Proper Paddle height.

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hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
18 Jan 2014 1:28am
I just bought a new Starboard Enduro paddle and I will use it for waves. I usually cut the shaft 8" on top of my head and that is where I place the handle but when I looked on the Starboard website for instructions, it says I should cut it just 2" or 5 cm on top of my head + the big handle that adds another 3" or 8 cm more. http://star-board-sup.com/2014/produ...reate_a_paddle. So that is just 5" over your head. Considering it is measured from top of head to the very top of the handle.
Is that a new trend?
Kym Roberts
Kym Roberts
SA
260 posts
SA, 260 posts
18 Jan 2014 5:19am
I have my surf paddle about 3 inches above my head most sup surfers I know have the same. The trend is getting shorter for the surf for sure..
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
18 Jan 2014 4:02am
You mean 3" over your head is where the top of the handle is?
Dynymor
Dynymor
VIC
77 posts
VIC, 77 posts
18 Jan 2014 10:36am
Depends on what you want to do (surf/race), what board you are on (thickness), and on your own personal preference.
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
18 Jan 2014 10:25am
Yes, I read that article before posting this question. After reading that article you end up with more questions than certainties.
My board is a Jerry Lopez 8'-5" x 28 1/2" with only 106 lts., so pretty small. I am 6'-1".
Today, after reading Kym's post, I tried a paddle that was only 6" longer than the top of my head and I felt like I had to bend myself on every stroke to make the blade reach the water. I mean if I have to bend on every stroke, I will probably injure my back.
What I can't understand is why the Starboard website recommends 2"+3" of the handle, total of 5" above your head. ( http://star-board-sup.com/2014/produ...reate_a_paddle.) That's too short... Is there any strong concept behind going that short? Is everybody going shorter lately?
CJ83
CJ83
VIC
44 posts
VIC, 44 posts
18 Jan 2014 2:37pm
Surely what feels comfortable and practical for you to use is the right length not what "everyone else is doing". Im 5"11 and find a 7ft (2100mm)long paddle really comfy and user friendly on flat, but in the surf i drop it down 100mm so it's only 8" over head. That's on the same 4.5" thick board. Personal preference beats someone else IMHO ;-)
Deano72
Deano72
NSW
540 posts
NSW, 540 posts
18 Jan 2014 3:19pm
Sooooo many factors in determining paddle length that IMO a general rule is only really any good as a starting point.
From that you can then adjust length over a decent period of time....only cut down by about a maximum of 1" at a time so your body and technique can adjust.
Get out there and experiment and you'll get your preferred length dialled in soon enough....and most importantly have fun doing it
LordRumpunc
LordRumpunc
NSW
60 posts
NSW, 60 posts
18 Jan 2014 3:20pm
antonfourie said..

Before you get all the "professional" opinions from the local astroturfers, have a look at this link for some genuine advice

http://www.ridingbumps.com/2013/08/25/the-new-rules-of-sup-paddle-length-determination/



This article talks about "The Chuck Glynn Method." This works for me. I use his eyes for racing and chin for surfing as a starting points. My current surfing paddle is just below the chin and this ends up being "my" preferred height.
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
18 Jan 2014 12:34pm
Well, actually the chin method for surfing is actually a very long paddle. So, the right lenght is probably below the chin...
I was asking this question about the theoretical perfect lenght because I was so surprised after reading on the Starboard website that it was 5" above the head for surfing. I was always tough that 8" was the right number. If Starboard is recommending 5", it must mean the trend is to go shorter. Unless it is a mistake in their web...
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
18 Jan 2014 3:03pm
I've been using one for surf exactly the same as my height.takes some getting used too and makes you bend your knees not your back.It forces you to lower your center of gravity , assisting your balance.
Ali Cat
Ali Cat
QLD
1205 posts
QLD, 1205 posts
18 Jan 2014 5:43pm
I've also got my surf paddle cut right down - its a fraction (<1cm) below head height. As teatrea said, it does take some getting used to, but once you train your body to bend from the knees rather than from the back, it will feel a lot more natural, and I found having a shorter paddle has improved my surfing a lot.

My race paddle is still a bit longer (about 4-5" overhead), but a far cry from the 9-10" for surfing and 11-14" for racing I was using 4-5 years ago (in line with the recommendations at that time).

As Deano suggested, take a little off at a time and let your body & technique adjust - if you go too far at once, you'll probably find yourself off balance (as the blade would be in a completely different location with respect to your body and the water at the same phase of the stroke) and also find yourself getting pretty sore to start with as you're using a whole stack of muscles in a different way than your body is accustomed to.
beerssup
beerssup
NSW
513 posts
NSW, 513 posts
18 Jan 2014 11:27pm
How long is a piece of string? If your that worried about it buy A cheap adjustable and play with the lengths whatever makes YOU comfortable is the best length.
Although I don't buy into this short paddle crap maybe ok if you chicken
scratch aroundfor a hour but I surf long hours at a point break and a short paddle just wouldn't cut it.
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
19 Jan 2014 12:54am
Well, it looks like the 3 last posters have a point. I bought a cheap adjustable paddle to try different lenghts but I still have doubts. As teatrea was saying and I was able to confirm with this cheap paddle, using a short paddle makes you bend and improves your balance because it makes you lower the center of gravity. But as beerssup said, this will make you really get tired too soon and you won't be able to stay long hours paddling with your knees bent. So, there are pros and cons here. The thing is that I don't know how much can you bend your knees without instinctively bend your back. So, if that happens, you will end up with a back problem.
antonfourie
antonfourie
NSW
140 posts
NSW, 140 posts
19 Jan 2014 8:01am
hgrimberg said..

Well, it looks like the 3 last posters have a point. I bought a cheap adjustable paddle to try different lenghts but I still have doubts. As teatrea was saying and I was able to confirm with this cheap paddle, using a short paddle makes you bend and improves your balance because it makes you lower the center of gravity. But as beerssup said, this will make you really get tired too soon and you won't be able to stay long hours paddling with your knees bent. So, there are pros and cons here. The thing is that I don't know how much can you bend your knees without instinctively bend your back. So, if that happens, you will end up with a back problem.


So the paddles that I use vary between a 190cm for surf, a 200cm for racing DW and a 210cm for flat water cruising, going to be trying a 180m & 175cm in the surf, I am around 180cm tall.

Kami
Kami
1566 posts
1566 posts
19 Jan 2014 5:28am
hgrimberg said..

Well, it looks like the 3 last posters have a point. I bought a cheap adjustable paddle to try different lenghts but I still have doubts. As teatrea was saying and I was able to confirm with this cheap paddle, using a short paddle makes you bend and improves your balance because it makes you lower the center of gravity. But as beerssup said, this will make you really get tired too soon and you won't be able to stay long hours paddling with your knees bent. So, there are pros and cons here. The thing is that I don't know how much can you bend your knees without instinctively bend your back. So, if that happens, you will end up with a back problem.


Stretching, stretching, flex on your leg and knee while paddling , strength with no pain will come later with practice and use of adjustable paddle as BeerSup said" play with the lengths whatever makes YOU comfortable is the best length."
You can cut inch by inch as Deano said to know what is good for you, but Stretching, stretching IMO is the most important.
Beasho
Beasho
284 posts
284 posts
19 Jan 2014 6:11am
Shorter - 2" Overhead or less for a dedicated Surf paddle.

People may say it's a matter of preference but I will wholeheartedly disagree.

When I learned to SUP 4 years ago the mantra was 6" - 8" overhead with Laird and Dave Kalama reaching for the sky and bending their hand over their paddle (more like 10"+++ OH). 9' 6" was a short board. . . .

Then things evolved. Boards got shorter and Connor Baxter introduced a choked down stroke that he used to blow away the competition in the Gorge. I started to use the "Connor Stroke" on paddles range from 6" to 11" overhead to catch waves and found that I substantially increased my wave count (e.g. catch). Then we read about people with head high paddles, COLAS, and watched videos of Zane Schweitzer, Mo Freitas and others tearing it up with short boards and short paddles.

The Connor Stroke permits a racer to have multiple gears. The Choke Down is first gear. When surfing you want first gear all the time because you are launching from a stand still to full speed ASAP just like Connor at the start (see below). So I decided to cut my paddle to head high.

The Short Paddle has been a game changer in the waves. My paddle is head high and I no longer need to choke down because I am already there. The secondary benefit is lower swing weight and maneuverability on the wave (some might claim this as primary). Try doing a Crossbow turn with a paddle thats 10" overhead!

In summary when learning, cruising or racing 6"++ is fine but if you want to push your performance in the waves a short paddle is like a short board and it is the best way to help maximize your potential.

Rosscoe
Rosscoe
VIC
505 posts
VIC, 505 posts
19 Jan 2014 10:23am
+1 for Beasho, Ali and Deano.

It is, of course, ultimately down to what you feel is comfortable and the tendency is to bend the back as the paddle length is shortened. But use your knees instead. I don't think you will regret going shorter, especially in the surf. You quickly get used to the shorter length.

On a surf trip to Mexico a year ago I had the great (mis)fortune of breaking my paddle on my very first surf (day 1 into three weeks of surfing). My back-up paddle was an older paddle that I had shortened from the 6 - 8" inch overhead length it started as, but it was still about 4" longer than my primary paddle. It felt so awkward using the longer paddle, it was harder to do those v quick strokes to get up to speed when paddling into a wave and harder to surf generally. Took me a few surfs to get used to it again. I definitely noticed the benefits of the shorter length.

Since that trip I have shortened both my surf and race/downwinder paddles by about another 2".

Also, I have a swollen tendon in my left shoulder from 50+ years of prone surfing. With the shorter paddle length it means that I am not having to raise my arm over shoulder height and it doesn't aggravate the shoulder/tendon.
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
19 Jan 2014 10:00am
Today I used the cheap adjustable paddle I have to test different lengths. I tried 5" over my head and after some time, it really hurt my back because of having to bend so much. If you are in your 20's maybe you wont hurt your back, but if you are in your 40's, then, it will probably happen as it did to me in 1.5 hours of paddling. So, I am more into cutting my paddle 7" on top of my head...
Kym Roberts
Kym Roberts
SA
260 posts
SA, 260 posts
19 Jan 2014 12:54pm
My surf paddle is 3 inches over my head but I would be comfortable taking it down as to head height as my technique has changed, ive been playing around alot with race paddle height and I have found exactly 7 inches is perfect for me.
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
19 Jan 2014 1:41pm
Kym Roberts said..

My surf paddle is 3 inches over my head but I would be comfortable taking it down as to head height as my technique has changed, ive been playing around alot with race paddle height and I have found exactly 7 inches is perfect for me.


Sounds about right.. I'm an old fart and I'm thinking about 8'' over for flat and about 4'' over for surf.
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
19 Jan 2014 11:31am
DavidJohn said..

Kym Roberts said..

My surf paddle is 3 inches over my head but I would be comfortable taking it down as to head height as my technique has changed, ive been playing around alot with race paddle height and I have found exactly 7 inches is perfect for me.


Sounds about right.. I'm an old fart and I'm thinking about 8'' over for flat and about 4'' over for surf.


Considering, like you said, that you are an old fart. 4" over your head doesn't make you hurt your back paddling long sessions bent all the time? I mean, the only way to paddle with short paddles is having your knees AND your back bent. After 2 hours of being bent, you'll end up with a big pain in your back. That's what happened to me today with this adjustable paddle 5" over my head...
Kym Roberts
Kym Roberts
SA
260 posts
SA, 260 posts
19 Jan 2014 3:29pm
It has to be technique because my knees are bent but my back is straight no back pain for me at all ? Actually have a terrible lower back and have alot of pain at work. Paddling is the only time I dont get sore.
beerssup
beerssup
NSW
513 posts
NSW, 513 posts
19 Jan 2014 7:39pm
Beasho said...
Shorter - 2" Overhead or less for a dedicated Surf paddle.

People may say it's a matter of preference but I will wholeheartedly disagree.

When I learned to SUP 4 years ago the mantra was 6" - 8" overhead with Laird and Dave Kalama reaching for the sky and bending their hand over their paddle (more like 10"+++ OH). 9' 6" was a short board. . . .

Then things evolved. Boards got shorter and Connor Baxter introduced a choked down stroke that he used to blow away the competition in the Gorge. I started to use the "Connor Stroke" on paddles range from 6" to 11" overhead to catch waves and found that I substantially increased my wave count (e.g. catch). Then we read about people with head high paddles, COLAS, and watched videos of Zane Schweitzer, Mo Freitas and others tearing it up with short boards and short paddles.

The Connor Stroke permits a racer to have multiple gears. The Choke Down is first gear. When surfing you want first gear all the time because you are launching from a stand still to full speed ASAP just like Connor at the start (see below). So I decided to cut my paddle to head high.

The Short Paddle has been a game changer in the waves. My paddle is head high and I no longer need to choke down because I am already there. The secondary benefit is lower swing weight and maneuverability on the wave (some might claim this as primary). Try doing a Crossbow turn with a paddle thats 10" overhead!

In summary when learning, cruising or racing 6"++ is fine but if you want to push your performance in the waves a short paddle is like a short board and it is the best way to help maximize your potential.


[/quot

You keep choking your stroke or whatever is in at the moment and when your knees and back are rooted cause you paddle is too short come back to what is comfortable and have some fun
By the way I ride a short sup 7'10 custom and my paddle is bout a shucka above my head give or take whatever and my wave count is plenty sometimes you guys take it way too serious it's meant to be fun rember
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
19 Jan 2014 9:57pm
If I stick the handle to the shaft with epoxy glue. Will i be able to remove it and cut the shaft again at a lower lenght?
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
20 Jan 2014 1:46am
hgrimberg said..

If I stick the handle to the shaft with epoxy glue. Will i be able to remove it and cut the shaft again at a lower lenght?


I have found that 5 min epoxy glue will soften in boiling water alowing you to pull the handle off without damaging the carbon.
Marvin
Marvin
WA
725 posts
WA, 725 posts
20 Jan 2014 7:34am
I went with the short paddle fashion. I felt pretty cool and with it. Problem was I ended up having to take an extended period off supping after my shoulder developed bursitis. Steroid injections, physio and rest from paddling followed.

Now I am back to the old school 8" (even surfing) and no problems at all. Keeping the top arm close to horizontal or slightly above horizontal through the stroke seems to put less pressure on the shoulder joint (well, for me anyways). I do miss waves on occasion, but I am no Charles Atlas, and being a part timer I often lack 'match fitness' (probably part of the reason why the shoulders are a bit fragile). My motto now is "if you have to paddle hard to catch the wave, you haven't positioned for the take off correctly".

Disclaimer: old fart part timer.
hgrimberg
hgrimberg
26 posts
26 posts
20 Jan 2014 1:57pm
I believe old farters cant use short paddles because we end up with a lot of pain in your back or shoulders. Being bent for too long cant be good. Maybe just going shorter to 7" or even 6" over your head but never less than that. Youngsters are probably ok with less than that...
Piros
Piros
QLD
7303 posts
QLD, 7303 posts
20 Jan 2014 6:01pm
hgrimberg said..

I believe old farters cant use short paddles because we end up with a lot of pain in your back or shoulders. Being bent for too long cant be good. Maybe just going shorter to 7" or even 6" over your head but never less than that. Youngsters are probably ok with less than that...


No thats not the case I'm 50 and use head high paddle , just drop your elbows you don't need to bend over and this also puts heaps less stress on your shoulders. There is big advantages with short paddles you can change sides when doing a cutback without moving your hands. Alot of pros do this all the time thats how they do those fast snap turns. If your paddle is too long you can't get across the deck without switching hands. Just drop down slowly in length to get used to it.

This is a great shot of Geoff Breen showing the switch without moving your hands.





JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
20 Jan 2014 10:18pm
hgrimberg said..

I believe old farters cant use short paddles because we end up with a lot of pain in your back or shoulders. Being bent for too long cant be good. Maybe just going shorter to 7" or even 6" over your head but never less than that. Youngsters are probably ok with less than that...


Wrong, I'm 55, have a pretty stuffed shoulder, my paddle is an inch shorter than I am.

Think its actually more important to go short paddle if you are on a very small board, on my 7'7 x 27 Starboard anything over head feels way too long, Piros is right, drop your elbows and also drop your shoulder blades by engaging your lats, keep your neck and shoulder as relaxed as you can.

Helps me to think of a V on your back, base of the V is the base of your spine, shoulder blades are the top of the V, try to always shorten the V, retract and engage your shoulder blades to give you lots of space on top of your shoulders and neck. IMO most shoulder pain comes from hyperextending and lifting your arm way over your head, if you paddle with your shoulder deep in the socket that is where it's strongest and least stressed.

Dropping your elbows helps prevent tennis or golfers elbow as well.

It's not about bending your back at all.
Ali Cat
Ali Cat
QLD
1205 posts
QLD, 1205 posts
20 Jan 2014 10:15pm
DavidJohn said..

hgrimberg said..

If I stick the handle to the shaft with epoxy glue. Will i be able to remove it and cut the shaft again at a lower lenght?


I have found that 5 min epoxy glue will soften in boiling water alowing you to pull the handle off without damaging the carbon.


I've successfully gotten a few epoxy glued handles off this way and it does work most of the time - but also had a few that wouldn't and had to resort to borrowing a heat gun to get them off - one was glued so well that the structure of the paddle actually gave before the epoxy bonding it to the shaft and I had to get a new handle.

If you know you're going to want to take it on and off a few times, get yourself a hot glue gun to use instead, then you can heat it up with a hairdryer (or boiling water) to melt the glue and get the handle off - doesn't require as much heat, so less risk of damaging the structure of the handle/shaft, and you can pick up a cheap craft one at woolies for about $10 (not much more than the epoxy), or a more heavy duty one from bunnings for about $20-25.
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