Forums > Windsurfing General

Formally for van bed and shelving

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Created by sboardcrazy Saturday, 10 Aug 2019
sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Saturday , 10 Aug 2019 1:48PM
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We were planning to use 10mm plus marine ply and carpet over.
Saw some black formply which seemed stiffer and a nice finish. Would it be harder to work with ? Attach fittings , drill , glue carpet onto ?

Mark _australia
WA, 19318 posts
Saturday , 10 Aug 2019 11:51AM
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If it is well supported and not going to get proper wet, why not MDF?If you go to a large cabinetmakers and ask for "packing sheets" you will get 16 or 19mm MDF in 8x4ft for $10 each....... not the $60 plus you're going to pay....

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Saturday , 10 Aug 2019 2:56PM
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We're trying to minimise supports to maximise the packing space underneath.
Do you know anything about the stuff I mentioned?

BSN101
WA, 1660 posts
Saturday , 10 Aug 2019 1:08PM
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Formply is used when concreteing so it doesn't stick and does resist water. So yes it's strong. And yes it's expensive.
Thick ply will resist water better than chip board.
MDF will resist the least.
Pretty hard to glue Formply but screwing no probs.
Thick ply easier to glue & screw.
Both plys will give a great finish. routing edges will give that pro finish (1/4 round on edges). Varnish ply chip & mdf. Formply finish should be good as is.
Relly looking fwd to your build pix.

Ian K
NSW, 2893 posts
Saturday , 10 Aug 2019 3:22PM
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Mark _australia said..
If it is well supported and not going to get proper wet, why not MDF?If you go to a large cabinetmakers and ask for "packing sheets" you will get 16 or 19mm MDF in 8x4ft for $10 each....... not the $60 plus you're going to pay....



Motor vehicle manufacturers go to a lot of effort to save the odd gram here and there. If a new model comes out even 50 kg lighter due to incorporating some hi tech construction it's big news. 4 sq metres of 18 mm MDF weighs ~ 61 kg. 10mm marine ply would save 30kg. You'd make up the price difference in petrol saved in the long run. It might be worth going one better on weight saving and making the false floor out of carbon composite.

Or maybe plywood doors from bunnings. A good strength to weight ratio. Not that expensive. Maybe 3mm ply and some of the tricks moth builders use to make the decks strong enough - the whole hull weighs 16kg.
www.storerboatplans.com/boat-design/iss-a-22lb-8ft-plywood-ozracer-possible-moths-and-light-plywood-structures/


sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Saturday , 10 Aug 2019 4:39PM
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All care taken but over the life of the van it could get wet so MDF probably not the go.. I was hoping for no support underneath but the weight and price has made me agree to a middle support.
The idea is for 2 bed sized shelves..Got to work out the exact sizes but in an ideal world bottom about 40cms up to allow for storage of big plastic tubs. The next c 20cm higher ( sails and masts).
The top shelf will have some upright removable supports about 80cm in from the RHS.. Boards store on their edge on RHS where there is no door. Booms and assorted things to the left.
Hopefully there is enough room for me to sleep on the LHS of the uprights. That will be the way it is used most of the time as a windsurfing van.
To go car camping the upper layer is removed and we sleep on the full width lower shelf. Gives us more head room too..
At least that's the plan , or the idea I'd like. Things may morph as he builds..

MikeyS
VIC, 1439 posts
Sunday , 11 Aug 2019 7:56PM
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I've used 10mm ply with a 25x25mm aluminium subframe for shelving units in 4x4s in the past. www.bunnings.com.au/metal-mate-25-4-x-25-4-x-1-2mm-3m-aluminium-square-box-tube_p1079488
It's much lighter than 18mm ply or Formply.

peterowensbabs
NSW, 197 posts
Sunday , 11 Aug 2019 8:48PM
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sboardcrazy said..
All care taken but over the life of the van it could get wet so MDF probably not the go.. I was hoping for no support underneath but the weight and price has made me agree to a middle support.
The idea is for 2 bed sized shelves..Got to work out the exact sizes but in an ideal world bottom about 40cms up to allow for storage of big plastic tubs. The next c 20cm higher ( sails and masts).
The top shelf will have some upright removable supports about 80cm in from the RHS.. Boards store on their edge on RHS where there is no door. Booms and assorted things to the left.
Hopefully there is enough room for me to sleep on the LHS of the uprights. That will be the way it is used most of the time as a windsurfing van.
To go car camping the upper layer is removed and we sleep on the full width lower shelf. Gives us more head room too..
At least that's the plan , or the idea I'd like. Things may morph as he builds..


MDF and any water = soggy wheetbix. So no don't go there, never mind the mould that grows on it all too easily. In Theatre or film we build all of our "flats" using 4.5mm Luan ply, built over 2x1 frames (ok ok 19x 42 in the real numbers) at 600mm centres. Ply wood in tension (on frames) is exceptionally strong, Its super light cheap and easy to make, but you do need a bit of gear, ply stapler, drop saw to chop your stick at the correct length etc. If you want to avoid a frame by going all ply 7, 9, 10, 0r12 mm ply just won't hack it, it splits far too easily when nailing or worse screwing on the end grain, so you end up with 16/17mm ply. By purchasing CD grade you get one good face one rough one and a non waterproof glue bond (still fine for your use just not for full prolonged water immersion). You will need to seal what ever ply or timber you choose to use, just pick an outdoor rated paint or varnish and roller it on. If you have sized up the job and know roughly your design I can do you a cutting list and drawings to help you assemble it all and work out your quantities.

Boombuster
QLD, 504 posts
Monday , 12 Aug 2019 6:56AM
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i used this www.ccaboards.com.au/thermo-light-board-product-range.html stronger, stiffer, lighter than wood and won't accept water but its not cheap. I used 12mm x 1.5 x 3.6 sheets it was very easy to cut and drill but you need to cover up the dust can make you itch. Also you don't need to seal it, I covered it with grey felt on the walls and marine carpet on the floor and shelves.
I used a timber frame but turns out it creaks i hindsight I should have put some silicon in between the wood joints but after some 3p7 it's not too bad.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Monday , 12 Aug 2019 9:08AM
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I was going to ask you what you used. Any progressive pics?
We committed and bought most of the material yesterday. 2 x 12 marine ply for the shelve / bed. 3mm for the lining, to be covered in marine carpet and other side carpet underlay to dampen noise.
I know there are dedicated products for that but the last van had that combo and seemed quiet enough.
This one came with factory hardboard lining and flooring so there will be 2 layers. It may have been easier buying a bare one as you could see where to attach things easier..still I bought one off the floor.
Van as bought. ( cargo barrier added )




sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Monday , 12 Aug 2019 9:19AM
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That material sounds interesting Boombuster. What sort of weight per sheet ? Is it widely available?

mathew
VIC, 1748 posts
Tuesday , 13 Aug 2019 10:56AM
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Get some stuff from ebay and specifically here: www.carbuilders.com.au/

Just spent the last few weeks fitting out a 2019 Hiace as a camper - just like a house, your foundations are the key to a good fitout.

300W solar + 300 Ah LiFePO4 + 50L water.
Insulation is a must - you dont really need a vapour barrier, unless you want to camp above the snow line.

CarBuilders wont be "cheap", but also not too expensive (given the good results it achieves). *dont* use any fibreglass insulation - it is the wrong material for insulation for a lot of reasons. Use panel-deadener and some thick van-liner.

For cabinetry I use 6mm Marine Ply + some type of jointing material (such as 18mm pine) - cheap and easy to work with. A watered-down water based paint will seal the wood. Or you can go overboard and use marine-epoxy-paint.

Since you have wall-panels, you can just cover them in something nice/durable... anything will work, including plain old cotton-cloth with some spray glue.

Ian K
NSW, 2893 posts
Tuesday , 13 Aug 2019 11:45AM
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mathew said..


Just spent the last few weeks fitting out a 2019 Hiace as a camper - j


Downsizing! A sea breeze first!

You haven't reduced the fleet to one foil board and a handful of wings have you?

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Tuesday , 13 Aug 2019 12:01PM
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One thing I read was to make sure you use heat resistant glue .That way your carpet won't fall off as the summer heat hits..
Good website Mathew. Thanks for the link.

Shifu
QLD, 1208 posts
Tuesday , 13 Aug 2019 12:44PM
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10mm not thick enough for a bed. Use 17mm ply from bunning 60 dollars a sheet - can span a fair distance and be strong. Give it a couple of coats of polyurethane to protect it and it will last 5 years plus. If you are going to glue down carpet use contact cement.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Tuesday , 13 Aug 2019 1:38PM
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Would this glue withstand/ not fail in very high temperatures ( e.g- the heat inside a van parked in the sun in 45 degrees? )
www.bunnings.com.au/sika-500ml-contact-4600-au-adhesive_p1660980

olskool
QLD, 1442 posts
Tuesday , 13 Aug 2019 2:53PM
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Yes Sue the Sika is the go. Ive used it on many boat headliners. Sprayed directly or trowelled onto bare alloy. Either version. The sunny side you could cook an egg on. The glue holds up well.10years n no issues in tropical Qld heat.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Tuesday , 13 Aug 2019 3:17PM
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olskool said..
Yes Sue the Sika is the go. Ive used it on many boat headliners. Sprayed directly or trowelled onto bare alloy. Either version. The sunny side you could cook an egg on. The glue holds up well.10years n no issues in tropical Qld heat.


Thanks!

mathew
VIC, 1748 posts
Wednesday , 14 Aug 2019 9:19AM
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Shifu said..
10mm not thick enough for a bed. Use 17mm ply from bunning 60 dollars a sheet - can span a fair distance and be strong. Give it a couple of coats of polyurethane to protect it and it will last 5 years plus. If you are going to glue down carpet use contact cement.


17mm is not thick enough - it will sag over time - particularly if you camp in it for a few months. I used 25mm box-aluminium (go direct to an aluminium wholesaler, not say Bunnings) - with at least 3.5mm wall thickness for supporting bracing, spaced at 20cm apart.

mathew
VIC, 1748 posts
Wednesday , 14 Aug 2019 9:21AM
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Ian K said..
mathew said..


Just spent the last few weeks fitting out a 2019 Hiace as a camper - j


Downsizing! A sea breeze first!

You haven't reduced the fleet to one foil board and a handful of wings have you?


Nah... just building a camper for my mother. ... I am looking to expand, say via a trailer for the motorbike/ultralight.

fjdoug
ACT, 437 posts
Wednesday , 14 Aug 2019 12:14PM
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mathew said..

Ian K said..

mathew said..


Just spent the last few weeks fitting out a 2019 Hiace as a camper - j



Downsizing! A sea breeze first!

You haven't reduced the fleet to one foil board and a handful of wings have you?



Nah... just building a camper for my mother. ... I am looking to expand, say via a trailer for the motorbike/ultralight.


what sort of ultralight ?!

mathew
VIC, 1748 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 7:40AM
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fjdoug said..
mathew said..
... I am looking to expand, say via a trailer for the motorbike/ultralight.


what sort of ultralight ?!


Nothing specific at the moment, but something small and electric. I like the idea of going for a flight over some parts of Oz - the view would be spectacular....

Zachery
586 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 6:05AM
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10mm will be thick enough but will have to be supported, either alu or galv square bar across the vehicle prob 4 times, ends and equally spaced, and uprights on the centre line, if the uprights interfere with tub storage or general storage then stronger cross struts and no uprights

FormulaNova
NSW, 9014 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 9:03AM
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Select to expand quote
mathew said..

fjdoug said..

mathew said..
... I am looking to expand, say via a trailer for the motorbike/ultralight.



what sort of ultralight ?!



Nothing specific at the moment, but something small and electric. I like the idea of going for a flight over some parts of Oz - the view would be spectacular....


Really? Why electric? Are these sort of things even viable?

Good old petrol seems reliable, but crashing a drone is much easier to live with than running out of juice in an ultralight.

Ian K
NSW, 2893 posts
Thursday , 15 Aug 2019 9:22AM
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Zachery said..
10mm will be thick enough but will have to be supported, either alu or galv square bar across the vehicle prob 4 times, ends and equally spaced, and uprights on the centre line, if the uprights interfere with tub storage or general storage then stronger cross struts and no uprights



Are we reinventing the wheel here? If you need more room underneath you can jack it up at each corner with something from Bunnings.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-Antique-Brass-Double-Bed-Frame-Vintage-BOMADERRY-Fits-In-FORD-Territory/183916442413?hash=item2ad246332d:g:z9sAAOSwQmhdRj27

Slats are good. Allow the mattress to breath. turn them over if they sag.


mathew
VIC, 1748 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 7:31AM
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Ian K said..
Slats are good. Allow the mattress to breath. turn them over if they sag.


Slats are ideal - because they are pre-bent. A frame as shown, is heavy - which is fine if you want to lug all they weight around. Otherwise some type of lighter-weight solution is required.

Boombuster
QLD, 504 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 7:47AM
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mathew said..


Ian K said..
Slats are good. Allow the mattress to breath. turn them over if they sag.




Slats are ideal - because they are pre-bent. A frame as shown, is heavy - which is fine if you want to lug all they weight around. Otherwise some type of lighter-weight solution is required.



I used slats in my last Ace but they tend to rattle the hardest thing with fit outs in vans is stopped rattles and creaks.
Matt, any pic's from the HiAce fit out?

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 7:48AM
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My partner, who is not looking forward to fitting it out, suggested another solution. Give up sailboarding and buy a Toyota Yaris..

FormulaNova
NSW, 9014 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 8:40AM
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sboardcrazy said..
My partner, who is not looking forward to fitting it out, suggested another solution. Give up sailboarding and buy a Toyota Yaris..


Why is he fitting it out? What happened to gender equality? Nudge him out of the way and do it yourself! He can drive his own Yaris.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6654 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 9:04AM
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FormulaNova said..

sboardcrazy said..
My partner, who is not looking forward to fitting it out, suggested another solution. Give up sailboarding and buy a Toyota Yaris..



Why is he fitting it out? What happened to gender equality? Nudge him out of the way and do it yourself! He can drive his own Yaris.


I'm happy for him to do the work. He's had plenty of practice refitting boats..

Ian K
NSW, 2893 posts
Friday , 16 Aug 2019 9:15AM
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mathew said..



Ian K said..
Slats are good. Allow the mattress to breath. turn them over if they sag.





Slats are ideal - because they are pre-bent. A frame as shown, is heavy - which is fine if you want to lug all they weight around. Otherwise some type of lighter-weight solution is required.





it's 25 kg, $ 109 . I'd compare it to the price and weight of the other suggestions before writing it off.

plywood is about 600kg/m^3 a piece of 12 mm ply the same size as the bed frame would weigh 26 kg.

A good point though. I think before the next van fit out thread is started the bare van should go over a weigh bridge. Report back the fitted out van weight minus the watersport gear.

www.factoryfast.com.au/p/king-metal-bed-frame-bedroom-furniture/?utm_medium=ppc&utm_source=google-products&utm_campaign=furniture&ref=1292&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhdTqBRDNARIsABsOl98wtVoW5mmbQxMaNbiKErTLWb8NawiSrFs6r5yhsLXz1wmwSouv0pkaAizFEALw_wcB


Dimensions of frame: 183 x 203 x 30 cm (W x L x H)
Steel construction with powder-coated finish in black
Simple, modern design
Post leg diameter: ?38*1.0mm, height: 25cm
Bed base crossbar: 30 x 40 x 1.00 mm
Side Rail: 30 x 30 x 1.2mm
Gross weight: 25kg
Weight capacity approx 500kg (static loading conducted in factory)
Designed for Standard Australian Sized King Mattress: 183 x 203cm
PLEASE NOTE: Mattress arnd bedding are not included



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"Formally for van bed and shelving" started by sboardcrazy