I had a pretty nice session yesterday
Board: slingshot freestyle 115
Sail: Hot sails maui speed freak 6.5

Initially, I went out with the infinity 76 and was doing very well (wind was probably 12-17 mph), but it started to pick up so went in to add some downhaul. It continued to pick up (maybe 20-25 mph) so I went in and switched down to infinity 65. Below is the gps graphs for all three sessions. I am pretty certain I am at top speed on the i76 (about 16knots). I am less experienced on the i65, but was able to hit 18 knots a few times and might have hit 20 knots once briefly.

I was out from about 9.30 to 11.30 am but the wind sensor is on the beach so obviously there is considerably more wind on the water, but you can get a sense of the wind trend at least.

PS: 18 knots feels hecka lot faster than 16 knots

LeeD said..
Sometimes I go from the 600 kitewing to the 1220 windsurf wing just to see if I can jibe.
Smaller a bit faster, compared to other foilers in the water, but overall feel is the same.
Low drag is the plus with the kitewing.
Obviously, earlier foiling with the 1220 and
better glide.
Unfortunately, I can only foil jibe with the 600, as it just needs speed, like a slalom board, to foil around.
Can't see more than 2 mph difference.

My first full foiling gybe was on a speed wing warpspeed 65 www.slingshotsports.com/Hover-Glide-Warp-Speed-65cm-Carbon-Wing, so speed does seem to help. That gybe was at candle stick, I am thinking a fast wing would make gybing in big chop more difficult.

Overall, I find the mid sized wings the easiest to gybe (eg infinity 76/Apollo 60), probably cause I spend more time on them now than the i65 or warpspeed or maybe the lower aspect ratio of the mid sized wings is better for gybing. I spend a lot of time on the infinity 99 and find it much harder to gybe than the infinity 76.

Interesting that your kitewing is only about 2mph faster than the 1200. I thought I would be a lot faster on the infinity 65 than the infinity 76 but it doesn't seem the case so far, although maybe 18-20 knots maybe fast enough.

thedoor said..
I had a pretty nice session yesterday
Board: slingshot freestyle 115
Sail: Hot sails maui speed freak 6.5

Initially, I went out with the infinity 76 and was doing very well (wind was probably 12-17 mph), but it started to pick up so went in to add some downhaul. It continued to pick up (maybe 20-25 mph) so I went in and switched down to infinity 65. Below is the gps graphs for all three sessions. I am pretty certain I am at top speed on the i76 (about 16knots). I am less experienced on the i65, but was able to hit 18 knots a few times and might have hit 20 knots once briefly.

I was out from about 9.30 to 11.30 am but the wind sensor is on the beach so obviously there is considerably more wind on the water, but you can get a sense of the wind trend at least.

PS: 18 knots feels hecka lot faster than 16 knots

You should easily get another couple of knots from each wing.
I was getting about 20 knots from the 76 and 22 from the 65 most sessions, without pushing it.
Surprisingly, even 20 knot short boosts downwind on the 76 in marginal 10-14 knot gusty breezes.

Max speeds were 23.6 (76) and 24.4 (65) knots in biggish swells.
I think you could get another knot or 2 on flat water, but it's definitely not race kit and the overall drag (from mast, fuse, rear wing, holes etc) becomes obvious.

Frothing to see if the carbon Phantasm mast is more slippery

Numbers are just that...a reference to be used in relation.
Maybe in reality you are the same speed!
My 17 might be slower than your 15.
Electronics are notoriously inaccurate.

I'm hoping that the Phantasm windfoiling foils offer a long 125 cm. mast but I suspect we'll be stuck with the usual 100, 90 and 70 cm. lengths. The slightly smaller, tuned i76 (730) foil shown in the Big Winds video might end up being the wing of choice with foilers switching out sails around it, giving it a huge wind range. I think the stab will be 400 sq. cm. There will probably be some HA wings offered and the new Moses HA 950 should fit on the fuse since the Moses 1100 fits.

Here's the Big Winds video for those that missed it.



Here's the Moses 950:

www.sailworks.com/the-gear/foiling/wings-stabilizers/moses-950-carbon-front-wing-for-windfoil.html?utm_source=seabreeze.com.au

Moses 1100 fitted on the Phantasm fuse (see end of video). This was the kite setup used for winging:

KDog said..
I have no way to measure speed but the 65 inf. feels a bit faster but not buy much I really want to make the 65 my go to wing and really have to force myself to use it more ,the 76 is just so forgiving in the jibes. The Phantasm masts and wings look really nice Greg one of their team riders has a couple and the mast is very impressive ,the wings look like a refined version of infinty and the tail wing is all new looks a bit more slippery through the water. The covid has really slowed shipping down its frustrating for these companies to bring product from asia to market as their seems to be a shortage of empty containers they all seem to be in the wrong place. Here on the west coast of the US certain size wetsuit from most brands are sold out as they to come from asia.

Have you tried the Apollo 60? I like it a lot. Super surfy, gybes so well, lower stall speed relative to i65 but lower top speed. I think I clocked myself at 17knots on the Apollo 60.

But I have a feeling (at least I am hoping) that the phantasm 730, will be a slightly faster version of the 76 with the same take off/stall speed.

I started on 70 cm Naish, bought and tried the 90 for a week, bought and now only using the 65 5 month ago.
Quicker response, nicer turns.

It seems the i76 tops out at around 20 mph. The new Phantasm foils will likely improve the speed over the i76 by a fair margin since they will include some HA type foils.

I have the FS115 and was thinking of purchasing the Wizard 114 for wind and wing foiling. I think you also have the 114 -- which do you prefer? Any notable differences?

dejavu said..
It seems the i76 tops out at around 20 mph. The new Phantasm foils will likely improve the speed over the i76 by a fair margin since they will include some HA type foils.

I have the FS115 and was thinking of purchasing the Wizard 114 for wind and wing foiling. I think you also have the 114 -- which do you prefer? Any notable differences?

20mph at least for me, but I think others have gone faster than 20mph. It would be super nice if the phantasm PFI 730 was a faster version of the 76, but with the same stall speed of the 76.

The FS115 is my all-time favorite board, but the wizard 114 is a better all around board. The wizard 114 gets going a bit earlier and is a bit easier to gybe, but the freestyle gives me a bit more control over a lifting foil and it is better in very big swell. If I had of started on the w114 instead of the wizard v2 (first the 125 then the 105), I may have never felt the need to go to the FS115, but the wizard v3 isn't going to replace the freestyle for me.

I felt like there was too much overlap between the w114 and FS115 so I sold the w114. I am planning on adding the w130, as my lightwind board, when they get back in stock.

thedoor -- did you ever try riding the 114 with the foot straps set in the front furthermost position (for winging)? I've found that in high winds on the FS115 I have placed my front foot in front of my front strap in order to keep the foil from breaching. This would be about where the front winging straps on the Wizard 114 would be. If you were too front foot heavy I suspect you could just move the foil's mast a few centimetres forward to balance out the foot pressure.

Also, does moving the foot straps to a more inboard position give you more control over the foil?

@thedoor - Interesting pictures. According to SS the Wizard is 10 cm shorter, 5 cm narrower and essentially the same volume. It doesn't look thicker in your pictures to make up for it. Did you feel they were about the same volume? Was the Wizard shorter and narrower? (I've always said that plume is the number the marketing departments like to fudge with the most.)

BullroarerTook said..
@thedoor - Interesting pictures. According to SS the Wizard is 10 cm shorter, 5 cm narrower and essentially the same volume. It doesn't look thicker in your pictures to make up for it. Did you feel they were about the same volume? Was the Wizard shorter and narrower? (I've always said that plume is the number the marketing departments like to fudge with the most.)

I don't have that w114 anymore so hard to really say about thickness. Looking at the plan shape it does look like the FS has a greater area. On the water I would say they felt similar or that the w114 felt more floaty prob cause of where its volume is. Uphauling was equal, maybe with the FS having a slight edge. Getting on the foil the wide arse wizard wins for sure.

Hello,

for the low end side comparison did you try the I65 in C position VS I76 in B position?
done this test last summer on wizard 125 for the I84vs I76 and the I76 was better to start and keep flying easy to pump as less draggy, and easier to initiate the take off.
as soon as I can get back on the water I will do those tests and see If there is some advantage on the smaller wings