Concaves and Paddling direction

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Souwester
Souwester
WA
1267 posts
WA, 1267 posts
14 Jan 2010 8:31pm
Just chasing the exact science involved with concaves? As in double to single etc..

How do they help your surfing and how did they come about?

Also any ideas on paddling slightly side on as opposed to straight when taking off. Would paddling slightly side on to the face with a longboard help get onto a faster wave like it does on a shorter board or would it end in a rollover with the rail catching?

Will be trying it out on the weekend but thought I would throw it out there.
obct
obct
NSW
3487 posts
NSW, 3487 posts
15 Jan 2010 8:25am
Don't know much about concs but I do know that paddling slightly in the direction of the ride helps me avoid nose dives.

62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
15 Jan 2010 7:48am
If your either on a late take off or a sucky low tide grinder,paddling slightly sideways is the key.
I don't bother when the tide is fullish because you need that bottom turn to generate some speed.

mac
obct
obct
NSW
3487 posts
NSW, 3487 posts
15 Jan 2010 11:21am
good explanation mac.

Must remember that.

62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
15 Jan 2010 8:32am
Concave on the nose will give the board more left for nose ridding.
KEARNSY
KEARNSY
WA
1322 posts
WA, 1322 posts
15 Jan 2010 9:39am
Paddling on an angle is the key to late take offs or really quick waves. Sure a bottom turn generates speed but sometimes if you do a full bottom turn you will get caught behind the lip. Secret is to pattle on an angle- say 30 degs do the beach , get half a bottom turn in as soon as possible and start your turn before you get to the bottom , then get back up on to the face as soon as possible. On a mal you should have instant speed.
PAddling is the key here though- this wont work unless ur entering the wave at max paddle speed.

Concave is another story- I gotta do some work , stay tuned
cRAZY Canuk
cRAZY Canuk
NSW
2528 posts
NSW, 2528 posts
15 Jan 2010 1:20pm
The lunch time spot at Mona Vale we ride is south of the SLSC at the rocks and is generally a really fast wave - I've been working on the angled take off on the short board with a small "hop" to finish the turn and get up the wall for some speed.

Not as easy as it sounds but when you get it right you get going quickly - if you stuff it up the wave passes you

Concave in the nose helps the lift but you need board speed for it to work and a little extra foam if your a bigger person like me. Concave down aft helps with lift and edge hold.
obct
obct
NSW
3487 posts
NSW, 3487 posts
15 Jan 2010 1:21pm
All correct kearnsey but I still think mac makes a good additional point by saying that the fuller the wave the straighter the paddle and maybe not just for the speed of the bottom turn.

The fuller the wave the harder it will be to paddle on to it so the straighter you need to be to get the required speed.

When you think about it, most really full waves aren't going to close out all that quick anyway.





KEARNSY
KEARNSY
WA
1322 posts
WA, 1322 posts
15 Jan 2010 10:42am
obct said...

All correct kearnsey but I still think mac makes a good additional point by saying that the fuller the wave the straighter the paddle and maybe not just for the speed of the bottom turn.

The fuller the wave the harder it will be to paddle on to it so the straighter you need to be to get the required speed.

When you think about it, most really full waves aren't going to close out all that quick anyway.



It totally depends on the bank .

With full waves still paddle on an angle. If you want to make that first section , the wave will push you allong the face as it crumbles on ur legs.
Paddle speed is the key
Bottom turning mals can sometimes wipe speed off and not get you back up the face with enough momentum.

obct
obct
NSW
3487 posts
NSW, 3487 posts
15 Jan 2010 3:49pm
Yes, I have noticed that, the bigger the board the less omph it seems to have after the bottom turn.

Ps. everyone have a good weekend, I've got no internet at home until Monday so this will be my last look at the web.

Should give me the time I need to knock over that MP book
Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
15 Jan 2010 8:17pm
There's more than you even wanted to know about this subject on swaylocks. And on realsurf, Nick Carroll's posted a pretty definitive post about it too.
Souwester
Souwester
WA
1267 posts
WA, 1267 posts
18 Jan 2010 1:18pm
Gave paddling side on a crack on the weekend. It sort of worked, was tough going as there was a 20kn SE trying its best to stop me getting onto the face before it closed out.

I will persevere however, one thing I did learn was to drink plenty of water during the session as got a cracking headache after about 2 hours
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
18 Jan 2010 3:41pm
Yeh tuff going paddling into a wave with 20 knots spiting water in your eyes

mac
billboard
billboard
QLD
2819 posts
QLD, 2819 posts
26 Jan 2010 3:45pm
Ok - in my experience the concave under the nose will create some lift but it has much less bearing on the board than the concaves through the bottom and out the tail. A single concave will usually make the board a lot faster and can create almost a suction effect on really big waves which can be good if you are only screaming down the line trying not to get killed, but it can be hard to break the board loose for critical or fast turns on this type of board. This is why most shapers put some double through the tail - to allow the rider to keep a little looseness in the tail and make turns easier. So I guess thats why the most common bottom you will find on any board is a single into double concave and also becoming more common now on mals are also single with some vee through the tail to allow the board to transition better from rail to rail. I am certainly no expert on the finer details on bottoms shapes/contours - I just kinda try to keep it as simple as I can.
As for angle on take-off, I reckon it depends a lot on where you take off as to how much angle you have when you paddle in. If you take off right in the pocket then you wanna have heaps of angle and heaps of speed or you are gunna get eaten most times. Take off further out on the shoulder and you can get away with going a bit straighter perhaps but obviously the suckiness of the wave is going to dictate how you paddle in. I believe the most critical thing when paddling in is having enough momentum paddling and you are better to take two more paddle strokes than two less paddles as it can mean the difference between pulling yourself onto the wave face and getting pitched into the abyss !! If you are going to take off late on suckier waves you really need to be prepared to take off almost sideways and stay low on the board holding your outside rail until you have enough open wave face to stand and set yourself up a bit better. Its fun to practice this in fast little close out beachies and get it wired before tackling heavier waves - then it will be second nature to you and your confidence will just grow and grow. Hope this helps.





62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
26 Jan 2010 2:23pm
Clap Clap well put BB, now what do you think of the Razer for a 95 kgs looking for a pure performance machine.

mac
P co
P co
WA
458 posts
WA, 458 posts
26 Jan 2010 4:26pm
I find the fin se-up will make a bigger difference. With a single fin on either a mal or short board you can take off late almost sideways and the board will gently slide a bit before getting traction and you are going. Do the same with a thruster and you are more likely to get pitched.
obct
obct
NSW
3487 posts
NSW, 3487 posts
26 Jan 2010 8:56pm
P co said...

I find the fin se-up will make a bigger difference. With a single fin on either a mal or short board you can take off late almost sideways and the board will gently slide a bit before getting traction and you are going. Do the same with a thruster and you are more likely to get pitched.


I must try that on my 10' board. I often notice that guys with a single fin setup seem to take off much better than me especially across the face. I just put it down to them being lighter than me and much better surfers.

Trouble is, it's got a future fin set up so I'm going to need to buy a new centre fin.

The original is only 8", would I need a 10" for a board that long?






obct
obct
NSW
3487 posts
NSW, 3487 posts
27 Jan 2010 10:52am
oops, my bad!

I just realised the future system only applies to the side fins, the centre fin shoud be a normal fin box and I think I've already got a spare 9.5" fin at home.

I still may have a look around for another one with a more bulbous tip.

That seems to be what most guys have when they use a single.

Buggered if I know why it would be better but I reckon they know more than me so I'll just go with the flow.

billboard
billboard
QLD
2819 posts
QLD, 2819 posts
27 Jan 2010 12:30pm
62mac said...

Clap Clap well put BB, now what do you think of the Razer for a 95 kgs looking for a pure performance machine.

mac


I think if your dimensions were in the vicinity of 9.3 x 23 x 3 with a bit of a pinched rail then you would probably have the ultimate wave destroyer for someone your size. I am kind of biaised though cos I reckon those dimensions are about the perfect size for a McTavish - no matter what the model. I am also a bit of a fan of the razar and have won comps in 1 ft on one and surfed triple o/h on the same board. They just needed to be tamed a little to make them more usable by the masses and I reckon what you have asked for with your custom may just be what the model needs. (do you know how much it makes my fingers ache typing something that agrees with you )

Its been a long long time since I have been on a real board - may have to catch up when you take delivery I think.
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
27 Jan 2010 11:30am
As Lacey would say cheers. Yep its 9.3x23x3 may take delivery this Friday
Could you explain why the Razer needed taming down
I spoke with Jackson last year in relation to the board he was riding and he said it was a Razer with a couple of changes. I ordered one and it didnt go so well for me

mac
billboard
billboard
QLD
2819 posts
QLD, 2819 posts
28 Jan 2010 12:42pm
I just think that the rails on the razar were a little bit unforgiving and bitey, especially when you don't want it to bite !! Great rails for throwing around but not enough hold when you are trimming or walking or hanging off the side of an overhead freight train and just want it to get you outta there fast and safe. I reckon the thickness that you have put in your board will do wonders for the board and it'll be pretty much the perfect all round weapon. Why not give it the ultimate test - when you pick it up take it down to the rivermouth at broken - thats razar country (but not according to the shortboard pack there )

Cheers (sorry couldn't help myself)
Makaha
Makaha
1145 posts
1145 posts
28 Jan 2010 11:26am
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62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
28 Jan 2010 11:58am
Word on the street is, it will be in store tomorrow
Test BB, will be Snapper next decent swell,which surly
cant be too far away
I am hoping its the board for steep drops and waves with some
power, I'll still use the FB, its the longest I've ever kept a board
for,I just love the thing.

mac
Souwester
Souwester
WA
1267 posts
WA, 1267 posts
28 Jan 2010 2:08pm
I hear what your saying with the fireball. Gonna give it a good test next weekend down south. Will be my first trip to the South West on a Mal. In fact havent really surfed down there much, used to hit Rabbits on the booger. Hopefully Yallingup is not too big for it (ME). Taking a mate in the know so lookin forward to it. Hopefully get some pics
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