PFDs inflatable vs pfd

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SteveMoresi
SteveMoresi
4 posts
4 posts
7 Jan 2014 3:54pm
Can any one give me some information on what is the best pdf for Stand Up. Also looking for some info on an actual pfd compared to an inflatable. My 14 year old son is not the greatest swimmer but loves stand up and am concerned about his safety when he goes for a paddle and I am on shore. Have checked out the following : Ultra Ocean Racer pfd for $140 from Canoe plus recommended for ocean paddlers was very comfortable but is a for real pfd. Have also had a look at fanny packs in particular the quicksilver one but would appear that can only purchase in USA. Does anyone have any suggestions ? Am told they are compulsory for racing what about in Port Phillip bay. For kayak or canoes it is compulsory when 100 metres off shore. Any one have some thoughts ?
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
7 Jan 2014 7:02pm
Check out the SUP VIC website for info on Victoria's PFD regulations for stand up paddle sports:

www.supvic.com/safety-on-the-water/

In a nutshell, it's over 400m from shore when you need a PFD, except for children under 10 who are required to wear one at all times.

If you are local to Canoes Plus, I suggest you check out the Ultra Pinnacle II. I think it's a better permanent PFD for SUP as it has a hydration pouch at back and a zip at front in case you overheat and need to cool off a little. Ultra also make an inflatable bumbag style but I don't think Canoes Plus carries that one. Try RPS.




Jradedmondo
Jradedmondo
NSW
637 posts
NSW, 637 posts
7 Jan 2014 8:08pm
hi mate
don't normally wear a pfd but in my limited experience the ultras above a pretty good because they have big arm holes and you can carry lots of stuff, i do recall something a little while back i believe where people fell in the water and the inflatable bumbag type where going off (i could be wrong), just see if you can try a few and see what works

Jarryd
Goochi
Goochi
WA
846 posts
WA, 846 posts
7 Jan 2014 5:39pm
Bum bag PFD Type 1 inflatables are great. The WA DoT advocate them as the highest level PFD:

www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC_B_Safety_Equipment_Lifejackets.pdf

They won't go off when they hit the water - you have to pull the tag, but important to keep them in bag with strap. Be wary of purchasing an inflatable PFD type overseas - most local events will have to comply with Australian safety standards - for inflatables it is Level 150 and Australian certified. We had to refuse a couple of South African and US PFDs during the King of the Cut scrutineering.
foamballer
foamballer
NSW
406 posts
NSW, 406 posts
7 Jan 2014 10:08pm
Goochi said..

Bum bag PFD Type 1 inflatables are great. The WA DoT advocate them as the highest level PFD:

www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC_B_Safety_Equipment_Lifejackets.pdf


I was looking at this link, but I couldn't see any reference to bum bag style PFDs. Were you just referring to level 150?
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
7 Jan 2014 10:14pm
foamballer said..

Goochi said..

Bum bag PFD Type 1 inflatables are great. The WA DoT advocate them as the highest level PFD:

www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC_B_Safety_Equipment_Lifejackets.pdf


I was looking at this link, but I couldn't see any reference to bum bag style PFDs. Were you just referring to level 150?



Level 150 refers to the buoyancy and safety standards rating and you will find that this inflatable below has the text "150N MANUAL". It also says Type I, which is the older style ratings system. The red one in the post above is a Type II and it would now be regarded as a Level 50. So the inflatable is substantially safer when inflated. Of course, when it's wrapped up in the bag, it is doing nothing at all towards saving your life so you need to know how to get it out, put it over your head, tie the straps, and pull the cord on the gas cannister all while you are sinking in the water.



I have not experienced one of these inflatables exploding or self-inflating without warning, but what they will tend to do if the bag gets filled with water is the velcro will give way and the vest will flop out. That can be really annoying, especially in the middle of a race. To prevent this, I have put a loose elastic band laterally around the bag, which would be very easy to remove if I needed to get at the vest in an emergency.
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
7 Jan 2014 9:22pm
you know at the end of the day, if you pass out a pfd 1 is the only recognised 'life jacket' and is supposed to support your head.


believe me if you pass out or get knocked out you will not be able to do anything about it
Air80
Air80
102 posts
102 posts
7 Jan 2014 8:27pm
under the old system there was 3 types of life jacket ( + the commercial offshore type N/A here only used on commercial vessels)

Type 1 life jacket- yellow or orange, thick uncomfortable most likley stored in your boat and never use or looked at
Type 2 life jacket , still hi vis colours less neck floatation and a little more comfortable
Type 3 life jacket , waterski jacket wont float your head above water bare minimal floatation

new rating are

150N - provides 150 newtons (measure of power/energy) of buoyancy this is what most commercial operators now use as a minimum i.e. commercial skippers, deck hands, constuction workers working near the water.

100N - provides 100 newtons of buoyancy they say the same as a type 1

50N - provides 50 newtons of buoyancy old level 2

50NS - same as above but not high viz

there is also 180N and 300N used by offshore sailers and marine workers

maritimemanagement.transport.nsw.gov.au/lifejackets/index.html

the thing to remember is that if you fall off and belt your head on the board and pass out the manual jacket might as well be not even be worn...

this is interesting though from the RMS website

www.lifejacketwearit.com.au/vessel-type/paddle-stand-paddleboard/

says that a paddle board is not a vessel therefore you dont need to wear a life jacket

and this is the definition under the international collision regulations
(a) The word ???vessel??? includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft, wing-in-ground-effect (WIG) vehicle, and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
8 Jan 2014 12:10am
Air80 said..


this is interesting though from the RMS website

maritimemanagement.transport.nsw.gov.au/lifejackets/index.html

says that a paddle board is not a vessel therefore you dont need to wear a life jacket




You would want to check local regulations as this only applies to NSW from what I can gather. Transport Safety Victoria's marine safety regulations specifically outline the requirements of PFDs for SUP boards.
Air80
Air80
102 posts
102 posts
8 Jan 2014 3:51am
For Vic - page 50 of the safety handbook

http://www.transportsafety.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/41121/Victorian-Recreational-Boating-Safety-Handbook.pdf

SUP coastal offshore greater than 2 nm (3.7km) from the coast type 1 or 2 or 3, 1 x torch, 2 x orange smoke flare, 2 x red distress flares, EPIRIB, 1 compass.

not sure where you would keep all that,

SUP all other waters ( this would include Port Phillip Bay as not offshore) if greater than 400 m from shore then a PFD 1 or 2 or 3 is required.

SteveMoresi
SteveMoresi
4 posts
4 posts
8 Jan 2014 5:01am
Thanks heaps for the information. In short if you are more than 400 metres off shore in Victoria (Port Phillip Bay) then you need to have a pfd. Anyone know what happens if you are caught without one ??? I assume it would have to be water police and it would be a caution or a fine. In summary I think that the Ultra inflatable would be great for me as a adult and strong swimmer not so sure for my 14 year old son. If he lost his board I am pretty sure he would freak out which would make it tough putting on a pfd and then inflating it. Has anyone used a Ultra Racer pfd or know anything about them ??? I have tried one on at Canoe Plus. They are very comfortable much less bulky than an Ultra Pinnacle still have room for bladder at back and one pocket at the front however they are only rated at 50 Newtons. Is 50 newtons adequate for a 14 year old who is about 70kg ???
Air80
Air80
102 posts
102 posts
8 Jan 2014 6:17am

from the secumar website:

Anyone floating in the water requires a minimum of buoyancy force to keep his head on the water surface as well as to turn his body to keep his nose and mouth above the surface. The distance from water surface to the mouth is called "freeboard", and this distance may be influenced by the clothes worn. An undressed adult will achieve this freeboard with a buoyancy of 100 Newton (N); (10 N = 1 daN = DecaNewton equal to 1 kp. As a safety margin and to ensure turning of the unconscious wearer by the lifejacket, 150 N is required. An inherently buoyant lifejacket of this buoyancy would be much too bulky.

this is the brand i use at work
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
8 Jan 2014 9:31am
SteveMoresi said..

Thanks heaps for the information. In short if you are more than 400 metres off shore in Victoria (Port Phillip Bay) then you need to have a pfd. Anyone know what happens if you are caught without one ??? I assume it would have to be water police and it would be a caution or a fine. In summary I think that the Ultra inflatable would be great for me as a adult and strong swimmer not so sure for my 14 year old son. If he lost his board I am pretty sure he would freak out which would make it tough putting on a pfd and then inflating it. Has anyone used a Ultra Racer pfd or know anything about them ??? I have tried one on at Canoe Plus. They are very comfortable much less bulky than an Ultra Pinnacle still have room for bladder at back and one pocket at the front however they are only rated at 50 Newtons. Is 50 newtons adequate for a 14 year old who is about 70kg ???



50N is fine for your 14 year old. It won't save someone who falls unconscious as it doesn't have the flotation properties to ensure your head doesn't fall forward to stop you from drowning. However I don't think a PFD with that capability would be particularly easy to paddle in. The 50N Ultra Racer would be rated PFD II or III (largely depending on whether it is high visibility or not). Either way it is legal in Victoria.
Snowie
Snowie
NSW
149 posts
NSW, 149 posts
8 Jan 2014 7:46pm
Something else to keep in mind with a pfd is that the bulk at the front makes it harder to slide on a board. Especially so for women, kids and overweight people. Do a few capsize drills and get them to practice kicking with their legs.
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