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Windfoiling on Klamath Lake, Oregon

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Created by MagicRide > 9 months ago, 21 Apr 2020
MagicRide
687 posts
21 Apr 2020 1:53PM
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Had a nice little evening session. Wind was 8-12 mph, on a 6.8 sail. I crashed at the end, and I don't know why? Is my foot work any better? I moved the mast base all the way back, as that seemed to help balance things better. I think my feet need to be closer together.

segler
WA, 1250 posts
21 Apr 2020 8:59PM
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Hey Magic, looks like yer hooked. Good job. It is amazing how the i84 makes for drama-free progression.

If you ever want to go north, come on east to the far eastern gorge. I'll show you the windfoiling sights (or sites). But I gotta get home from Florida first. No big rush there. Hunkering down in Florida for the covid19 is not bad duty. Unlike OR and WA, we can fish here. Fortunately, windsurfing/foiling/kiting is considered "exercise" even in OR and WA.

CoreAS
704 posts
21 Apr 2020 10:01PM
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Nice flight time Magic, looking great.
You're ready for the front footstraps! Think because the i84 creates an fairly upright foiling position combined with no strap, any over foil it won't take much to get pulled forward and off balance.
a 6.8 is quite a big rig and having a smaller sail you'll be able to sheet in harder and lean back a bit more.

thedoor
1647 posts
21 Apr 2020 11:28PM
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Nice work. Too me the crash looked to be related to excessive outer rail pressure causing the board to round up into the wind.

Maybe you started to feel OP'd, which caused you to put more weight on your front foot. As you get better, you will use less sail and learn to pump (foil and sail) to get onto the foil, then you will feel less overpowered. Overall, looks pretty good.

Definitely add the front strap. Your front foot looks too forward to me, so you may need to move the front mast track forwards a bit if you move your stance back.

CYVRWoody
133 posts
22 Apr 2020 1:33AM
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Thanks for the post. That upwind wheelie happens to me too.
Feel the board ROLL upwind; action move front foot inboard, front foot is lifted to move to new position inboard. @1:46.

Consequence of lifting front foot ; all the weight shifts to the backfoot (a wheelie move). You back foot is on the windward side so the board will ROLL windward. Weight on backfoot will cause foil to PITCH up; there is no front foot pressure. By lifting the front foot off the board to correct a windward ROLL the effect is to increase ROLL and PITCH. Easy Corrective action: Don't foil stay at home.

Better Corrective Action. Leave the front foot where it is. Bend both knees (lower center of mass) move RIG and BODY leeward and forward. Push with both hands. Consequence: Center of Mass is moved inboard without distributing front/back foot equilibrium. Using front foot straps will help tremendously when you're carrying the board on land; and yeah; it also helps with your foiling technique.








MagicRide
687 posts
22 Apr 2020 3:42AM
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Thanks guys! Yes, I do feel like I'm using sail power to stay up on foil rather that pumping sail and board to stay up. More wind today, so I'll keep practicing.

powersloshin
NSW, 1451 posts
22 Apr 2020 6:59AM
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maybe try and point the front foot more forward than sideways?

sl55
121 posts
22 Apr 2020 6:38AM
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Your feet are way forward of the foot straps positions on the board, and your weight is more on the back foot (back leg bent). It is OK for beginner stage because it is more like windsurfing stance. However, you should try to place your feet a bit more back, so that you have to put more weight on the front foot. I would also keep my back foot closer to the center line. Do not rush with foot straps. Good job keeping the board flying!

MagicRide
687 posts
22 Apr 2020 12:46PM
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Yeah, I'm not ready for footstraps. I can see my foot getting stuck when I fall off. I'm getting more and more comfortable flying strapless. I need to move my forward foot back more and my back foot forward more to get the right stance.

It was pretty windy today and took my slapper board out. Can't believe how poorly I rode that board for the first hour. It was so tippy I failed most fast tacks for the first hour, but gybed ok. Funny how you can forget how to sail your own board. I'm so used to the way the foil board handles, I was totally thrown off when I went on my slapper board. It's amazing how much more wind the slapper board needs to plane. I had fun on the slapper today, but I love the foil too. Don't know which one I enjoy more, because they are both so different.

thedoor
1647 posts
22 Apr 2020 1:16PM
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Just make the front strap super big. Mine remain very loose.

MagicRide
687 posts
28 Apr 2020 12:40PM
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Had a great session today! I'm learning how to steer when flying. Super sensitive and amazing how little weight adjustments makes it steer so well.

Also noticed, the windier it gets, the more forward I'm leaning. I'm finding when it's windier around 11-13 mph my 6.8 feels pretty good and my flight feels more steady and locked in. When I hit lulls, I am now bearing off and surfing the wind chop to keep me in flight until a gust hits. This is getting fun!! Only fell off once today during my 1.5 hour session.

MagicRide
687 posts
2 May 2020 10:48PM
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An update from yesterday's session! Very gusty, up and down winds. This is the first time I have been able to keep on foil through lulls of 6-7 mph with not really any pumping. The board just feels like it's floating in flight now versus before I had to force the board to stay in flight. Huge difference now. Less energy is being used on my end now. Things are coming together and becoming more natural. I'm using the harness hook as a pivoting point to lean forwards and backwards to adjust flight hight as well as to take the load of the arms. Can't wait for the next session.

MagicRide
687 posts
8 May 2020 4:01AM
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Yesterday was my best session yet! Fully powered on the 5.2, wind was 12-17 mph. I seem to be most balanced placing my back foot all the way back and I only adjust my front foot for control and flight hight along with leaning forwards and backwards. My front heal is further back now than in the video. The heal is on the white part of the padded deck. Not the normal way to foil, but I feel more balanced now, less sore and using a little more front foot pressure.

I also seem to be most balanced on a broad, beam and close reach so far. Close hauled, is where I seem to be less balanced. Board seems to get a little wobbly at times when I point close hauled. Any thoughts? Also, I've noticed my SS Dialer 130L doesn't want to bank to windward on foil, it seems to want to just foil flat n level. Is that because It's a free ride foil and not a race foil?

MagicRide
687 posts
8 May 2020 7:20AM
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I have also learned to pump the foil though lulls. That is a fun skill! Learned that yesterday.

Paducah
1906 posts
8 May 2020 7:09PM
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We enjoy your updates. Have a friend who's started wingfoiling (from a SUP background, not a windsurfer). While he realizes that leashes are necessary for winging, he hates his with a passion - always tangling up underfoot. You wouldn't want to go down that road. Glad things are working better for you.

Can't comment on the windward lean - it's not super necessary for a freeride board. Do try to keep your back foot as close to the rail as you can, it'll help you sheet in enough to go upwind. The apparent wind will be way forward so the foot of the sail has to be mid-deck and you need to be powered (of course).

MagicRide
687 posts
9 May 2020 1:00AM
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Paducah said..
We enjoy your updates. Have a friend who's started wingfoiling (from a SUP background, not a windsurfer). While he realizes that leashes are necessary for winging, he hates his with a passion - always tangling up underfoot. You wouldn't want to go down that road. Glad things are working better for you.

Can't comment on the windward lean - it's not super necessary for a freeride board. Do try to keep your back foot as close to the rail as you can, it'll help you sheet in enough to go upwind. The apparent wind will be way forward so the foot of the sail has to be mid-deck and you need to be powered (of course).


I will try moving my back foot to the rail when going up wind. Haven't had an issue with the board drifting away again. Won't use a leash.

Grantmac
1481 posts
9 May 2020 1:21AM
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You will have much better control with a strap, I prefer mine tight enough just for the toes. This us especially true on a narrower board with bigger sails going upwind.

MagicRide
687 posts
9 May 2020 10:48PM
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Grantmac said..
You will have much better control with a strap, I prefer mine tight enough just for the toes. This us especially true on a narrower board with bigger sails going upwind.



I know my control would improve a lot with front straps, but I'm too worried when my board goes down and if my foot just so happens to get stuck in the strap, I'm doomed for serious ankle injury. I don't want to take that chance. It may not happen to me, but it does happen, and if I can prevent an ankle injury by not using footstraps, I'll gladly do it and sacrifice some performance.

I'm feeling pretty good on foil now. My buddy was out kiting with me the other day, and he said to me, that looks freakin amazing. He said, I look very stable in flight and the board isn't wobbling. I think with some more sessions under my belt, I will try some foiling gybes.

segler
WA, 1250 posts
10 May 2020 5:05AM
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I have crashed many times with feet in the straps. Since almost all foil crashes are forward, your feet roll right out of the straps with no fuss.

That said, either run the straps way loose and huge so that they only locate your feet without any clampdown, or run them tight enough to barely accommodate just your toes.

MagicRide
687 posts
10 May 2020 7:46AM
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segler said..
I have crashed many times with feet in the straps. Since almost all foil crashes are forward, your feet roll right out of the straps with no fuss.

That said, either run the straps way loose and huge so that they only locate your feet without any clampdown, or run them tight enough to barely accommodate just your toes.



I fall to windward and leeward of my board. Anything seems possible right now for ankle injury if I have front straps. The risk seems to out way the benefit at least in the learning stage. Maybe after a season of foiling is behind me, I will take a look at the half straps. Those seem safer.

Grantmac
1481 posts
10 May 2020 2:41PM
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The half straps will point load the bones in your feet if you fall forward.

Regular straps work great. I've fallen every way possible when foiling and never hurt my feet like I have wavesailing or even freeriding.

MagicRide
687 posts
10 May 2020 10:21PM
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Grantmac said..
The half straps will point load the bones in your feet if you fall forward.

Regular straps work great. I've fallen every way possible when foiling and never hurt my feet like I have wavesailing or even freeriding.





Here's what I see happening. I'm in flight foiling real nicely, front foot is in front strap. All of a sudden the board tilts to leeward on foil, then pops up higher due to the way I leaned when falling off, I get thrown to windward, my front foot is not releasing from strap as I fall head first in the water, board is still on foil, 2 seconds longer tweeking the heck out of my ankle. This exact situation happened to me when learning to foil, but luckily I wasn't using straps. I dismounted from the board with ease. Bottom line is, I love foiling strapless and I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for the peace of mind of safety and the freedom of foiling strapless. I appreciate your advice, but I want an absolute guarantee, my foot will not get stuck when my board falls one way and I fall the other way and foiling strapless seems to be the answer. Now like I was saying, when I feel extremely competent in my ability as a foiler, I may reconsider.

Grantmac
1481 posts
11 May 2020 3:14AM
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I had that happen with a 1m wide Formula board, foot is fine and it simply doesn't happen anymore because my technique improved.

Biggest reason you are having that happen is because you are pulling down on the lines instead of out which unweights your feet.

MagicRide
687 posts
11 May 2020 4:06AM
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Grantmac said..
I had that happen with a 1m wide Formula board, foot is fine and it simply doesn't happen anymore because my technique improved.

Biggest reason you are having that happen is because you are pulling down on the lines instead of out which unweights your feet.


When you say, pulling down on the lines instead of out. I'm assuming you mean harness lines. I seem to pull down on the harness lines because my stance is more over the board instead of leaning out like in traditional windsurfing. Everytime I try leaning out, nothing feels right. I'm reading that is because SS foils are gearing the rider to sail over the board, thus pulling the lines downward. Seems like race foils allow the rider to lean out over the board thus pulling the lines outward from what I've read. Now is it possible to pull the lines outward while sailing over the board? If I leaned the sail more on the leeward side, maybe? Is that how I should be riding? I think my sail is more vertical when on foil, but should I move it to leeward? This is interesting stuff!

Grantmac
1481 posts
11 May 2020 5:14AM
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Because your lines are short. I'm willing to bet your mast isn't as upright as you think it is.

MagicRide
687 posts
11 May 2020 5:57AM
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Grantmac said..
Because your lines are short. I'm willing to bet your mast isn't as upright as you think it is.



I see. Do you think I'm pointing my mast more windward or leeward? It looks pretty straight in the video, maybe a little raked back. I will have to pay attention to that next time.

Grantmac
1481 posts
11 May 2020 7:11AM
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I'd have to see a video of you sheeted in. Trying heading further upwind and sheet in as you head up to maintain pressure in the sail. If you pressure down on the lines the board will try to roll to leeward which you can counter with having your feet further out and heels down.


For mast angle I'm not referring to mast rake front and back but pulling the mast overtop of yourself. With longer lines you can get outboard without doing that.

I've attached a picture of me heading upwind on a relatively narrow board (74cm) with a fairly large sail (7.2m) using a slingshot foil. I think the lines are ~30cm.
Notice the board is banked slightly into wind, the sail is sheeted in and I'm well outboard.




MagicRide
687 posts
11 May 2020 7:42AM
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Grantmac said..
I'd have to see a video of you sheeted in. Trying heading further upwind and sheet in as you head up to maintain pressure in the sail. If you pressure down on the lines the board will try to roll to leeward which you can counter with having your feet further out and heels down.


For mast angle I'm not referring to mast rake front and back but pulling the mast overtop of yourself. With longer lines you can get outboard without doing that.

I've attached a picture of me heading upwind on a relatively narrow board (74cm) with a fairly large sail (7.2m) using a slingshot foil. I think the lines are ~30cm.
Notice the board is banked slightly into wind, the sail is sheeted in and I'm well outboard.





Good to know, and more things to try. Nice picture! Wind is forecasted to blow from gusty south 20-30 tomorrow, and all I have is a 5.2. Not sure I want to attempt in that kind of wind??

Ian K
WA, 3983 posts
11 May 2020 8:14AM
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MagicRide said..

Grantmac said..
The half straps will point load the bones in your feet if you fall forward.

Regular straps work great. I've fallen every way possible when foiling and never hurt my feet like I have wavesailing or even freeriding.






Here's what I see happening. I'm in flight foiling real nicely, front foot is in front strap. All of a sudden the board tilts to leeward on foil, then pops up higher due to the way I leaned when falling off, I get thrown to windward, my front foot is not releasing from strap as I fall head first in the water, board is still on foil, 2 seconds longer tweeking the heck out of my ankle. This exact situation happened to me when learning to foil, but luckily I wasn't using straps. I dismounted from the board with ease. Bottom line is, I love foiling strapless and I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for the peace of mind of safety and the freedom of foiling strapless. I appreciate your advice, but I want an absolute guarantee, my foot will not get stuck when my board falls one way and I fall the other way and foiling strapless seems to be the answer. Now like I was saying, when I feel extremely competent in my ability as a foiler, I may reconsider.


Yes done that. Feels a little stretchy on the top of the foot. But I'm using an old slalom board where the straps are outboard so your foot wraps around the rail. Your ankles are then starting the leeward roll over with an upward flex. Quite a few more degrees to play with vs inboard straps on a flat deck. I've always gone for tightish footstraps so your toes are only just clear the inside edge of the straps.

Grantmac
1481 posts
11 May 2020 10:35AM
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20-30 on a lake is freestyle/B&J time, I don't foil much past 20 unless it's super gusty or offshore.

I'm with IanK: my straps for foiling are just tall enough to hook my toes in. They are for leverage not to keep you attached.

Totally opposite to my wave/FS strap setups.

MagicRide
687 posts
11 May 2020 1:25PM
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That's a thought, just to put my toes into the front strap to help drive the board. I might try that idea soon. Not enough extremidy inserted to get stuck. Toes would naturally release if I fall off the board.

Thanks guys!!



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"Windfoiling on Klamath Lake, Oregon" started by MagicRide