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Where's My SUP legs! Haa!

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Created by Seajuice A week ago, 21 Nov 2019
Seajuice
NSW, 564 posts
21 Nov 2019 9:58PM
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After about 1 1/2 years foilboarding I decided to start SUP surfing again after purchasing a Sunova Creek.
But I knew I had to start on something much more stable to get the feel again. So back to my most stable board a JP Wide body at 32 inch wide with flat deck which I loved in choppy sloppy conditions. Just as well.
My first knee high wave had me wobbling from rail to rail as I was surfing. Something I never experienced in prone & SUP surfing when learning.
So now I know it's from my serious foiling balance needed to stop copping a foilwing tip in my sides. Lol.
So out in shoulder high peaky & sometimes mushy waves I was very apprehensive but everything started to settle after about an hour surfing.
Within my 3rd hour & last wave I called it quits after being able to do some decent bottom turns & cut backs.
So next session will be on my favourite Sunova Soul which was my go to board in most sessions.
Hopefully no more rail to rail wobbles on that!
Once I'm back to normal I will compare it with my new Sunova Creek.

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1851 posts
21 Nov 2019 10:56PM
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That is one of the main reasons I decided to give up on foiling (at least, for now). After just a few sessions on a foil I found it very difficult to balance on my SUP again. I had to go to a bigger board... Although foiling looks like fun, (and felt great on my few good rides), I love surfing too much to move to foiling...

supthecreek
1823 posts
22 Nov 2019 7:57AM
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Verrrry interesting!

Funny, you'd thing foiling would improve balance.... but it's an interesting topic.

I have been wondering about how the foil crowd feels about SUP surfing after some solid time on a foil.
I'm with CSE... I am too in love with SUP surfing to go anywhere else.

Piros
QLD, 5649 posts
22 Nov 2019 10:07AM
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Yeah agree 100% I used to have really good Sup balance I could paddle on boards so small my shins were wet but after a couple of years on the foil it's all gone. With paddling a foil your whole balance centre reacts off the foil like a keel , take that away you feel like a yacht without a keel . Takes 2 or 3 sessions to start getting back to where you were. The foiling also has got me back onto a prone as well which I thought I was way past . I don't even own a Sup surfing board anymore and can't see myself getting back on one now . With Foil DW paddle & wing plus the prone foil I really never miss out on a day surfing . So yes to those guys thinking about foiling is really does take you away from your Sup surfing and can understand guys not wanting to try foiling for that reason.

tightlines
WA, 3225 posts
22 Nov 2019 8:54AM
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Yep same here, I have spent the last 8 months or so pretty much exclusively foil surfing, the 1 or 2 goes I have had on a regular sup not only have I had trouble balancing whilst waiting for waves, I also found it was so hard to turn.

I usually do a lot of down winding during the summer months when the winds hit WA, they have just started in the last couple of weeks and even on my downwind sup I am falling off a lot more than usual.
I am entered in the 14' class for the King of the Cut because I still can't downwind foil (with a paddle) but now that they have introduced a wing foil division I am likely to do that.
Either way I have a decision to make that is doing my head in, I have paddled every KOTC since it's inception and it doesn't feel right not paddle, decisions.

I think that if you jumped back and forward from regular sups to foil more often it wouldn't be that hard but I was having so much fun on the foil I couldn't resist.

Bender
WA, 2092 posts
22 Nov 2019 9:00AM
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I concur I jumped on my 8"0x27 94L custom SMIK recently after only sup surf foiling the last 9months. It was so hard to stay upright when previously I could stand in it even in 15nts on shores.

Emeboy
NSW, 281 posts
22 Nov 2019 12:52PM
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Nice photo Seajuice.. Jeez its dry!!

That lagoon was where I learnt to Sup many years ago....

hilly
WA, 4938 posts
22 Nov 2019 1:23PM
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Took me 3 sup surfs to get my sup legs back. Then I got pissed off how slow you go, then slowing down even more in turns and the bumpy ride so went back to foiling full time. I miss chucking buckets and barrells but the speed of foiling is addictive.

colas
3505 posts
22 Nov 2019 2:36PM
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It took some time to get back on a SUP after my initial "I only want to foil" period, but afterwards adjusting to foiling takes only 2-3 rides, and adjusting to SUPing is immediate.

Although SUP Foiling is definitely faster and more technical than SUPing, I prefer the accelerations of SUPing where you can fully commit yourself with abandon into it rather than the more progressive thrust of foiling and the need of a constant control. And strangely, foiling remind me too much of windsurfing in waves (fast, technical, and troublesome gear) so that the novelty factor didn't last long me. I must say I was never addicted to speed when windsurfing anyways, only to accelerations.

But I think that this is very specific to where I surf now: powerful beachbreak with avoidable crowds and highly changing sandbanks and tides.
Plus having ultra light SUP board with quobba fins with insane accelerations...

If I had only crowded spots (or if I didn't want to get up very early) and less powerful waves, and only "regular" SUP gear, I can see myself mostly foiling. And I guess foiling is even more addictive if you can surf foil.

hilly
WA, 4938 posts
22 Nov 2019 2:52PM
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colas said..
Plus having ultra light SUP board with quobba fins with insane accelerations...



The speed out of a foil carve dwarfs a sups acceleration, especially on bigger waves when sups top out due to their width and associated drag. Amazing feeling endless acceleration.
And yes it gets me away from the crowd, not many crowd-free quality waves in SW WA

JEG
VIC, 1355 posts
22 Nov 2019 7:21PM
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I know the feeling haha
I went out for sup surf after 5 months of foiling and couldn't hardly stand up and caught one wave and went back to my foil
Also struggle on the 14ft raceboard when I went for a down breeze and as well as surf point break.
At the moment I feel like a kook at these 3 discipline but I'm having soo much
Did you hear that?! Something about = just wing ding it next

colas
3505 posts
22 Nov 2019 4:23PM
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hilly said..
The speed out of a foil carve dwarfs a sups acceleration, especially on bigger waves when sups top out due to their width and associated drag.


Actually speed cannot be felt, our bodies can only sense accelerations. You "measure" speed by your eyes, a different process. I guess it is why some people are not turned on by mere speed. I dont care about big waves, give me small powerful waves. Plus big waves + foil = broken gear or body. And in small powerful waves, I fell faster with a SUP than a foil, because I can tap in more power more efficiently.

For me going fast is only enjoyable if I can launch a big carve. My personal hero and role model has been the king of laydown turns, Craig Masonville, angles that current foils cannot reach without breaching.

Yes, his single fin is out of the water...



We are all different. I just say that not all people get hooked on foiling, just like some SUPers I know went back to prone surfing. It depends on your personal tastes and ridden spots.

ghost4man
331 posts
22 Nov 2019 5:22PM
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I haven't had the opportunity to foil just yet so I cannot comment about the experience.

What I like about SUPing is that felt sense of walking on water. I like it even more on shorter boards where I'm challenged to stay upright which gives me a personal sense of satisfaction particularly when friend's borrow my board and struggle.

What Colas said is correct about speed albeit an oversimplification for what is a complicated process. Speed and acceleration are maths/physics principles which do translate into into a physical experience but which can be seen to require changing reference points.

Jump in a car and maintain a constant speed of 200 km/hr and after a while it will feel like you really aren't travelling that fast. However, the felt sense becomes visceral during the acceleration phase which is the initial part of the movement.

This is why I know my quobba fins have acceleration because I'm used to a different feeling with other fins but once I got on a board with the Quobbas the board took off underneath me much to my surprise and lack of preparation.

This is really all about adjustment to the different modalities.

surfinJ
448 posts
22 Nov 2019 6:23PM
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And here I was teetering on the brink of the foil. After years of saying no way, too old, no time- the way the foil equipment has evolved with the big wings and short wide boards, I was really just a moment from ordering from Gong. Kripes.

I am from origin a pure surfer, now almost 60 first board at 10. After going sup 10 yrs ago due bad shoulders, what I still miss the closeness to the water with prone surf. I still body surf in the summer for the feeling. And foiling would remove me a step further.

What concerned me of the foiling endeavor was the reduced time I would have to surf.
At a certain age you realize that there are only so many surfs still to go. And every foiled I asked, exclusively foiled.

supthecreek
1823 posts
22 Nov 2019 8:45PM
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To the difficulty switching back and forth:

Pretty normal to have a dominant activity, focus your skills in a dedicated way.

Flashback to 1967
Longboards were OUT
Shortboards wer IN

The change was complete.... anyone surfing a longboard in 1970 was a total kook.
They were discarded or cutdown to make shortboards.... it was ON!!

except:
I was just getting good at noseriding in 1967.... and I missed it.
So, I bought a Greg Noll Black "da Cat" for $60 and surfed both LONG and SHORT.

How does this fit in here?

After a few sessions on LONG..... I simply couldn't surf SHORT anymore
The shortboard felt like a potato chip.... all squirrely and feckless

SO.... I started bringing BOTH boards to the beach every session
I surfed SHORT for a few waves, the surfed LONG for a few waves.

Soon I had created a "chip" in my head dedicated to each activity.

There was no longer any issue at all when I changed boards... I simply switched "chips"

Oddly enough, each "chip" even changed my vision, especially on mushy days

When on shortboard, waves looked smaller and weaker
When on longboard, waves looked bigger and more powerful

Moral:
go back and forth for a while, in the same session...... to build a foil "chip" and a SUP "chip"

my daily grind
Lug the massive Black CAT and the Channin up and down the 100' sand dune every session
no.... I don't still have da CAT






surfinJ
448 posts
22 Nov 2019 9:21PM
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I hear ya, but I have always surfed short and long back and forth. Maybe the same is true here.
But still don't see the foil guys looking back much. Can't picture turning my back on the surf.

hilly
WA, 4938 posts
22 Nov 2019 9:32PM
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Can't picture turning my back on the surf.


But you aren't

IanInca
44 posts
23 Nov 2019 5:32AM
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Would you say this perceived "lack of sea legs on a sup after foil sup surfing" would be true with Wing Sup Foiling?

I have a 5m wing and was intending to learn to foil with it in the new year - i've really enjoyed cruising with it on a regular sup for a few months. As with the comment by surfingj above, I love surfing on a Sup and don't want to loose my mojo..! I was intending to foil with the wing cruising around on the estuary I live on and the odd wave I get on my doorstep. But my normal surf spots I wouldnt be taking the wing or foil.

Do you think this is a different scenario as its wing and foil board not sup foil surf?

ghost4man
331 posts
23 Nov 2019 6:03AM
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supthecreek said..
To the difficulty switching back and forth:

Pretty normal to have a dominant activity, focus your skills in a dedicated way.

Flashback to 1967
Longboards were OUT
Shortboards wer IN

The change was complete.... anyone surfing a longboard in 1970 was a total kook.
They were discarded or cutdown to make shortboards.... it was ON!!

except:
I was just getting good at noseriding in 1967.... and I missed it.
So, I bought a Greg Noll Black "da Cat" for $60 and surfed both LONG and SHORT.

How does this fit in here?

After a few sessions on LONG..... I simply couldn't surf SHORT anymore
The shortboard felt like a potato chip.... all squirrely and feckless

SO.... I started bringing BOTH boards to the beach every session
I surfed SHORT for a few waves, the surfed LONG for a few waves.

Soon I had created a "chip" in my head dedicated to each activity.

There was no longer any issue at all when I changed boards... I simply switched "chips"

Oddly enough, each "chip" even changed my vision, especially on mushy days

When on shortboard, waves looked smaller and weaker
When on longboard, waves looked bigger and more powerful

Moral:
go back and forth for a while, in the same session...... to build a foil "chip" and a SUP "chip"

my daily grind
Lug the massive Black CAT and the Channin up and down the 100' sand dune every session
no.... I don't still have da CAT







Great memories story.

Wise words as well.

I regularly - 3 times a week jump on a Swiss balance ball for that very reason to focus on balance which has translated very well to what I do on a board.

Its about building and maintaining muscle memory for that activity.

stehar
NSW, 262 posts
23 Nov 2019 9:43AM
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Been out a couple of times in the surf - goes well BUT I need to be on a beach break with mellow swell and highish tide. Where are the mates I usually surf with and have coffee with after an enjoyable session? They are surfing at our usual haunts! This topic has brought home to me what is important. It seems you/ I will not do both successfully. I enjoy my SUP surfing lifestyle and the social aspects. The enjoyment and enthusiasm of the foilski experiment - successful surfwise - must be balanced against the loss of enjoyable company - my wife surfs with me, mates too - paddle rivers and share weekend trips SUP surfing, SO who wants to buy my foilski and go foil 750 mast and two wings.
I know I havn't been doing it long, but I thought it would be like taking two different sized boards to the beach and choosing the best craft - not so! Not willing to change I suppose.

Steve


colas
3505 posts
23 Nov 2019 1:48PM
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surfinJ said..
What concerned me of the foiling endeavor was the reduced time I would have to surf.



Not necessarily. Foiling allow you to get out in crappy conditions (light onshore, tide too high, afternoon breezes) where you would not have surfed anyways. Granted here on the beach breaks onshore winds can make things unmanageable quickly (rips), so regular foiling here means a lot of trips to St Jean de Luz. But if like me you do not like wind on the water (an overdose of my Windsurfing years I guess), you wont be able to motivate you to get out on onshore days, even knowing foiling will be OK.

And although most people only foil during the learning phases, the foilers I know (granted I do not know the the local ones) like Xavier Leroy still surf a lot.

Emeboy
NSW, 281 posts
23 Nov 2019 8:23PM
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supthecreek said..








Oh my lord STC.... Check your grizzly self out!!!
What a classic photo!! Love it

stehar
NSW, 262 posts
23 Nov 2019 9:36PM
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Rather than black or white, SUP or Foil - how about black and white - SUP in morning with friends and coffee/lunch whatever. FOIL in mid afternoon when windy and choppy. Have to fit a nanny nap in there somewhere though!
Steve ps nothing for sale!

IanInca
44 posts
23 Nov 2019 7:57PM
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Select to expand quote
stehar said..
Rather than black or white, SUP or Foil - how about black and white - SUP in morning with friends and coffee/lunch whatever. FOIL in mid afternoon when windy and choppy. Have to fit a nanny nap in there somewhere though!
Steve ps nothing for sale!


...thats called living the dream and I'm jealous!! The reality for alot of people is work, kids, wife etc... means a limited window of opportunity. Factor in conditions and for me it's not black and white. Continue to improve and love sup surf or put it on the back burner and learn to wing foil sup..

First World problem!!

supthecreek
1823 posts
23 Nov 2019 8:50PM
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IanInca said..

stehar said..
Rather than black or white, SUP or Foil - how about black and white - SUP in morning with friends and coffee/lunch whatever. FOIL in mid afternoon when windy and choppy. Have to fit a nanny nap in there somewhere though!
Steve ps nothing for sale!



...thats called living the dream and I'm jealous!! The reality for alot of people is work, kids, wife etc... means a limited window of opportunity. Factor in conditions and for me it's not black and white. Continue to improve and love sup surf or put it on the back burner and learn to wing foil sup..

First World problem!!


Wait.... WHAT?
You mean I shoulda worked during the day, all my life?

Damn.... I screwed that one up.

surfinJ
448 posts
23 Nov 2019 9:49PM
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Select to expand quote
IanInca said..

stehar said..
Rather than black or white, SUP or Foil - how about black and white - SUP in morning with friends and coffee/lunch whatever. FOIL in mid afternoon when windy and choppy. Have to fit a nanny nap in there somewhere though!
Steve ps nothing for sale!



...thats called living the dream and I'm jealous!! The reality for alot of people is work, kids, wife etc... means a limited window of opportunity. Factor in conditions and for me it's not black and white. Continue to improve and love sup surf or put it on the back burner and learn to wing foil sup..

First World problem!!


So that's what it comes down to. If I had that 'real' surfers life I have always been jealous of, no commitments/obligations ,I could surf every morning and foil the afternoons away. An honest appraisal of my situation shows no real extra time for the foil.

Though I am stoked for you guys with the chance to foil and enjoy the stories.

stehar
NSW, 262 posts
24 Nov 2019 10:09AM
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70 next birthday - last 10 years have changed lifestyle to maximize leisure time. I work most weekends and blocks of 4 or 5 days in school holidays, really enjoy this, as I get to take clients to the beach, pictures, bowling and SUP if possible - fishing is a disaster - how many hooks stinkers and line can you pull out of an overhanging tree? Anyway, life is beautiful! Steve

Seajuice
NSW, 564 posts
25 Nov 2019 9:09PM
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Ha ha! Didn't think there would be so many replies to this subject.
So have to agree with STC. I am trying to get instant adaptability to all the types of surf craft that I have, whatever conditions I am confronted with.
I hate finding out that I have to have a lay day on a day I was looking forward to surf.
Obviously I started shortboarding in the early 80s as a teen. Those memories never fade. So I love to get on a short board to remind me of the feel of those early years. But since then responsibilities & family became first priority & my passion of fishing took away 20 years of surfing.
So at 40 years of age my interest came back to surf again and I could afford to buy a surfboard. I found my ability to paddle hard was lacking seriously. And my board was 7ft long? Couldn't duck dive easily as I still had the muscle memory & ability to eskimo roll better to be able to get out through the breakers.
Then I was introduced to paddleboarding in my 50s by my older mate who was a great surfer in his youth. So once I tried that, I have never looked back. Well I tell a lie. I did look back again & found that I could surf short boards better due to the waves looking less intimidating from paddleboarding experience. But still crap at it compared to most shortboarders.
Then came the other two challenges. Foilboarding & Windwings. So love them all. And all have their place on the days & conditions that present themselves.
So at this stage I have learnt to foil board in surf and yet have to master the Windwing.
So hoping that I will be able to program myself to be able to grab whatever surfcraft for the given conditions expected for the day ahead.
And I am quite sure it's achievable as I have adapted to go from SUP to shortboard on the same day many a time in the past years.
So again like STC says. Just got to program those chips in my head to be able to adapt.
Absolutely love the challenges & the feel of surfing in different ways.
And it keeps me highly motivated too.

The paddleboard: Early entry, paddle speed & setup to take on what's ahead.

The shortboard: Feels like a skateboard on water after a paddleboard.

The longboard: Glide & cruising for me. Haven't nose rided as yet. OMG another challenge! Haa!

The foilboard: The speed, glide, carving, smoothness & quietness on just the swell.

The Windwing: To take advantage of those blown out days. No paddling! Wind power only! Just hang on & have fun!

Love it.

hilly
WA, 4938 posts
25 Nov 2019 7:20PM
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You forgot mtb for the onshore no swell days

backbeach
NSW, 1 posts
26 Nov 2019 2:57AM
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G'day, long time purveyor and first time poster. Trying to get a handle on supsurfing atm and am a shortboarder of 4 score years and a bit of loose change as well. Gotta Atlantis Vex 9' x30" first board which can't judge cos the bloke on tops the wobbly one-but defs got the fire in the belly for this sup gig and that's with still shortboarding most days.
This thread has really peaked my interest because I kinda saw myself moving towards the hybrid sup surf/foil board when I can snatch the pebbles from the hand and move onto next level(e.g sunova 2in1 or starboard hypernut). But riding waves has always been my focus and love.
Had a crack at kiting but found all the gear and hardwares a bit OTT and pretty much was aiming for using it as another vehicle for surfing anyway with zero interest in the cirque de soliel acrobatic **** that goes down with it-just a personal thing but it cracks me up seeing foils hung out to dry with airs and such (similarly with shortboard airs!)-but I digress.
A chap called Casso did a great review of the 2 in 1 here and no doubt is skilled up enough to change horses in midstream and even bagging out his own impressive foil surfing. But I'm picking up from the diehard surfers here like STC and Colas that they're adopting the KIS method and sticking with sup surfing, albeit with a flotilla of boards you could go to war with, and loving the connection of different waves, conditions and board designs-that direct interface between rider and wave. Having said that there's some folks that have parted ways from surfing and gone to foiling with a bit of a rude shock upon doing the prodigal son return, why seajuice started this thread and what's prompted me to ramble on. Its really helping me to synthesise things because I'm finding it excitingly overwhelming as a newby not only the massive plethora of different boards and applications like racing downwiding and surfing, but all the shiny bright objects like foils and windwings, it sort of does ya head in a bit. totally get everyones different and its all there for us to experience and enjoy but I'm gunna enjoy keeping it simple and just surf. I'll never exclude venturing elsewhere but KIS is a tried and true for me.
Hey STC that's a sweet looking rounded pin (and if you were in oz the durrie would have been firmly implanted in the gob without singeing a single hair). Cheers folks

FRP
345 posts
26 Nov 2019 1:31AM
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Backbeach

Great first post! It had me smiling as I was reading along. Keep them coming. Yes I am also trying to "KISS" but all the talk and stoke about foiling certainly has my attention. I suspect our wicked beach breaks may be the reason we see so few foils out here on the west coast of Vancouver Island.

Bob



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"Where's My SUP legs! Haa!" started by Seajuice