Cams, less downhaul and stuff...

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
nobody
nobody
NSW
437 posts
NSW, 437 posts
7 Mar 2008 2:56am
OK, I wanted to post a reply onto the following thread but I can't because it is too old (try to post):
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31654&SearchTerms=cambers

Anyway, I was going to ask about tuned sail depth for light winds by using less downhaul. I suspect a camberless sail might be better for this.

Gestalt said in the thread above...
i have also compared apples with apples. i always found the no cam sails felt faster off the mark, better to pump and more powerfull than cammed. but once the wind picked up a bit i just wanted the fully cammed race sail with better top end and the locked in feeling. i have also seen no cam race sails beat cammed sails around a formula course in light winds.


I have a 2 camber 7.5m sail. I was using too little downhaul (because of inexperience with modern sails) which gave it a deep shape and was relatively early planing for it's size. But one of the cams would pop off the mast, the mast and cam wear was accelerated and I broke both the battens which the cams were on. Now I'm using what I think is the measured right amount of downhaul, the sail feels gutless as it is too flat by comparison to before, but rotates better.

Now I'm on the hunt for a bigger sail like a 9+m and was considering getting a camberless so I could try running less downhaul on light wind days as before.
Do you think this is a reasonable idea or will I wear out the camberless sail too fast as well?
skenno
skenno
WA
17 posts
WA, 17 posts
7 Mar 2008 2:00am
I'm no expert but this is what I've found after months of unlearning my "bad" rigging habits that I got from years of sailing everything else... I'd be interested to see other schools of thought on this subject.

I use both types of sail and find that as soon as there is enough wind to pump up onto the plane, the recommended d/h setting works best for either type. I just use less outhaul if I want to increase sail draft. Having said that, broken battens & cams popping off the mast might have also been due to lack of outhaul tension, 'as well as/instead of' lack of d/h tension.

I doubt you'll wear out a no-cam sail by using less downhaul. Although if you were going to rig like this I'd make sure that the lower battens don't sit any further than half-way around the mast once the sail is rigged.

I found that when I was using no-cam sails they were only faster with less down-haul in non-planing conditions (eg riding longboards in light winds). I never bothered with cams in these conditions.






peter1meter
peter1meter
WA
7 posts
WA, 7 posts
7 Mar 2008 4:31am
The power of a sail does not come from the top part of a sail
So using less downhaul would not give you more power. It will only make the sail feel heavy.
As you downhaul a sail the mast is bending, but also in the lower part of the sail. As your mast is bending the battens will also start to get more profiled in the lower part, so you get the profile you want in a sail. The upper part of the sail is designed to let the sail breathe so when a gust hits the sail, the leech will open allowing for a faster airflow and more speed. Naturally also giving a better windrange.
If you want more power in your no-cam sail, then leave a lot of negative outhaul and give the lower battens some tesion. If theis is still not enough then go bigger.
sick_em_rex
sick_em_rex
NSW
1601 posts
NSW, 1601 posts
7 Mar 2008 10:44am
don't forget it is quite important now to properly match a mast to the sail. Your mast could have been the totally wrong specs for the sail you were rigging and so it put undue pressure on it.
I'm no expert but I have learnt a lot lately about this aspect and how important it is to the performance and shape of the sail. Maybe you could let us know the type of sail and mast you are using ???
mr love
mr love
VIC
2424 posts
VIC, 2424 posts
7 Mar 2008 10:55am
Nobody , There are some sails which are specifically designed for more low end power , some built for longboard racing . I know both Severne and Aerotech do one . They are cut with deep profiles and less twist . Great for low wind power but will top out alot earlier . Maybe worth considering if you are after power for light airs .
hardie
hardie
WA
4133 posts
WA, 4133 posts
7 Mar 2008 10:23am
My 3 Euro's worth (The exchange rate is better atm)

What do you want the sail to do? Sail in light winds, easy to rig??. Then bottom end is critical, top end is minimal anyway. In the top end range, The differences would be topping out at 27knots versus 28 to 29 knots. (I have a Gaastra GTX cammed and a Gaastra GTR uncammed, and that is the GPS difference in similar winds) Not critical IMO. Whereas planing in 10 to 13 knots wind minimum vesus 12 to 15 knots is critical, means the differences between planing/sailing and grovelling, critical IMO. (Though the difference in ealry planing b/n a cammed and non-cammed sail of same size is predominantly in the technique, the cammed sail will require technical pumping of the sail, with the use of larger amounts of physical energy needed, but planing threshold should be about identical) The GTR easier to pump and get planing, GTX requires more pumping effort, but get going in about same winds.

Re rigging, camless always easier to rig. When I'm in a hurry and wanna rig quick, I use the GTR camless, and when I want best performance and have time, I use the GTX cammed.

Just get a sail with proper mast that was designed to do that.
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply