet inside the wave. Getting injured in this moment on a SUP is a reality here also.



It's a completely different dynamic, for sure. Packing barrels like I used to on a short board, and just diving off the front when the game is up, has resulted in SUP to the shoulder, SUP to the face, etc. So I've taken to exiting off the outside of the board (frontside), which mostly ends up in hitting the water on your side/back, no penetration, and a trip over the falls. There's no "easy out," so it takes a lot more commitment, and better wave selection. This, in turn limits the number of opportunities, and the learning curve is looooong. Backside?? HA! I don't even know what to do with the paddle. I've spent hours and hours pouring over Youtube videos. Jess Leedy and company, all of the SUP heats in the Backdoor Shootout, Keahi, Mo, and on and on. At first, the surfer in me was always putting the paddle on the outside in one hand, and the inside hand on the wave. Feels comfortable enough, but you can't use the paddle, and landing on it with it behind you is quite painful... Then started holding it on the inside with both hands, but more often than not, it will get caught up in the wave, go up and over, unbalancing you and pushing you off of the board. Just recently I finally got over the hurdle, and started dragging it by just the grip with the forward hand down low, and being able to keep the left hand (goofy) free to drag in the wave face, etc. And on it goes

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
21 Feb 2020 11:11PM
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OkiWild - you have made me think twice about chasing barrels! I will try any way but expect more bruises.

STC - thanks for your comments.

I love surfing. I can't stop grinning. I move my feet a lot, especially on my bigger boards. I fade on my drops and love the bottom turn, and I do move up and down the wave - although, as Tardy will point out, I don't get vertical. Although sometimes I get a good spray going on my top turns.

But I am sure I am not doing it well. I am sure I should lean more. I sometimes feel like my stance is not quite right. After a wave I have this feeling like my weight and positioning were not quite right. Maybe I am sticking my bum out - as per my original post. Like Sunnybouys wife said to him, I think I sometimes have a "particular way of standing"...

I do like your turn at :46 seconds and the turn at 3:07 has more compression - nice!

Thanks again for taking the time to explain.

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
24 Feb 2020 10:22PM
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I had a couple of fantastic surfs over the weekend and I was able to concentrate on the bottom turn and think about how I was turning the board, where I was putting my weight, etc. Of course, I needed a video to see what difference it made to my posture (did I look like a surfer or a kook). But I did feel that my turns improved. Unfortunately, a few times I was thinking about it too much and totally stuffed it up. Somehow you have to figure out how to improve without thinking about it too much as you're doing it. But stuffing it is all part of the learning process and I could at least feel how the turn when even if I just bottom-turned and just went up and over the wave.

hilly
WA, 5179 posts
24 Feb 2020 9:03PM
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You have to move your feet to rail the board. Oldies but goodies





OkiWild
31 posts
25 Feb 2020 11:18AM
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hilly said..
You have to move your feet to rail the board. Oldies but goodies








Wow hilly, those are some great clips. That moment at 36" in the first video is exactly the problem I have with the paddle when it gets tight. So I automatically went to holding in the outside hand, but if "feels" ugly...LOL Thanks for posting those.

Suplife
VIC, 3 posts
25 Feb 2020 3:51PM
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Head down, Paddle In tight, full steam ahead










cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
25 Feb 2020 4:54PM
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hilly said..
You have to move your feet to rail the board. Oldies but goodies







Great vids! And they are perfect examples of what I created this thread.

For me there are a couple of issues.

First, where you have to place your feet to get the board to turn. The amount you have to move your feet depends on the board. Although I am always trying to improve, that is not my personal issue - I can generally get the board to turn and I move my feet constantly (especially on the bigger boards).

Second, is how you lean and crouch to compress on the bottom turn and then spring back out. In your first vid (0:15, 1:58, and 2:25) and in your second vid (0.03, 0:11, and 0:20 - and other places) you bottom turn and look like a surfer. Your bum isn't sticking out, you aren't bent and looking weird, and you are bending your knees - like in Suplife's photos.

That was really what I was getting at - how to get that in my head so I am crouching properly and getting maximum force out of the turn.

Thanks for your posts.

lukemin
WA, 57 posts
25 Feb 2020 5:01PM
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No advise from me cantsupenough, but I like watching Mo Freitas bottom turning,and then pretending.
seriously it did help me as I try to go a bit further out front and then lay it down

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
26 Feb 2020 1:40PM
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lukemin said..



No advise from me cantsupenough, but I like watching Mo Freitas bottom turning,and then pretending.
seriously it did help me as I try to go a bit further out front and then lay it down


That's exactly what I do --- in my imagination!

Wow, that's committment to the turn!

Gboots
NSW, 834 posts
26 Feb 2020 7:52PM
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When leaning on the wave for bottom turn I feel as if I put too much paddle in wave to help me turn. I feel at times that this is slowing down my momentum . Do you guys just touch wave face or aggressively place paddle face into wave ?

hilly
WA, 5179 posts
26 Feb 2020 6:23PM
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Gboots said..
When leaning on the wave for bottom turn I feel as if I put too much paddle in wave to help me turn. I feel at times that this is slowing down my momentum . Do you guys just touch wave face or aggressively place paddle face into wave ?


Depends on the situation. Drawn out fast bottom turn - light touch. Fast change of direction - dig it in. And everything in between. Speed is the key.

colas
3752 posts
26 Feb 2020 6:24PM
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Actually, in bottom turns, I do not use "directly" the paddle to turn.

The paddle allow me to lean my body fully into the turn, knowing that my paddle is there to recover my balance if went too much overboard. In prone surfing, I would have not been able to use my body as efficiently, as I should have kept some margin of error. It is thus a kind of indirect help.

In top turns however, the paddle can add direct leverage to help turning.

Skeeee
VIC, 255 posts
27 Feb 2020 10:04PM
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G-Day CSE, mate my two cents worth is that the basic aspects / techniques of surfing generally apply across the spectrum and pertain to all elements / types of surfing, be it short boarding or SUP surfing. For me utilising basic short boarding techniques etc and transposing / adapting them to my SUP surfing has really helped me to improve. Also I very much agree with the comments made by others above - 'Understanding compression and decompression is really the key to developing good surfing technique.'

Might I suggest that you have a look at the clips below as they may be of benefit to you in your own bottom turn journey.




Bottom Turn (regular foot). From 110% Surfing Techniques Volume 2 DVD.



Bottom Turn Drive - From 110% Surfing Techniques Volume 4


For illustration please see the three pics below for a basic bottom turn - if I was under 60 I would be more compressed however I personally find that while my mind says 'compress' my body tends to say 'Frog U'.

However all that aside I have learnt that you have to commit to and really lean / drive into the turn (from the vid above - 'try to touch the water with your trailing hand etc'), back foot compression, eyes where you want to go. Rear foot at the tail and really driving the inside rail to maintain speed during the rotation. Speed is your friend!



Have now decided on what type of top turn I want to do / the wave will let me do!



Starting to decompress a bit to go up the face etc. This is where I will eventually begin to 'raise' my arms to get 'lift' up the face. If you want to go more vertical then it is just a matter of keep rotating the trailing shoulder and keep back foot pressure - the further round the shoulder goes the steeper you will climb. I personally find however that vertical turns are quite hard on a SUP due to having the paddle and therefore not being able to rotate your arms and shoulders to get the board to snap turn etc. But maybe that is just me!




Again as has been discussed by others above not all bottom turns are the same eg the next two pics. In this case I drop in but looking down the line I realized that the wave was running fast so chose to do a 'mid-face' bottom turn to try and make the section. Less compression here but more rear leg pressure.



Once happy reduce pressure on back foot get back above the trim line to maintain drive and speed etc and run the section until you set up for the next bottom turn.



So my friend have a look at the 'how to' clips above and I wish you all the best.



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