Question for the racers

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Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
22 Jan 2013 10:03pm
For all of you training/racing type paddlers out there what is your take on paddle stroke length, cadence and power?

After tonights paddle I found that increasing paddle speed doesn't necessarily increase board speed, infact for me it felt like board speed decreased. What's your opinion?

Also do you think paddle blade size has a factor in relation to this as well?
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
22 Jan 2013 11:15pm
I'm no expert but I found the opposite..

Higher cadence (faster paddle return) means not letting the board slow down between stroke and that keep board speed up..

But it's hard on your ticker and lungs.

DJ
Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
22 Jan 2013 10:43pm
Yeah I thought that 2 but its like the out rigging strokes that I've heard about the Hawaiian style (long powerful) or Tahitian style (short and quick) I'm far from an expert so I'd like to know more.
PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
23 Jan 2013 12:09am
I like to think it's different strokes for different folks. Seriously. You can't apply the same assumption to everybody.
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
22 Jan 2013 11:13pm
Adapt said...
Yeah I thought that 2 but its like the out rigging strokes that I've heard about the Hawaiian style (long powerful) or Tahitian style (short and quick) I'm far from an expert so I'd like to know more.


dont really know mate , but my take is , your a pretty big guy and long and strong better for the bigger guys. I find if i increase cadence i just start to huff and puff more but dont seem too get any more speed. probably a bit about finding the sweet spot for the board too , letting it glide at its max speed then hitting it again at its apex. Im sure guys like Kelly , p dorries could answer that.
RJK
RJK
NSW
622 posts
RJK RJK
NSW, 622 posts
23 Jan 2013 12:45am
PTWoody said...
I like to think it's different strokes for different folks. Seriously. You can't apply the same assumption to everybody.


I always thought the same. Small blade high cadence for those people that have a stronger cadio fitness, bigger blade slower cadence for those that have a bigger muscle base fitness.

Fast and slow twitch muscles?? Don't really know how to apply it but I've heard it spoken a few times and apparently genetics plays a big part in which dominates you
JasonProsser
JasonProsser
NSW
268 posts
NSW, 268 posts
23 Jan 2013 6:51am
Dave Kalama's opinion: www.davidkalama.com/dont-rush/
HumanCartoon
HumanCartoon
VIC
2098 posts
VIC, 2098 posts
23 Jan 2013 8:00am
PTWoody said...
I like to think it's different strokes for different folks. Seriously. You can't apply the same assumption to everybody.


This.

Just to illustrate, I have three sizes of Ke Nalu paddle, all with the same comfortable shaft length. I'm not fast or competitive in race terms but I had the impression that I was going faster with the little one at high cadence. I have lately been testing this by timing myself with the different sizes over short and middle distances (same board and and fin, in a range of conditions). So far I'm finding I'm slower with the smallest blade at high cadence by about 30-40 sec/km compared to the mid-size. Over a 6k course that's as much as 3-4 minutes. Between the medium and big - seems over short distances up to about 5k I'm quicker with the biggest blade by about 10-15sec per km, longer runs the mid-size has the edge but that's probably more to do with my lack of fitness. I'm tallish and have a lot more body mass to move than most. Light/lean/short paddlers would probably find different.
petedorries
petedorries
QLD
700 posts
QLD, 700 posts
23 Jan 2013 8:34am
Doing a shorter stroke (faster cadance) or a longer stroke (slower cadance) still all comes down to the CATCH.
You need to have a look at your overall technique.
I actually have my guys/gals learn to do both and incorporate both into their paddling.

Paddling effortlessly is the goal.....

Jay- I noticed you were probably over reaching on the catch so not having the blade enter the water at the correct angle????
Its all about the ANGLE OF THE DANGLE
Snowie
Snowie
NSW
149 posts
NSW, 149 posts
23 Jan 2013 10:13am
Go as fast as you can with the same reach and catch at a speed and intensity that your fitness can maintain. A lot easier to say than to do. The Tahitians have proven the dominance of their style over the Hawaiians in OC6 and you just have to look at Olympic rowers to see it in action. No use doing it if you can't maintain perfect form and start throwing your weight around though. Hence the Danny Ching's of this world perform their magic and we scratch our heads and wonder how.

I do think there is an upper limit where rocking the board from high cadence detracts from it, especially for big guys. They blow out quicker and overheat too - it takes a lot more energy to move a longer body over a longer distance at the same cadence.
skebstebamal
skebstebamal
QLD
579 posts
QLD, 579 posts
23 Jan 2013 9:39am
I find u can slow your rate in flat water and let your board glide between strokes (a pause) but you need to be stroking correctly and getting power to the ground. in chopper conditions where the boards momentum is stopped or disturbed I quicken my rate to keep it moving. Same goes for into a headwind and chop etc..

On a long paddle I'll change it up to rest... higher rate less effort to rest muscles, or more power slower rate to rest lungs.....

each to there own.
Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
23 Jan 2013 12:37pm
petedorries said...
Doing a shorter stroke (faster cadance) or a longer stroke (slower cadance) still all comes down to the CATCH.
You need to have a look at your overall technique.
I actually have my guys/gals learn to do both and incorporate both into their paddling.

Paddling effortlessly is the goal.....

Jay- I noticed you were probably over reaching on the catch so not having the blade enter the water at the correct angle????
Its all about the ANGLE OF THE DANGLE


Possibly, only because I've read several times you need to reach more as the further you can reach away the longer your stroke will be. I guess it's just all trial and error for me. Thanks for the tip Pete
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