Need a new paddle for a 14 allwater board soon,
so I read and read a lot about paddle-shafts, like round, round tapered, oval, oval tapered, stiff, flex,
a little more flex and got more and more confused.
How I can compare shafts from different manufactures?

Is it time too think about a with home&kitchen-tools measurable standart what describes stiffness and flex-characteristic of the paddle-shafts ? that everybody can understand and able too reproduce?
Just to judge the application area and personal suitability .

What is your opinion??

grtz
Laz

DavidJohn said..

What was the question?

I think it's more a 'feel' thing rather than a # or science thing.

What DJ said....

Personally , I preffer a much stiffer shaft like type A surfing, a Kialo Methane This has a lot to do with my past experience paddling Canadian canoes. I can really bury the paddle without the flex throwing me off. Regardless, on shorter faster boards, for a bit more responsiveness, I would consider type B bottom flex in a stiffer shaft.

From my limited flat water paddling experience, I find a more flexible shaft is definitely the go. Especially distance paddling, too stiff a shaft is hard work For a nice balance of flex and power, type B like the tampered Ke Nalu, would be the go?

Cheap soggy constant flex paddles are just bloody horrible as are most of the extenables.

Hope this helps?

For me, I find a really stiff shaft like the QB Kahana too hard on my dodgy shoulders.
I prefer a bit of flex to reduce the initial impact on the shoulders. I currently and for a long time have used a Kialoha Methane which had a nice oval shaft, (feels good in the hands), and has a bit of flex.
I just tried a naish adjustable Makani which I thought had probably too much flex, although having said that I would like to use it for a bit longer to really know, but that was my initial thought.
But overall I would say that more than anything it will come down to personal preference. What suits your physiology the best.
And after trying enough different paddles you will know.

RJK said..

petedorries said...

DavidJohn said..

What was the question?

I think it's more a 'feel' thing rather than a # or science thing.

What DJ said....

I disagree, flex is for pansies

i disagree -flexless is for those that don't know an better

i reckon too many paddle companies put it in the too hard basket to develop strong rebounding flexing shafts.

easier just give them stiff shafts and tell them that's what racers use- it's old hat

laceys lane said...

RJK said..

petedorries said...

DavidJohn said..

What was the question?

I think it's more a 'feel' thing rather than a # or science thing.

What DJ said....

I disagree, flex is for pansies

i disagree -flexless is for those that don't know an better

i reckon too many paddle companies put it in the too hard basket to develop strong rebounding flexing shafts.

easier just give them stiff shafts and tell them that's what racers use- it's old hat

Haha, yeah, I just don't understand how flex can be a benefit apart from being softer of your shoulders. In which case surely a smalle blade would achieve the same thing

husq2100 said...

RJK said..

laceys lane said...

RJK said..

petedorries said...

DavidJohn said..

What was the question?

I think it's more a 'feel' thing rather than a # or science thing.

What DJ said....

I disagree, flex is for pansies

i disagree -flexless is for those that don't know an better

i reckon too many paddle companies put it in the too hard basket to develop strong rebounding flexing shafts.

easier just give them stiff shafts and tell them that's what racers use- it's old hat

Haha, yeah, I just don't understand how flex can be a benefit apart from being softer of your shoulders. In which case surely a smalle blade would achieve the same thing

depends, the energy going into flexing the shaft has to be released. It can not be stored in it (hmmm maybe KERS for paddling......anyway) so depending on the shaft design, how that energy is released is key.

Note, the shaft will not "make" energy and a good design should return most of it some how. Just dont want it releasing the energy on exiting the water.

Yeah but the way I see it is rebound only returns the energy when the force you put in the shaft is backed off (at the back end of the stroke). And instead of the blade rebounding though the water giving you "extra power", this force is absorbed through the decellaration of the shaft as your stroke slows at the back end.

Anyway, I still think flex is for pansies, anything else is marketing hype

all i know is the 7.25 innegra fanatic paddle is by far the best paddle i've owned, they have sold bucket loads of them and a paddler like jake jenson, a well known pansy, switches between the carbon and innegra versions- both being flexy


its the future- small blades and good flexy shafts

It's great that there are plenty of paddle options available.
There's no one blade size or shape or shaft stiffness that suits everyone......even though some of the hype would have you believe otherwise.
Demo some different stuff and go with what feels comfortable.....but keep in mind that what's comfortable for you now may not be in the future as your skills grow, fitness changes and technique evolves.

RJK said..

husq2100 said...


depends, the energy going into flexing the shaft has to be released. It can not be stored in it (hmmm maybe KERS for paddling......anyway) so depending on the shaft design, how that energy is released is key.

Note, the shaft will not "make" energy and a good design should return most of it some how. Just dont want it releasing the energy on exiting the water.

Yeah but the way I see it is rebound only returns the energy when the force you put in the shaft is backed off (at the back end of the stroke). And instead of the blade rebounding though the water giving you "extra power", this force is absorbed through the decellaration of the shaft as your stroke slows at the back end.

Anyway, I still think flex is for pansies, anything else is marketing hype

Agreed to a point, just like the flex should be limited to a point. IMO, the shaft will flex somewhat with the intial loading but max out and transmit that force during the stoke

A few things to consider, we are not pushing water backwards, but propelling ourselves forward, levering off the water in front (think of the paddle staying at the point of entry and us and boards moving forward to meet/pass it)

If you are paddling really technically, your paddle is still near vertical when removing to start next storke, so any relaxing will now release what energy is left over through the blade at that point.

If you are a crap paddler like me, then you dont release early enough and that paddle is now pushing up (bogging down the board) and energy is wasted.

Most paddle rates are fairly continuous though out the stroke, ie no real accerlation or decellaration in one stroke.

I think a bit of flex with a medium size blade is great. That said my paddle requirements are very different to most others; I cut my paddles about 1500 - 1600mm. That's from tip of blade to top of handle.
As a result of this I've got some seriously stiff paddles. For example: a 100sq inch quick blade elite racer. Now that's stiff!! With that size blade it gasses me out over any great distance(5k+). It's great for sprinting though.
I've got 5 different paddles in all different sizes/shaft compositions that I've tried and I keep going back to a mid size(95sq") blade and reasonable flex shaft for most of my distance paddling. (After it's cut down it's probably got flex similiar to a longer "stiff" shaft).That's what works for me.
I think it is different for everybody and that there is no single correct answer. Best advice of all is to speak to your local shop and demo as many as possible.

latman said..

the smaller diameter at the top of the shaft will always flex more than the rest of it , I'm sure it could be worked out mathematically if you were so inclined

assuming the same wall thickness through out, and constant shape...

Hi SUP friends,

thank you for the mostly serious and some less serious reactions to this complex topic.
I have actually 4 OC1 paddles and use only one, so I would not like that I have to buy again four SUP paddles , until I found a suitable.
How many " bad buy" paddles have you folks in your garage?

Generally, one can deduce that a paddle is very much judged subjectively, so I try to divide the most important factors of selection into three categories.

1.) Human factor:body size, body weight, fitness level, paddle technique, experience, application area (race- short/long distance/ touring / downwind / surf)

2.) Blade: blade area, width in x axis, length in y axis, shape of the blade, dihedral, flat, concave, deepest spot of the concave respect to the y axis, the shaft/blade angle of attack in degrees.
(the flex characteristics of the blade should neglecting here, although the course also contributes to total flexibility)

3.) Shaft: (The most important Joint IMO btw. the human body and water )
physical properties of the paddle shaft; like geometry (round / oval)
shaft diameter, length, parallel or tapered and the laminate construction

to 3.)

For bending behavior and stiffness of the shafts can be said in general: (see the illustration above)

A.) Constant curve-flex is a one piece shaft with: ( the most offered shaft's I guess)

- constant diameter over the full length, NOT tapered
- round is softer
- oval is stiffer (compared with the same wall thickness)
Diameter size:
- small diameter (1 inch or less) is softer
- bigger diameter is stiffer (compared with the same wall thickness)

B.) Bottom flex
-unknown
(In the case you'll mix a stiff constant flex shaft with a supersoft blade)

C.) Top flex is a one piece shaft with:

Tapered shaft, round or oval ( round is softer, compared with the same wall thickness)
The more tapering the more Topflex
Constant diameter round/oval over the full length,Topflex is build in with gradually extending the fibers

Please tell if I'm wrong or forgot something.I know this is common knowledge for most of yours, but somebody must it write down.

Hope these rough considerations make some & my a pre-selection of the right shafts easier.
Concerning the relative stiffness and dimensions of flexibility "Measuring is knowing" but unfortunately I don't have some test objects...yet.


PS.: Sorry my poor english, the google translator sucks again,
just try to read between the letters.

Paddlezz said..

Hi SUP friends,

thank you for the mostly serious and some less serious reactions to this complex topic.
I have actually 4 OC1 paddles and use only one, so I would not like that I have to buy again four SUP paddles , until I found a suitable.
How many " bad buy" paddles have you folks in your garage?

Generally, one can deduce that a paddle is very much judged subjectively, so I try to divide the most important factors of selection into three categories.

1.) Human factor:body size, body weight, fitness level, paddle technique, experience, application area (race- short/long distance/ touring / downwind / surf)

2.) Blade: blade area, width in x axis, length in y axis, shape of the blade, dihedral, flat, concave, deepest spot of the concave respect to the y axis, the shaft/blade angle of attack in degrees.
(the flex characteristics of the blade should neglecting here, although the course also contributes to total flexibility)

3.) Shaft: (The most important Joint IMO btw. the human body and water )
physical properties of the paddle shaft; like geometry (round / oval)
shaft diameter, length, parallel or tapered and the laminate construction

to 3.)

For bending behavior and stiffness of the shafts can be said in general: (see the illustration above)

A.) Constant curve-flex is a one piece shaft with: ( the most offered shaft's I guess)

- constant diameter over the full length, NOT tapered
- round is softer
- oval is stiffer (compared with the same wall thickness)
Diameter size:
- small diameter (1 inch or less) is softer
- bigger diameter is stiffer (compared with the same wall thickness)

B.) Bottom flex
-unknown
(In the case you'll mix a stiff constant flex shaft with a supersoft blade)

C.) Top flex is a one piece shaft with:

Tapered shaft, round or oval ( round is softer, compared with the same wall thickness)
The more tapering the more Topflex
Constant diameter round/oval over the full length,Topflex is build in with gradually extending the fibers

Please tell if I'm wrong or forgot something.I know this is common knowledge for most of yours, but somebody must it write down.

Hope these rough considerations make some & my a pre-selection of the right shafts easier.
Concerning the relative stiffness and dimensions of flexibility "Measuring is knowing" but unfortunately I don't have some test objects...yet.


PS.: Sorry my poor english, the google translator sucks again,
just try to read between the letters.

You seem to me right about every thing.
Can be forget about relation between the type of shaft section and the length of the shaft.
The mix of these 2 parameters give the effect how you want in the all paddle itself.
I think that dealer of paddle should have different section of carbon pipe in relation of length paddle wanted customer ask for.
IMO, would be custom paddle shop, this way you can have it the way you like, long or short , stiff or flex whatever you like , yep Lacey

I have broken 3 paddles over the last 18 months and have just ordered 4 shafts from exel composites

I ordered 4 No. PCKS 20 @1.65m.

The PCKS 20 is 75% glass / 25% carbon/Kevlar and outer dia 29.5 (approx. 2.5mm wall thickness and weigh 320g at 1.65m.)

Steve @ Exel was helpful and went through the different options and benefits - given my experience with my other 3 paddles (1*trident and 2*QB) I am keen for strength and low flex. One paddle broke 300mm from the top of the shaft and the other 2 in near the middle.

It has been hard to sort out replacements but I am sick of buying new stiffer paddles only to see them fail also.