Marine Safety Victoria - SUP & PFDs

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SUPAustralia
SUPAustralia
WA
5 posts
WA, 5 posts
29 Jan 2011 6:55am
In April 2010, an incident in Port Philip Bay, Melbourne Victoria Australia resulted in a recreational SUP paddler clinging to a shipping beacon and having to be rescued. The issue was referred to Marine Safety Victoria.

News Article reference: www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/paddleboarder-stranded-in-bay-sparks-safety-debate-20100424-tkm8.html

There have been discussions all over the world as to whether SUP boards are vessels and as a result, would fall into the same category as canoes, kayaks, etc, including wearing PFDS, carrying flairs, etc and therefore subject to "waterways" regulation.

Marine Safety Victoria is not interested in putting any legislation in place. They would like to promote industry safety guidelines and possibly publish them on their website and in a brochure with brochure distribution to places that sell SUP boards in Victoria.

A SUP Victorian focus group has been formed, to discuss some guidelines.

Marine Safety Victoria has identified the minimum safety equipment requirements for human powered vessels, including canoes, kayaks, rafts and rowing boats, categorised by operating environment, as follows:

CURRENT VIC MARINE SAFETY - OPERATING ENVIRONMENTs

1. Coastal Offshore (> 2 nautical miles from coast)
Required: legrope, PFD Typed 1,2, or 3 Safety Equipment Torch, Bailer, Bilge Pump, Oars, Orange Smoke signals, Red Distress Flares, Compass, EPIRB

2. Coastal Inshore ( 2 nautical miles from coast)
Required: legrope, PFD Typed 1,2, or 3 Safety Equipment Torch, Orange Smoke signals, Red Distress Flares, Compass, EPIRB

2. Coastal Inshore (400 metres to 400 metres from shore)
Required: legrope, PFD Typed 1,2, or 3

5. Inland (rivers, lakes and dams)
Required: legrope

The proposed SUP Industry guidelines are not legislation however there could constitute an "unwritten" requirement to abide by them.

SUP Australia is collating feedback from the SUP community on the above operating category classifications and the PFD/equipment requirements.
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
29 Jan 2011 10:03am
This post has jumped the gun a bit. The paper you are referring to was a starting point and following advice, significant changes were intended before this paper was made public. The Victorian focus group has only just formed and has not even held a meeting yet. This paper was referred to ASI in order to gauge their position. It was certainly not intended for it to be posted on the forum in its current form.
SUPAustralia
SUPAustralia
WA
5 posts
WA, 5 posts
29 Jan 2011 7:03am

What are the definitions of the Victoria Marine Safety "Operating Environment" Categories?

>Coastal Offshore Waters refer to all waters further than 2nm from the coast, while Coastal Inshore Waters refer to all coastal waters within 2nm along the Victorian coastline.

>Enclosed Waters refer to bays, inlets, estuaries and waterways that open into the coastal inshore waters.

>Inland waters refer to all other waterways further inland than the enclosed waters, which includes most rivers and streams.

The waters of Port Phillip Bay inside a line between Point Lonsdale and Point Nepean is classified as Enclosed Waters.

Victorian Recreational Boating Safety Handbook (from page 8) has maps showing all coastal, enclosed and inland waterways of Victoria.

See: transportsafety.vic.gov.au/maritime-safety/publications-and-forms?OpenDocument

CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
29 Jan 2011 9:07am
I would have thought 'jumped the gun' in this case would have been referring to as a self appointed regulatory body of the sport making claims and pointing fingers before they have even announced their existence or introduced themselves to their potential clients (members).

Edit: I say this as when many of the regular posters and members of SUP Clubs on this very forum are not even aware of them I take this as a good indication of the education of the association.

There is a news article however on this site at: (Not sure when posted) www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Stand%20Up%20Paddle/New-SUP-National-Sporting-Association-for-Australia_4258354.aspx
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
29 Jan 2011 10:10am
CMC said...

I would have thought 'jumped the gun' in this case would have been referring to as a self appointed regulatory body of the sport making claims and pointing fingers before they have even announced their existence or introduced themselves to their potential clients (members).



I suggest 'jumped the gun' is a friendly euphemism for "betrayal of trust". This paper should NOT have been published and SUP Australia is turning a Victorian issue into a national issue.
Swanie
Swanie
QLD
1372 posts
QLD, 1372 posts
29 Jan 2011 9:42am
[SUP Australia is turning a Victorian issue into a national issue.





62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
29 Jan 2011 7:45am
CMC said...

I would have thought 'jumped the gun' in this case would have been referring to as a self appointed regulatory body of the sport making claims and pointing fingers before they have even announced their existence or introduced themselves to their potential clients (members).

Edit: I say this as when many of the regular posters and members of SUP Clubs on this very forum are not even aware of them I take this as a good indication of the education of the association.

There is a news article however on this site at: (Not sure when posted) www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Stand%20Up%20Paddle/New-SUP-National-Sporting-Association-for-Australia_4258354.aspx


Well said CMC
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
29 Jan 2011 11:12am
I just want to reiterate that the opening post of this thread does not accurately reflect the stage of discussions we are at within the Victorian focus group, which contains members of 2 SUP clubs and 4 SUP schools. We are not intending to reference existing legislation made for other forms of water craft. We intend to recommend unique guidelines for the unique surf craft and surf boards that we use. The OP is irrelevant and redundant, likewise comments from a UK magazine publisher who seems to have opened an atlas and taken a cursory glance at a map of Australia before passing judgement on paddling in Victorian waterways.
JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
29 Jan 2011 11:17am
Incredible arrogance and zero credibility, the usual qualifications for self appointed experts.

Avatar says location is WA, body of text says "here in UK". Sweeping statements that are emotive, inflammatory and stated as fact when they are in fact speculation or incorrect.

This topic provides no benefit whatsoever to the sensible outcome that many people are working hard to achieve for the benefit of us all us paddlers in Australia.


DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
29 Jan 2011 11:30am
JonathanC said...

Incredible arrogance and zero credibility, the usual qualifications for self appointed experts.

Avatar says location is WA, body of text says "here in UK". Sweeping statements that are emotive, inflammatory and stated as fact when they are in fact speculation or incorrect.

This topic provides no benefit whatsoever to the sensible outcome that many people are working hard to achieve for the benefit of us all us paddlers in Australia.





Well said JC.

DJ

hilly
hilly
WA
8132 posts
WA, 8132 posts
29 Jan 2011 8:34am
All this safety stuff for such a small group I find a bit funny. I am not saying it is not important good on those that are working on it. Coming from a much larger group (windsurfers and kiters) who regularly travel at great speed a long way out to sea and there have been heaps of fatalities (kiters) and safety is not a big issue. I would have thought those groups would be higher on the authorities hit list than us.
Saying that I have only been hassled by fisheries about safety on a sup.
Hard to get a kiter to stop I suppose.
Careful we do not beat up a none issue as I think current offshore boating regs maybe applied or we could be just a big surfboard. I hate doing dw's in a pfd. I doubt anyone would enforce it over here as you do not see fisheries in over 20 knots.
I regularly paddle over 400m out for a surf certainly do not want to wear pfd then either.
JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
29 Jan 2011 12:10pm
Totally agree Hilly, unfortunately the reality is that wheels are in motion with the 'man' and we have to make sure we end up with something we can all live with. Can't help thinking of some windsurf mast breaking adventures at Gnaraloo and outer reef near Exmouth and having a little chuckle about the risks of paddling on a still river without a leg rope...
hilly
hilly
WA
8132 posts
WA, 8132 posts
29 Jan 2011 9:15am
JonathanC said...

Totally agree Hilly, unfortunately the reality is that wheels are in motion with the 'man' and we have to make sure we end up with something we can all live with. Can't help thinking of some windsurf mast breaking adventures at Gnaraloo and outer reef near Exmouth and having a little chuckle about the risks of paddling on a still river without a leg rope...


Thinking the same have swum windsurf and kite gear in
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
29 Jan 2011 3:48pm
Who decided that this had to be a representative and democratically constituted body. Personally I would prefer a Royal family of SUP. A hereditary peerage passed on down the generations of SUP that would rule over all sports where a human stands on a board with a paddle. An aquatic Kim Jong IL. I propose this Grand Wizard be able to control and discipline all matters and persons relating to Stand Ups. If the "dear leader" decrees that we all should wear Crocs- then Crocs we shall wear. If he(or she)decrees that no SUP be smaller than 28 feet then, make it so . I propose the first family be Mr. and Mrs. OG sup and Princess Surfeechick.
angie pangi
angie pangi
QLD
1782 posts
QLD, 1782 posts
29 Jan 2011 3:04pm
I have to laugh at Supaustralia bringing all this up.

We live in the most relaxed country in the world when it comes to sueing people etc.. but yet if your 2 miles off shore on a SUP you have to carry oars LOLOLOLOL. Seriously does that sound right to anyone out there.

I have crossed the Molokai channel which is 52km of wild ocean but yet we have no saftey gear on us at all & it's America. Sure we have a support boat near by but not always close to you.

I think this issue is going way to far!!

Grow up and leave the issue alone.

Put it this way,
"Right now Jacko & Jamie M are paddling from Kingscliff to Currumbin in 30knots and damn big swell. So your trying to tell these guys they would have to wear all that safety equip and maybe take oars LOL"

They would be lucky to have even taken leggies, ooopppsss.

These guys can handle the conditions so why punish them.

I didn't go as i feel it's bit over my limit today.

It's all about knowing your limits!!! Don't go out if you can't handle the conditions.

My 2 cents

XX angie
log man
log man
VIC
8289 posts
VIC, 8289 posts
29 Jan 2011 4:09pm
No Offense Phill, Just Being a smartarse.
OG SUP
OG SUP
VIC
3516 posts
VIC, 3516 posts
29 Jan 2011 4:27pm
Just gave you a green thumb mate!

Phill
Tang
Tang
VIC
580 posts
VIC, 580 posts
29 Jan 2011 4:29pm
Hi SUP Australia - I note the content of this thread and have some experience in the matters you raise. I think a few questions are in order:

1) I can't find anything about your organisation on the web and am very interested in your governance structure (particularly your Board and other representatives), your organisational charter, objectives, staff etc. My interest comes from your implicit intention to be seen as the peak body for all things SUP in Australia, and I, as a keen SUP-er, am not aware of your existence nor reasons for being.

2) You state that SUP Australia is collating feedback from the community. Can you please advise:
- what the formal process is that you are consulting on, as there is no mention if this on the MSV website that I am aware of and I am not aware of any other statutory process underway to investigate the issues you raise
- by whom have you been asked to consult and on whose behalf?
- on what basis have you been selected to conduct the consultation?

The above would be a good start. In the event that the bona-fides of this are established, I can foresee a great many more questions.

Thanks in advance.
AA
AA
NSW
2167 posts
AA AA
NSW, 2167 posts
29 Jan 2011 4:34pm
The word 'illusion' springs to mind again! [}:)]
brownie49
brownie49
NSW
100 posts
NSW, 100 posts
29 Jan 2011 5:05pm
Two issues as I see it:

1 - These people are remaining silent and the Nations largest collective group of SUP riders (Seabreeze members - I think this would be right???) is asking questions - SUP Australia - please answer them

2 - They seem to be trying to make a lot of noise and get recognised by some one in authority and then be classed the representative body as their name suggests

Albeit a self appointed one and it appears to have been done very quietly to stop questions just like these arising, it is like a commando mission to take over a country, or sport in this matter

This is going to very interesting in the next couple of days, I would love to hear what Surfing Australia has to say...Or maybe they are just not interested in SUP???

Anyone know?





planesailing
planesailing
WA
380 posts
WA, 380 posts
29 Jan 2011 2:17pm
Dear SUP Australia,
Port Phillip is not a BAY.
"an indentation of a shoreline larger than a cove but smaller than a gulf"
"A body of water partially enclosed by land but with a wide mouth, affording access to the sea"
Its not on Charts as a BAY. It has a series of BAYS within the body of water. But it is not a BAY.

RANT now finished I need a lie down...........
surfanimal
surfanimal
NSW
1662 posts
NSW, 1662 posts
29 Jan 2011 5:17pm
Well said Angie. Totally agree with your sentiments.

This whole SUP Aust business is a load of crap IMO.

Isn't the great 'Casso' part of this controlling group SUP Aust ? Would like to see him settle the issue down with constructive comment.

If I want to push my limits, paddle for recreation, or whatever Stand Up style I choose, I'm sorry but no governing body will be telling me how, what, when or why.

What a load of crap......if I do get into trouble like DJ did and someone wishes to rescue me, I'll pay the fee's as required as I would if I required an Ambulance or rescue in a car accident, surfing incident, motoX accident etc etc.......and if I don't get rescued, well, that's my problem for being stupid.

(NB I paid NSW Ambulance Service $3K and Westpac Rescue $2K for a land sea search and rescue off Voodoo Reef Cronulla / Kurnell in 1997 and was happy to do so as they saved my life).

This is Australia, it's a recreational, fun activity so rules and regulations can get ****ed as far as I'm concerned. They'll tell us we'll need licenses and have to get a Waterways license next.
Bnaccas
Bnaccas
VIC
1722 posts
VIC, 1722 posts
29 Jan 2011 5:19pm
OG SUP said...

Copied from my other thread!

SUPWorld

QLD
Australia

29 Posts

Posted 14 minutes ago Report Show Profile Message to SUPWorld Reply with Quote
We here at SUPWORLD Magazine want to clear up the misconception that SUPWORLD Magazine is one of the site sponsor's - it is not.




WOW!
surfanimal
surfanimal
NSW
1662 posts
NSW, 1662 posts
29 Jan 2011 5:26pm
Hey Brownie,

I joined the Cronulla Sutherland SUP Club the other week and it includes SUP Aust membership and not Surfing Australia.

I'd say Surfing Australia have wiped their hands of SUP and not included us in their charter so SUP Aust have taken on that responsibility in their 'governing role'.

I must sway when I signed on I was surprised and even more so that their is committee of this nature chosen without public input (to my knowledge) or the wider community involved in it's formation and election of reps.

So, my Club and I are governed by this bunch who have appeared and taken control in NSW at least.
dtm
dtm
NSW
1610 posts
dtm dtm
NSW, 1610 posts
29 Jan 2011 7:13pm
this sounds like a hole lot of crap i truely hope this stays in vic and good luck to you ,but theres no way im carrying any of that stuff when down winding, surfing or whatever paddling like to see them fine us hey my name is Joe Upya.
Gee with the amount of gear you would need to do a down winder if you fell in would likely drown as to heavy!
Casso
Casso
NSW
3785 posts
NSW, 3785 posts
30 Jan 2011 2:35pm
surfanimals said...


Isn't the great 'Casso' part of this controlling group SUP Aust ? Would like to see him settle the issue down with constructive comment.

Sorry, I've got nothing to comment on behalf of SUP Australia. I'm not an official part of this group and I've had no involvement in any of this safety requirements stuff.

But while on the subject, I don't own a "life jacket", I do own a PFD though - it's 12'6" long and permanently attached to me by a reliable legrope. That will do me for safety equipment. I wasn't allowed to enter the last Fenn Cup race the other week because my "PFD" wasn't class 1 or whatever - I boycotted the event.
Casso
Casso
NSW
3785 posts
NSW, 3785 posts
30 Jan 2011 2:39pm
dtm said...

this sounds like a hole lot of crap i truely hope this stays in vic and good luck to you ,but theres no way im carrying any of that stuff when down winding, surfing or whatever paddling like to see them fine us hey my name is Joe Upya.

Well said.

What a coincidence, my name is also Joe Upya - but I don't have my photo id on me out here in the ocean.
beerssup
beerssup
NSW
513 posts
NSW, 513 posts
30 Jan 2011 7:13pm
Casso said...

dtm said...

this sounds like a hole lot of crap i truely hope this stays in vic and good luck to you ,but theres no way im carrying any of that stuff when down winding, surfing or whatever paddling like to see them fine us hey my name is Joe Upya.

Well said.

What a coincidence, my name is also Joe Upya - but I don't have my photo id on me out here in the ocean.


I am with you boys just hope it doesnt go down this sad old way

dtm
dtm
NSW
1610 posts
dtm dtm
NSW, 1610 posts
30 Jan 2011 11:52pm
beerssup said...

Casso said...

dtm said...

this sounds like a hole lot of crap i truely hope this stays in vic and good luck to you ,but theres no way im carrying any of that stuff when down winding, surfing or whatever paddling like to see them fine us hey my name is Joe Upya.

Well said.

What a coincidence, my name is also Joe Upya - but I don't have my photo id on me out here in the ocean.


I am with you boys just hope it doesnt go down this sad old way




wow old boards with those permits sell for heaps$$$$$$$$$$$

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