Me Waterman, You Jane

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
StKilda SUPB
StKilda SUPB
VIC
195 posts
VIC, 195 posts
7 Jul 2009 3:13pm
Article from www.swellnet.com.au

Stuart Nettle
July 6, 2009

I'm still not convinced this isn't an elaborate joke.

If it is, the person who conceived it has done remarkably well. If it isn't....then Lord help us.

Last week I got sent an email from a group calling themselves the Waterman's League. The email explained that the Watermans League were starting up a competition circuit called the Stand Up World Tour.

According to the Watermans League, the Tour is being created "to embrace the emergence and exponential growth in the sport of Stand Up Paddling". Then, to give the sport some credibility, they mention that celebrities such Tom Hanks, Matthew McConaughey and Pierce Brosnan are doing it!

So you can see why I thought all this was a joke. But anyway, I thought 'Stand Up's have had a good run', it's time for a rant.

Before I go on though, let me state my position vis-a-vis Stand Up Paddleboarders (SUP's). That being: I've got no problem with them in the surf. I even use their presence to better myself. Yep, when I see one in the surf I recall the Buddha's lesson about thanking your enemy because from them you can learn tolerance. So I tolerate SUP's as I slowly ascend toward Nirvana.

And, fortunately for me, my ascension is being sped up with the rapid proliferation of the bastards.

So back to the..ahem...Waterman's League.

When it comes to SUP's, it's one thing to stand astride a tanker for a bit of a lark on a small day. It's quite another to be competing on one. And another thing altogether when the competiton is at Teahupoo, which is the first stop-off for the SUP world tour.

From what I can gather, the main difference between a SUP and a surfboard is that you paddle standing up. Once the wave is caught the game is the same, except you are encumbered with a board that possesses the turning ability of the QE2 and a paddle that turns to shrapnel come wipeout time.

If I'm a bit perplexed by competition SUPping I'll admit that I've never understood the sport of 'walking' either. Walkers are basically trying to get from A to B in the quickest time, but with limitations on how they do it. I've heard competition walking described as 'trying to whisper the loudest' and I reckon competition SUP'ing is the marine equivalent.

And what's with the name? Waterman's League? Lord help! I thought the 'waterman' creed was to ride the craft that was best suited to the conditions? Teahupoo and SUP's don't exactly go together like peaches and cream so who then came up with that idea?

I'll bet it was Laird. If so, it's got nought to do with matching wavecraft to wave, but more to do with providing a podium for him to prove his prowess. I know I'm dissing him, but so what? If push comes to shove I reckon I could beat Laird by at least 100 metres.

What I really want to see is Laird, or any of the other 'watermen' out there, take up another sport with an authentic historical lineage -- namely Sit Down Paddleboarding. Although you and I know it as goat-boating. And I don't want them to do it in a funny or ironic way either. I want to see them take on Sit Down Paddleboarding with all the earnestness and rippling machismo that they show in this Waterman's League caper. Maybe even include it in the Waterman's Agenda of Accepted Craft (a list that I like to think is hand-carved in granite).

So step on up all you 'watermen' and show us how manly you are: ride a goat-boat at Chopes.

[email protected]


goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
7 Jul 2009 3:33pm
Ha ha, the goatboat reference is a weird one.

From personal experience I'd prefer to ride a SUP than a goat at chopes - or any gnarly wave for that matter.

I reckon he has got a bit of a point regarding the matching of craft to the wave type. Not an ideal SUP wave - particularly for displaying their prowess. Makaha would be good I'd imagine, but chopes? Will be some carnage I reckon.
Tux
Tux
VIC
3829 posts
Tux Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
7 Jul 2009 3:54pm


I reckon he has got a bit of a point regarding the matching of craft to the wave type. Not an ideal SUP wave - particularly for displaying their prowess. Makaha would be good I'd imagine, but chopes? Will be some carnage I reckon.



In full agreement there...I would rather see them at Dungeons or Jaws or some other big deep water break that somewhere like chopes...also stikes me as bit wanky calling it the Waterman League....but that might just be me.
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
7 Jul 2009 5:29pm
In response to the challenge, or question, or whatever it is ... no. I don't want to. I'm busy having fun. Stop bothering me or I'll tell your mother.
Diver
Diver
WA
554 posts
WA, 554 posts
7 Jul 2009 3:41pm
The Fun Police are back...

rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
7 Jul 2009 6:00pm
Now thats what i'm talking aboutway,way to busy
Gorgo said...

In response to the challenge, or question, or whatever it is ... no. I don't want to. I'm busy having fun. Stop bothering me or I'll tell your mother.


tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
7 Jul 2009 6:32pm
bring it on

cant wait to watch the carnage at chopes with all the big name sup crew charging it in a comp with no one else out

that would be sick ...too watch that is...lol...

i was talking to allan atkins in the surf yesterday morning at minnie water and he mentioned the watermans league and said that australia is high on the list to be included in the tour

just waiting for a major sponsor to take up the challenge and find a spot to hold it at

it wont be long

later dogman

Scotty Mac
Scotty Mac
SA
2060 posts
SA, 2060 posts
7 Jul 2009 9:15pm
They say;) You learn something every day. I like the story because it made is clear that Stuart Nettle is a complete f_ckwit and that's cool cos if I meet him one day, I won't need to guess if he is a total tool or not, I will already know........... So I am claiming I learnt something today.
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
7 Jul 2009 10:52pm
tha dogman said...

bring it on

cant wait to watch the carnage at chopes with all the big name sup crew charging it in a comp with no one else out

that would be sick ...too watch that is...lol...


Fully agree there Dogman, the little bit I have seen on youtube was fullon enough, imagine 20 or 30 SUPs all vying for a wave at 8 foot chopes in the pre contest free surf[}:)]
tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
8 Jul 2009 9:13am
yer thats the sh@t goatman

all pushing each other deeper than each other

and getting nuked on the reef and or pitted deeper than ever

watching the highlight reel of an event like that and others will be a wake up call to the crew like stuart nettle and others that think this standup caper is all about aircraft carriers and straight lining all the way to the beach straight through a crowded lineup

bring it on

later dogman
Reflex Films
Reflex Films
WA
1463 posts
WA, 1463 posts
8 Jul 2009 11:54am
i love sup as much as any one..but i have to agree with many of the points made in the article.

the macho wank of the waterman's league is way over the top

for starters its a VERY pretentious name - and it really feeds into the "wanna be waterman" perception that many surfers have of us SUPPers. -i cant really blame them as there are often beginners out there taking out packs of surfers on wipeout- as a surfer i am SUPER wary when i see someone paddle out on a SUP - until i can determine their skill level and surf break intelligence.

there is no stopping it as the popularity surge of SUP continues. As it should - cause its awesome.

Alot of the vids coming out have this "you have to be a life long surfer to do this" attitude. It feels quite elitist - most of the real stoke i have seen in this sport comes from the first timers using sup as a gateway to experience the surfing culture that i have known for 20 years..

so there are alot of contradictions happening as SUP goes through its growing pains

I feel - and this is only my personal opinion - that chopes - and waves like it -really are wasted on a SUP -

I have ridden alot up at Gnaraloo - and when it gets serious (med to low tide - 6ft plus) - the last board i want to be on is my SUP- when its fun (6ft and smaller - bias towards med to high tides) the SUP is an incredibly , stupidly fun board to be on.

so as you can see - at chopes and other consequential spots the guys arent really getting deep in the barrell - and who would want to with all that board - it WILL be lethal when it knocks you in the head, ribs, thigh- as you get caught trying to get really deep - and thats always in the back of your mind - hence all the shots of guys just getting covered up at the doorway of the barrel (respect) - but not really deep back in the foam ball

which means that Sup is suited to more open faced performance waves where reos, riding drive and flow and threos can be dynamically thrown down. I just feel bad for all the hungry traveling ,fit and talented lie down surfers that miss out cause SUP has booked out the break for a contest. At the right break - pavillions , Medewi, Avalon (WA) , Dutchies (with swell) , unheaving beachies and reefs etc etc - A SUP contest / party with good riders would be awesome.

Keep in mind its not that different from Longboard riding - a good mal rider will pick up waves as early as me - and get nearly as many - they just miss out on the higher perspective and paddle leverage - but its close. We arent so different

AS regular surfer and supper i am constantly dealing with alot of flak from the surfing crowd (yes i do surf with them when the conditions are right - marginal for shortboards -or with deep well defined gutters) - this culture of macho waterman publicity just makes things much worse as i am instantly assumed to be a wanker and cop abuse.

- even if i do the right thing (dont hog waves , dont bail in front of surfers behind, queue up for waves , give some away ,call sets if appropriate, paddle AROUND the break - not through it, dont go out on the heaving shifting days when its packed with shortboard surfers (thats what your 6'4 is there for) .




StuNet
StuNet
3 posts
3 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:21am
^^^^Goatman, the goatboat reference might make more sense if you see the photo accompanying my story: http://www.swellnet.com.au/surfpolitik.php?surfpolitik=Me_Waterman_You_Jane_060709.php

(sorry, don't know how to post pics in here)

As for the story itself: I'm glad to see some people 'got' it. SUPping looks like a hoot in the right waves. Still can't get my head around it at Chopes though.

Cheers,

Stu

PS: Love and kisses to you Scotty Mac!
Lobes
Lobes
885 posts
885 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:27am
StuNet said...

^^^^Goatman, the goatboat reference might make more sense if you see the photo accompanying my story: http://www.swellnet.com.au/surfpolitik.php?surfpolitik=Me_Waterman_You_Jane_060709.php

(sorry, don't know how to post pics in here)




I reckon you could take him Goatman
Tux
Tux
VIC
3829 posts
Tux Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
9 Jul 2009 12:33pm
Thats goatboard not a goatboat...geez
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
9 Jul 2009 11:03am
Reflex Films said...

... call sets ...
No offence, but this is one thing I hate. Awareness and the ability to read the ocean is what differentiates people in the surf. If someone lets everyone know that there's a wave coming, suddenly everyone's paddling for it and fighting for position. If most people don't know, you can position yourself to your advantage. You'll usually see the better surfers have a higher awareness and if someone's calling waves it removes their advantage, the advantage they've spent a long time honing.

I also find it condescending. I know when waves are coming, don't need to be told.

The only exceptions are if it's a very relaxed session and you're calling for a mate, or if it's very heavy conditions and you're warning everyone they're about to be cleaned up.
Scotty Mac
Scotty Mac
SA
2060 posts
SA, 2060 posts
9 Jul 2009 12:53pm
Stu,
Feelings mutual.
If anyone is going to write stuff that assumes all people who do a certain sport act and are motivated in one certain way is almost like racism.
In my book I say "stuff you"!
Regards,
Scott
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
9 Jul 2009 1:42pm
Hey Stu, the article was basically a patronising wank designed to appeal the the elitest 'wank fest' that typifies a lot of the shortboard surfing world.

One of the refreshing things about SUP is that because it emcompasses such a broad range of people and activities (flat water, racing surfing, whitewater, etc) it is largely devoid of the 'wank' factor.

Let hope it stays that way - Watermans League or not.
Lobes
Lobes
885 posts
885 posts
9 Jul 2009 12:10pm
Stunet said..
If I'm a bit perplexed by competition SUPping I'll admit that I've never understood the sport of 'walking' either. Walkers are basically trying to get from A to B in the quickest time, but with limitations on how they do it. I've heard competition walking described as 'trying to whisper the loudest' and I reckon competition SUP'ing is the marine equivalent.


Not even close. You dont know what you're talking about.

Its more like snowboarding is to skiing. ie a new sport comes along. Its easy and accessible and the participants seem to be having way too much fun so establishment wankers try desperately to belittle it and even talk about banning it in some areas. Stus article is one of the death throes of the poisonous short board mentality as it clings onto the relevance it used to have. Great article, for about 1998....
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
9 Jul 2009 3:08pm
Actually StuNet's example is correct in reverse.

SUP-ing is a matter of surfing on the best equipment for the conditions. Any SUP surfer with a little competence knows what kind of SUP works in what conditions and accepts that. Sometimes the best equipment is a prone short board or a boogie board.

Pure short boarding tries to force everybody to ride the one kind of board no matter what the conditions and the level of skill.

High level competitions in general and SUP at Teahpoo are another matter altogether. Comps and the freesurf movement are all about photo opportunities. They are artificial events to entertain the masses and sell product, mostly boardshorts and T-shirts. They have nothing to do with the surfing that real people do.

The Watermen marketing thing is purely a logo to attract attention. If you don't like it talk to the marketing execs who think this stuff up. While you're at it, ask them about the Hawaiian beach boy thing and all the fat brown guys with funny names. I'm a middle aged white male that likes to get out and have fun. Perhaps we should use that as a name for a competition series: Middle Aged White Guys On Boards (MAWGOB!!!) (My kiteboarding mates and I have a better one. Old Guys Rule Everything OGRE)

(While it crosses my mind, 50-something males are still fit enough to have fun but we're also approaching the age where prostate cancer starts to become a potential threat. So if you're old you better get out and have all the fun you can before your arsehole tries to kill you.)
Reflex Films
Reflex Films
WA
1463 posts
WA, 1463 posts
9 Jul 2009 1:53pm

At Legion:


"No offence, but this is one thing I hate. Awareness and the ability to read the ocean is what differentiates people in the surf. If someone lets everyone know that there's a wave coming, suddenly everyone's paddling for it and fighting for position. If most people don't know, you can position yourself to your advantage. You'll usually see the better surfers have a higher awareness and if someone's calling waves it removes their advantage, the advantage they've spent a long time honing.

I also find it condescending. I know when waves are coming, don't need to be told.

The only exceptions are if it's a very relaxed session and you're calling for a mate, or if it's very heavy conditions and you're warning everyone they're about to be cleaned up."




I totally agree with you on this point - thats why i said - "where appropriate"



Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
9 Jul 2009 4:13pm
I have had prone surfers ask me if I could see anything coming. It's kind of obvious that I can see stuff better with a point of view almost 2 metres higher than them.

I don't as a rule call sets because I feel like a dick if the swell doesn't jack up. It's better for me to signal sets by paddling into position. The guys inside can see that and make up their own mind.

The whole thing of better surfers having an advantage is one of the problems of surfing in crowded spots. In prone surfing jockeying for position and snaking is a common practice. A wave hog is a wave hog whether they take all the waves because they have a bigger board or more skill. It works better if everybody just lines up and takes their turn in line. It's easy enough for multiple guys to take off together and the guys in the wrong place pull out if the priority surfer doesn't get the wave.
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
9 Jul 2009 3:28pm
Gorgo said...

I have had prone surfers ask me if I could see anything coming.
Don't tell them. Make them learn to read the ocean themselves. If anything is coming within a (e.g.) 30m^2 area of me, I'm in position otherwise I'm not. You don't need everyone knowing what's happening. Otherwise you might as well grab a megaphone, swap your broom for a crook and herd the sheep into the same positions one after another.

"Next one's breaking 15m out and 12m left, everyone paddle."
"The one after's a bit smaller and lining up squarer, so after the first one all paddle in and to the right."
"Joe, you're first, then Chris. Mick's after that. The rest of you, chat amongst yourselves. Make sure you're all within a few m^2 of each other, and paddle in each others' way."

Gorgo said...

It works better if everybody just lines up and takes their turn in line.

I won't line up with kooks. I will take turns with other people of a reasonable ability, i.e. if I feel they can take off in a critical spot and make the most of the wave. If they're just going to hang on the shoulder and angle along the wave sorry, but I'm paddling and sitting deeper and not waiting with them. At a couple of places I surf reasonably regularly, if everyone waited their turn with everyone getting a fair go regardless of ability you'd get one wave every few hours.

Gorgo said...

It's easy enough for multiple guys to take off together and the guys in the wrong place pull out if the priority surfer doesn't get the wave.

At most places I surf it's a fast beachbreak. By the time multiple guys get up and realise they should pull out the wave's effectively destroyed. If I'm going for a wave I'm going to get it or signal early that I'm not going to get it and let someone else have a go. I will only paddle for something I'm 99% sure I can make.

One of my pet hates is people who drop in on the off chance you don't know what you're doing. It can significantly affect the wave too. What if I intentionally set up to take off deep, lining up a barrel and someone thinks they should drop in on the shoulder causing the barrel to crumble and not line up properly? Wave's over. This happens all the time in metro Perth.

I won't even paddle for something if I recognise that someone else is in priority and they know what they're doing. You shouldn't have to call or anything. When I have to call someone off my wave they're either a kook who doesn't know any better or someone who's arrogant enough to think they're entitled to drop in and are doing it intentionally. It's rarely a good surfer who's made a genuine mistake, very rarely.

Maybe the multiple take-off technique works on fat mushburgers, but on the waves I prefer there's only room for one.
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
9 Jul 2009 3:43pm
Lobes said...

Its more like snowboarding is to skiing. ie a new sport comes along. Its easy and accessible and the participants seem to be having way too much fun so establishment wankers try desperately to belittle it and even talk about banning it in some areas. Stus article is one of the death throes of the poisonous short board mentality as it clings onto the relevance it used to have. Great article, for about 1998....

You want to use snowboarding as an analogy to SUPing? O.K., if you insist. Before your analogy I would've aligned it to bodyboarding. Simple to learn, easy to get reasonable at, get in the way a lot, dangerous to others, dangerous to themselves, travel in packs, much lower skill level required, think they're ultra cool. Sure, there are those that reach high levels of ability and once you get to that stage your mode of travel is irrelevant. But all levels below that snowboarding/bodyboarding/SUPing(?) is a PITA to others.
Lobes
Lobes
885 posts
885 posts
9 Jul 2009 4:19pm
Legion said...

Lobes said...

Its more like snowboarding is to skiing. ie a new sport comes along. Its easy and accessible and the participants seem to be having way too much fun so establishment wankers try desperately to belittle it and even talk about banning it in some areas. Stus article is one of the death throes of the poisonous short board mentality as it clings onto the relevance it used to have. Great article, for about 1998....

You want to use snowboarding as an analogy to SUPing? O.K., if you insist. Before your analogy I would've aligned it to bodyboarding. Simple to learn, easy to get reasonable at, get in the way a lot, dangerous to others, dangerous to themselves, travel in packs, much lower skill level required, think they're ultra cool. Sure, there are those that reach high levels of ability and once you get to that stage your mode of travel is irrelevant. But all levels below that snowboarding/bodyboarding/SUPing(?) is a PITA to others.



I don't insist. But its a better analogy then "Race-walking". And I dont quite understand the meaning of the rest of your post. Are you suggesting nobody should SUP if they're not an expert? Unreasonable expectation IMO. The best thing to do is educate everyone taking up SUP to proper surfing etiquette.

Which is, frankly, not something I see much value in learning. Way too much chest beating and circle jerks about 'respect' and 'rules of the lineup' screw that. If I wanted laws and rules I'd keep playing football. At least on the field theres only one referee its not every other bloke in the lineup.

I'd rather paddle in flatwater or go back to my deserted home break then chance my tires being slashed or worse at an Aussie beach just bc I'm riding the wrong type of surfcraft.
aus301
aus301
QLD
2039 posts
QLD, 2039 posts
9 Jul 2009 6:36pm
I think the snowboard analogy was more to do with a new sport bucking the established sport. When snowboarding first started out, now I am talking as early as 1981-82, you were not allowed to take a board into a lift area of any Australian resort, slowly that changed, but there are still at least 3 US ski resorts that have a total ban on Snowboarding.

I wouldn't have used an argument about bodyboards, I am sure people rode waves lying down well before any Hawaiian decided you could stand up. Actually there are logs from as early as 1779 that talk about Polynesians riding waves lying down. I think the argument here has been more about something new coming along and how some elements view this newer way to to do what they have done in the past as negative. And I am not really sure how dangerous a body board is compared to a SUP or snowboard, it's just a bit of foam.

But when it comes down to it, the ocean is for everyone, if you can't deal with other people on other craft in the line-up, maybe it is you that are in the wrong place.

Funny, reading some of the posts on here I can totally understand why some surfers hate SUP.
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
9 Jul 2009 7:03pm
Legion said...
... This happens all the time in metro Perth.

...


I'm thinking this might be where the source of confusion and conflict comes from. In metropolitan surf and localised breaks the surfing conditions are more like peak hour traffic with all the rage that goes with it. I avoid some breaks (mostly on the Vic west coast) for this reason.

There's also the political thing of people trying to amplify and exagerate other's words to put a different spin on things. With calling into sets everybody I have ever surfed with gives a nod to the horizon as they paddle out to meet a set. That's what I mean about calling sets. Nobody ever suggested we we would stand there and direct traffic.

At critical waves even on any board you adapt your technique and behaviour to suit the conditions. That's what everybody does.

All the talk about rules and respect and aloha and all that crap is also nothing more than people crapping on on the internet. In reality most people just get out and get along and have a bit fun in the surf. It's not that hard.
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
9 Jul 2009 5:27pm
Gorgo said...

With calling into sets everybody I have ever surfed with gives a nod to the horizon as they paddle out to meet a set. That's what I mean about calling sets.
O.K. I've seen people do everything from shout "outside" (usually reserved for those heavy conditions days), to point, to wave, whatever. All too obvious for me. Here in the overcrowded road rage environment if someone's paddling that's sign enough. There's only one reason why someone's paddling, to get somewhere. Here, if you paddle frantically for a set, lots of people follow. So you've got to slink around, do things slyly. If someone's using verbal signals or hand signals, that's way too obvious. You said surfers were asking you if sets were coming, that's just lazy of them.
ChrisMcC
ChrisMcC
NSW
667 posts
NSW, 667 posts
9 Jul 2009 10:04pm
If the pen was mightier than the sword, then the keyboard is mightier than the pen in this day and age, eh STU?
Just another piece of mindless drivel and view about one persons so called blight in the line up. Amazing that a follow up story comes some days later showing ex pro surfer carving on a SUP. Reeks of a rebuttal regarding a similar mindless rant regarding enviromental issues eh?
And all from a site that can go a week and half without updating it's swell forecast, .
Posting on the internet should not be done from glass houses.
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply