I know most of you hate them but advice from those that do use them please?
I find the sail wooden with no feel .[}:)] I was sailing in 10 -15kts with a 6.2m so didnt really get powered up till 15kts.Once powered up there was a bit more feel but when Im not how do I know if I have the sail at the best alignment & I'm not oversheeting? Going to windward & close reaching mainly.I just kept letting it off & changing position & pulling it back on..My non cammed sails give good feedback.I think I needed more downhaul too as I had some photos taken & the luff was wrinkled.( I had put less on than normal -Im still getting used to setting it up.)

My cammed sail is my biggest and therefore a bit more clumsy but trimming the sail is the same as the others. I don't even think about it.
Try varying your downhaul.

observations of a semi-noob;

I mostly sail in the 6.0-7.0 range on flat-water. My fave sail from about six years ago was a cammed v8; I sailed it until the panels blew; since I've dabbled with rotational foils from north and gaastra. despite persisting I found myself ultimately dissapointed, I gave in and got myself another v8 last season.

the major thing I find with cams is the leading edge of the luff is maintained regardless of the wind strength, so in lighter winds, the sail still holds a strong and efficient entry to the foil promoting early acceleration. with rotational foils, they need wind to form the shape, so their lower end range can be less than cammed. (dons flame suit )

but I should also say that clever design in the shape seems to negate this, the Naish Boxer from observation is a very powerfull cam-less sail.

the main reason i went back to cams was the conditions i was sailing in; generally marginal conditions where acceleration to get onto the plane was king.

but mostly I sail cams just like I sailed no-cams. no denying they are heavier, noticable sub-planing, waterstarting and in transistions. but under-power they are fine. i think you're right about tuning; more downhaul - your luff should be drum tight - which hopefully will make the sail more responsive. let us know what you find.

sboardcrazy said...
Im all excited about the idea of sticking telltales on so i can get an idea whats happening in sub planing conditions.Just not sure exactly where to put them in relation to the luff & whether theyd work on a sailboard sail..Ill put more downhaul on too although I only have another few cms of extension to play with.

Since you seem pretty set on trying them, just put them everywhere... it aint gonna hurt.

A lot of sailing craft use a piece of wool, about 4 inches long. I'd suggest that wool probably isn't a good choice -> you could grab an old cassette tape, using the 'tape' from it.

Trousers said...

observations of a semi-noob;

I mostly sail in the 6.0-7.0 range on flat-water. My fave sail from about six years ago was a cammed v8; I sailed it until the panels blew; since I've dabbled with rotational foils from north and gaastra. despite persisting I found myself ultimately dissapointed, I gave in and got myself another v8 last season.

the major thing I find with cams is the leading edge of the luff is maintained regardless of the wind strength, so in lighter winds, the sail still holds a strong and efficient entry to the foil promoting early acceleration. with rotational foils, they need wind to form the shape, so their lower end range can be less than cammed. (dons flame suit )

but I should also say that clever design in the shape seems to negate this, the Naish Boxer from observation is a very powerfull cam-less sail.

the main reason i went back to cams was the conditions i was sailing in; generally marginal conditions where acceleration to get onto the plane was king.

but mostly I sail cams just like I sailed no-cams. no denying they are heavier, noticable sub-planing, waterstarting and in transistions. but under-power they are fine. i think you're right about tuning; more downhaul - your luff should be drum tight - which hopefully will make the sail more responsive. let us know what you find.

Ive been out since with more downhaul ( the most I can get) & it does go better.I worked out what the rigging problem is but I wont be able to fix it properly until I can afford to get a 460 mast.[}:)]
The bottom cam sits below the top of the mast extension so it is on the actual extension.The rigging problem being that it has to go down the mast & then somehow out over the bulge at the top of the mast extension and onto the extension.This wouldnt be too bad except that it neeeds max downhaul to get low enough to go over the knobby bit .As you pull on the last bit of downhaul the cam gets stuck above the knob & comes off.Access to this cam is crap. Others have zips so you can get your hand in but this one you have to feed your hand up under the very tight luff from the bottom & feel around to try & get it back on.Which is almost impossible once the luff is tight enough to get it where you need it.Ive let the batten off a bit but I cant outhaul it anymore as the clew is already on the boomend at min outhaul.
I had help yesterday and he guided the cam on as I finished downhauling but even then he couldnt get the batten tight enough after.They are the old style where you have the end of the strap going through a slot in the batten & your supposed to push it in with the palm of your hand & then a tab + velcro hold it in.I cant push hard enough with my hand & it hurts. I wonder if a flat piece of wood across my palm would help?

mathew said...

You probably shouldn't try to use the sail with the cam against the mast-extension... it probably wont hurt it, but I personally wouldn't trust it.

I would have thought the mast extension was more durable than the fibreglass mast..?

sboardcrazy said...
I would have thought the mast extension was more durable than the fibreglass mast..?

Have you seen an aluminium mast lately?


fibreglass / carbon (aka fibre materials) are good at handling loads which cause the fibres to try to stretch, eg boards, masts, etc

aluminium (metals) are good at handling compressive loads, eg mast bases.

I'm no expert but I think that making the cam push onto the mast-base, would put some "side load" onto the mast base, causing the outside-wall of the base to try to stretch more, thereby encouraging the mast base to fold at that point (just like aluminium masts used to do).

mathew said...

sboardcrazy said...
I would have thought the mast extension was more durable than the fibreglass mast..?

Have you seen an aluminium mast lately?


fibreglass / carbon (aka fibre materials) are good at handling loads which cause the fibres to try to stretch, eg boards, masts, etc

aluminium (metals) are good at handling compressive loads, eg mast bases.

I'm no expert but I think that making the cam push onto the mast-base, would put some "side load" onto the mast base, causing the outside-wall of the base to try to stretch more, thereby encouraging the mast base to fold at that point (just like aluminium masts used to do).

Not with the amount of batten tension I can get..Maybe a problem if I use Windextasy's tips..

Trousers said...

i suspect this won't work from what you've described, but my cammed sail is rigged like this;

that technique really only works with "wide-luff" sails -> AFAICT, this is an older model sail (as given by the old-style batten tensioner), which in all likelyhood wont have a wide-luff.