Board delaminating

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Old Salty
Old Salty
VIC
1271 posts
VIC, 1271 posts
31 Oct 2007 8:29pm
Just found out the bad news that my cart wheel last weekend whilst spectacular cause a crease in the nose, split the rail and delaminated my Mistral Explosion.
Board is repairable but the concern from the retail outlet was that around the repair area and another 20% of the board that is still good would be stiff and the rest would be soft from delamination.
My question is what problems am I likely to incur sailing the repaired board?
Will I sink? HA HA
Go slower?
Break in half?
Break/split easier in heavy conditions?
Put my foot through the board?
What is the problem with delamination?
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
31 Oct 2007 8:19pm
Mistral explosion? Aptly named, methinks

Check out this site:
boardlady.com/

for the lowdown on how serious the various problems are.

Delamination needs to be fixed, pronto, or you will end up with a much bigger area to fix later on. The boardlady site explains this better than I can, but a quick summary is that we use a sandwich of stuff that's good in tension (fibreglass) on the outside, with stuff that's good in compression (divinycell) on the inside. This makes our boards incredibly stiff, but it only works if the glass is bonded well to the divinycell. If not, then you lose the benefit of a sandwich and will quickly ruin the board.

This sounds like either a long and arduous home fix or new board time to me, I think that you'd be paying more than the board is worth for a commercial repair. But then again if you love your mistral and want to see it back on the water, then I can dig it
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
31 Oct 2007 10:04pm
If it's fixed properly there shouldn't be much variation in stiffness, in other words all delamned stuff has to be removed. The extent of that isn't always evident until you pull it apart.
Think nebs has it slightly wrong, it's not usually glass to d'cell that delaminates, but further in, it's normally the interior soft stryo foam core that gives way. If the boards repaired and leaves an area of this damaged foam untreated, there's a danger that any air in there will compress during use and increase the area of damage.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
31 Oct 2007 10:36pm
Arrr, listen to Decrepit, he's the guru of board making/fixing
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
31 Oct 2007 10:49pm
I bow to the board lady anyday, Eva's the master!!!!
MavericK040
MavericK040
WA
583 posts
WA, 583 posts
31 Oct 2007 11:34pm
AAAH ! my board has the dreaded and lethal softdeck! nooo , what to do?
its pretty bad in the middle of the straps its super soft .
it only cost me 100 should i try and fix it?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
31 Oct 2007 11:49pm
What's it's construction, any idea?? If it's an old polyester-urethane, there's not much danger of it spreading much, but it will slowly get worse, but not too hard to fix.
If it's sandwich construction, harder to fix, but more important to do it, although how far does the soft area extend?
If it's only between the straps and very soft, it's probably not going to extend any further, just get softer, until the glass cracks and it starts letting in water.
MavericK040
MavericK040
WA
583 posts
WA, 583 posts
31 Oct 2007 11:52pm
its plastic well on the outside anyway , the soft area is hmm about 300mm square?
its an F2 wave , i think there is a crack at the end of the mast track , is there a way i can seal that up?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
1 Nov 2007 12:04am
Some plastic boards had a soft are built into the footstrap zone, but sounds like it's not that, unless they're all the same.

Plastic isn't easy to fix, nothing bonds that well. you could try giving it a good sand then using 24hr areldite with a bit of glass cloth, it may hold, may not.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
1 Nov 2007 1:06am
not wanting to appear like in anyway negative at all.........but

soft deck

check use by date (it's inside the finbox) sometimes hard to read!

usually expired.
MavericK040
MavericK040
WA
583 posts
WA, 583 posts
1 Nov 2007 12:10am
hmm

its past its useby date still tastes ok tho

use it till it dies i think.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
1 Nov 2007 1:13am
onya mav!
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23688 posts
WA, 23688 posts
2 Nov 2007 3:35pm
Old Salty: who said it had delam? I gather you mean it is up at the nose, not a seperate problem?
A good hit to the nose will cause a lot of damage but not usually delamination as such... the layers of foam and glass may appear to be separated when you look 'end on' at a snapped off piece but it is not really delam. If only about 1" - 6" of the board is stuffed it will be an easy repair..... long time but easy and about $50 to do yourself.

How big, where, pics?
Old Salty
Old Salty
VIC
1271 posts
VIC, 1271 posts
3 Nov 2007 2:19pm
HEY Mark
Retail outlet said the board was delam. I know they would have a vested interest in selling me a new board - not that I have the money. I think the delam has been happening from an earlier crack. You need to push hard on the deck to get movement and I have noticed a small drip come from the mast track when I dry the board out upside down.
What I would really like to know is with delam is the board weaker and likely to flex/crack easier?

Mark _australia said...

Old Salty: who said it had delam? I gather you mean it is up at the nose, not a seperate problem?
A good hit to the nose will cause a lot of damage but not usually delamination as such... the layers of foam and glass may appear to be separated when you look 'end on' at a snapped off piece but it is not really delam. If only about 1" - 6" of the board is stuffed it will be an easy repair..... long time but easy and about $50 to do yourself.

How big, where, pics?


P.C_simpson
P.C_simpson
WA
1492 posts
WA, 1492 posts
3 Nov 2007 12:21pm
i'd call it more like smashed foam, not delam...
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23688 posts
WA, 23688 posts
3 Nov 2007 8:57pm
Salty what I'm trying to get at: you smashed the nose. Got that. But is the delam elsewhere (ie the shop told you the nose is not worth fixing due to delam elsewhere?)

Delam in the first foot or so of nose is nothing to worry about and is easy fixed.

Water coming out next to mast track is not delam it is the box coming away from it's PVC (divinycell) cassette is is inserted into. Again, not hard to fix.

You have 3 seperate problems I'm guessing ....... all easily fixed
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
4 Nov 2007 12:38am
Old Salty said...

HEY Mark
Retail outlet said the board was delam. I know they would have a vested interest in selling me a new board - not that I have the money. I think the delam has been happening from an earlier crack. You need to push hard on the deck to get movement and I have noticed a small drip come from the mast track when I dry the board out upside down.
What I would really like to know is with delam is the board weaker and likely to flex/crack easier?



I agree with Mark, delam isn't normally caused by "a crack" it's normally due to constant pounding weakening the internal foam, then at some stage during a compression cycle, the outer skin springs back faster than the foam underneath. You then get movement between the 2, further degrading the foam. When you open the bung, air fills the gap, close the bung and go sailing again, and the air compresses, spreading the delam, and so on until the whole thing just falls apart.
So are you saying the area around the foot straps or mast track is soft? That's the main indicator of delam.
Old Salty
Old Salty
VIC
1271 posts
VIC, 1271 posts
4 Nov 2007 11:57am
Hey guys
Thanks for the input
The board is NOT soft around the foot straps and fin box.
The board is soft from in front of the front foot straps through to the nose where it has over flexed.
When I say soft you need to push hard to notice movement.
The board is of foam sandwich construction
I was considering injecting the board with material to stop delam. What is the best material to use and what do I use to cover the holes left in the skin
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
4 Nov 2007 10:16pm
Old Salty said...

<<<<
The board is soft from in front of the front foot straps through to the nose where it has over flexed.
When I say soft you need to push hard to notice movement.
The board is of foam sandwich construction
I was considering injecting the board with material to stop delam. What is the best material to use and what do I use to cover the holes left in the skin


The deck sandwich can be quite stiff due to the convex shape, so it will take some effort to push it down.

The only material I know of is epoxy resin, styro foam is dissolved by so many other things, you need to do a test first before you try.
But remember, for it to work, you have to get complete coverage, any air gap in there is just going to grow with use.
Sounds like a hard ask to me!!!!

I've fixed a mate's board with a delamned bottom, by removing the bottom and sticking it back down, it's lasted over a year so far, but I was very dubious about doing it. If it had been my board it would have gone in the bin.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
5 Nov 2007 12:20am
remember, 1L petrol + your soft deck board= global warming

use a chainsaw
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