An F2 battleship

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oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
16 Jul 2006 12:10am
Could not bear to see an ancient F2 Lightning longboard disappear into the tip so I brought it home with the vague idea of stashing it handy to Inverloch and getting some sort of sailing when the wind is weak and the tide is running just as fast. Weighs 20 kg, retracting centreboard, 3 position mast track, footstrap positions all over it.
Questions: How would it react to a modern sail?
What could be the purpose of a channel on top of the board running from the mast slot to the bow?
Think I might need a trolly for this one...
Jethrow
Jethrow
NSW
1282 posts
NSW, 1282 posts
16 Jul 2006 7:57am
I remember am old board of mine (about 20 years ago) that had a groove about 8mm wide that was to take a bungy or rope that would attach from the mast base to the bow to stop you loosing the rig if they seperated. Does this sound right?
Seaworthy
Seaworthy
WA
39 posts
WA, 39 posts
16 Jul 2006 6:11am
Regards sail, they should go pretty well with a modern sail. Cambered sails especially, 6.5 to 8.5 would be the sweet spot for me (about 70 kgs) in lighter Sydney winds.

Regards attaching the rig to the board, its probably best to use a modern mast base, with a large metal (usually brass)plate in the mast track. This is still adjustable back and forth, but not while on the fly. This will ensure that the rig and board don't become seperated - the reason that safety leash groove.
hobie14t
hobie14t
QLD
259 posts
QLD, 259 posts
16 Jul 2006 11:16am
I used to use an old Tyronsea 380 longboard (centre board and long mast track) with a newish Neil Pryde V8 (6.5mtr) sail, it was a rockship in about 15 knots. Granted its not very maneuvarable but in a straight line run it was a dam good ride. I have since gone to a short board and far more modern sails. That said I will never go back, but it was good fun at the time and also easy to learn & practice on. (PS the board was about 15kgs maybe more, in fact possibly close to 20 I dont really know for sure)
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
16 Jul 2006 7:52pm
Modern sails aren't as good on Raceboards as they are on shortboards, so don't expect the longboard to achieve all its potential. It won't be disastrous though.

I'd actually try to make sure the mast track works. If it's a mid '80s Lightning it has very flat rocker. I sailed one in the production worlds when they were new and unless you were 80kg or so, you had a hard time getting the nose up high enough to really get it reaching fast. It would be even harder without the mast track right back for the planing reaches, and they don't go upwind as well unless it's forward.

Jethrow is dead right about the channel on the nose. It was a German government requirement at the time.
Great board for their day in marginal conditions though; the first production concave board, I think. I'd like to find a light one and see how it goes compared to a new Raceboard. A good Raceboard is surprisingly fast compared to a slalom board.
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
17 Jul 2006 2:53am
Hmm.. I am inspired, although no doubt a light competition version without rail detuning would be the real jewel.
Looks just like a new one (without the logos) after cleaning it up.
Mounted a Bic uni in the existing mast base so the cunning slider system still works, got a 28 cm fin held in place with Builders Bog.
Impossible to imagine it in the air, but if it points high it will be interesting.
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
19 Jul 2006 4:40am
Launched into 5 knots. Slowly accelerates to a good speed across the wind until one can hardly feel the wind in the sail. Nice.
Comes around OK with a strong flare gybe.
But tacks are a disaster! The fin locks it into a straight course and can feel a hernia coming trying to force it around. Then the current grabs the fin and stuffs up the process properly. Actually it is not too bad with NO FIN AT ALL! Given that I will be sailing the GO as soon as thw wind comes up to reliable planing, am I missing anything?
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
19 Jul 2006 11:44am
Tacking is the achille's heel of raceboards. They do tend to move thrugh a wider, slower arc. It can also be worth moving your body onto the new tack earlier and over-sheeting the sail to head the nose away, rather than staying on the new tack too long. Also make sure the rig is raked back all the way, and perhaps over-sheet so the foot of the sail is on the windward (old tack) side when you get close to head to wind.

The great thing about raceboards is their versatility; you can sail in almost anything with a medium-size sail and know that if it drops out you've got a big enough board, if it gets windy you've got a small enough sail.....the tacking is the price you pay.

I think this is one of the times when a rig desigend for Gos or slalom suffers; the drive is normally further forward so when you rake the rig back, there is less leverage to drive the board up into the tack, and the flatter more open shape means there's less low-speed power to accelerate again.
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
22 Jul 2006 2:04am
Thanks Chris, got tacks coming around nicely by stepping early and then leaning on the sail, but mainly by converting the foreign wave fin to 14 cm (modification by Mr A. Grinder). Can now even push the fin until it lets go if I want. When would you use just a little bit of centreboard?
Excellent low wind fun because no longer stuck in the out and back yoyo. Might even save up for a Serenity (4 meters long!) when they come out.
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
28 Jul 2006 8:51pm
Hmm..Seems that the partial centerboard deployment is not an efficent sailing mode, rather just the result of a 2 step deployment of same.
The non-planing Starboard Serenity will have no centreboard, just a 70 cm fin and a 40 cm one for shallow sites. The dam thing is 4.6 meters long, have to modify the roof rack to stopit blowing sideways as the B doubles go past.
Mr Rasmussen has been sailing it for a year and is getting a railed 12 knots from a 4 knot breeze. Wonder what size sail that involves?
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
28 Jul 2006 10:08pm
I find the centreboard is normally either up, or within 20 degrees of all the way down - a bit of rake helps keep everything under control when you're racing in big breeze (which is when I really love the big boards)

It's always down for me upwind (unless I'm on the Exocet Kona which seems to really go well upwind with the board up) and up downwind unless it's light and I'm pumping. or reaching when the centreboard (slightly raked) helps pop you onto the plane in marginal conditions. The F2 had a small centreboard compared to other boards (I think it was small even on our team ones but they were stiffer) which is a flaw in a board that was very good in its day.

I may have an old Lightning fin...I think I saw it the other day. Certainly they don't have to be too big, the lateral resistance comes from the centreboard.

I'm glad you're having fun.

I'm not sure about the Serenity. I love my round-bottomed D2s which are similar in concept but get up and boogie OK in a breeze. The Serenity seems like it will be very much a one-condition straight-line machine.

Personally I like the Mistral IMCO and my Windsurfer One Design, and the Exocet Kona has a lot going for it.

oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
3 Aug 2006 10:02pm
Thanks for the fin offer, but I have done my dash by bogging my stray fin into the finbox. So I screw in a finbox instead of a fin.
Seems a very well behaved board, feeling shorter all the time.

mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
4 Aug 2006 1:07pm
quote:
Originally posted by oldie

Hmm..Seems that the partial centerboard deployment is not an efficent sailing mode, rather just the result of a 2 step deployment of same.
The non-planing Starboard Serenity will have no centreboard, just a 70 cm fin and a 40 cm one for shallow sites. The dam thing is 4.6 meters long, have to modify the roof rack to stopit blowing sideways as the B doubles go past.
Mr Rasmussen has been sailing it for a year and is getting a railed 12 knots from a 4 knot breeze. Wonder what size sail that involves?



Svein said somewhere that it was 8m'ish I think and that anything larger than 9m is a hinderance in light winds suitable for the serenity... or something along those lines.
jonesmb
jonesmb
QLD
77 posts
QLD, 77 posts
4 Aug 2006 1:15pm
I've started playing around on an old AHD raceboard (eliminator). I find it odd when planning on a reach, basically in planing winds its most comfortable pointing or on a broad reach. On a reach I feel like I have a massive amount of leeway. I've tried a big 58 cm fin (I've installed a tuttle box) but tacking became almost impossible now I've gone back to a 38cm, using 8.5m sail. So after years reaching on short boards I'm finding that stance not quite right, it might be because when in the back straps I'm miles away from the mast foot.

Malcolm
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
14 Dec 2006 7:08am
Think I am in love with the monster after some windy planing, even if the boom ends up near my knees when I move right back on the board.
Can go upwind as good as the kites and run across the shallows utilising the built in autoretract feature of the centerboard.
But the slippery deck is damaging me now and then, even with booties on.
Is there a better solution than salt on some two-pot stuff for fixing up the deck?
Crash Landing
Crash Landing
NSW
1173 posts
NSW, 1173 posts
14 Dec 2006 10:27am
Back to the channel from mast track to mastfoot - i think it was a German law, the sail had to have a leash...
Crash Landing
Crash Landing
NSW
1173 posts
NSW, 1173 posts
14 Dec 2006 10:27am
Back to the channel from mast track to mastfoot - i think it was a German law, the sail had to have a leash...
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
15 Dec 2006 7:39pm
Might be possible to carry a fishing rod there for the times that they are jumping all around me.
I will roughen the deck with some 60 grade sandpaper, will probably need that to make the paint stick and might be all I need anyway.
AusMoz
AusMoz
QLD
1514 posts
QLD, 1514 posts
15 Dec 2006 6:45pm
I have a f2 lightning from 1991 or 92, have been using an RS3 7.5 m on it. goes well except for the rooster tail from water coming through the centreboard !!! but only drag it out when need a different experience !!!!
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
15 Dec 2006 9:38pm
quote:
goes well except for the rooster tail from water coming through the centreboard !!!


Hundred mile an hour tape solves all...
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
16 Dec 2006 7:09am
Flare gybes save the day. Sink the tail until feels like a Titanic scenario and around she comes.
Talking about tape, what is the next cheap sail repair solution after packaging tape? I have damaged all my sails, including my beautiful 600 dollar one, all needing frequent tape reapplication and often trailing tatty streamers.
Expensive lessons- don't allow the sail to press on your head when carrying it around, don't put a knee forward when crashing, don't try extra downhaul to keep an old sail stable, don't think that because a cheap sail doesn't crackle that it won't crack.
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