555 said in the beginner gear thread...
Learning to get a shortboard back up-wind is one of the most fundamental skills you need to learn. It is a crucial skill to have if you're thinking of graduating to a wave board, freestyle board, or pretty much any kind of board (yes, even Formula..) if there's any chance at all that the wind might drop below planing speed!

It is definitely an acquired skill, but I have no problems getting my Go 155 upwind, even in 7 knots with a 4.2m wave sail on it (i.e. beginner weather). Certainly, it goes much better planing with a big sail, but I think recommending a centreboard is a step in the wrong direction as you miss out on those early and fundamental stance lessons.

Here is the problem. Using either a 2.0 Starboard kiddie sail or a 4.0 wave sail , I have tried to teach my kids and wife how to sail my wide board, a GO150. When they get the sail up and working they rapidly blow downwind in the 4 to 7-knot beginners breezes they need. I usually tow them back with a wave ski - bloody hard work if you are a klick or two downwind. But to make things faster I get them to take the ski back, and try to sail the board back myself. I can sail and tack fairly well, so I normally don't need to gain back 1 or 2 km of downwind. But in the light wind with small sail, I usually end up tacking across and back without gaining ground.

It seems from 555's remark the trick is 'stance'. My approaches have been:
1) get the board across the wind, set the sail at an angle, feet in the usual position so the board is as flat as possible; wait patiently for speed, and when I have a couple of knots head a little upwind. No gain, in fact serious loss resulting in being blown out offshore (using the 2.0) at Monkey Mia.

2) Assuming the problem is not enough keel, I ask around and the answer is 'the rail is your centreboard'. Fine, I balance so the upwind rail is down and tack like fury in decent wind, it works great though the drag is considerable when I realy dig in.

But in very light winds with the trainer sail 4.0, a little rail doesn't appear to do much and a lot is too much drag to get any speed at all.

I think I have fair idea what 'stance' is, but not how it fixes my problem of getting a long way upwind in light winds without a centreboard.

What am I doing wrong?

A Go is a shortboard, no?

As opposed to a longboard with a centreboard.

Well, its 555 who called it a shortboard. It certainly is a lot shorter than the old boards I used to sail. I think its about a 2003 model.

Muzza12, thanks, you have pointed out a feature of the design that helps explain the cause of the problem. The centroid of the little sails is too far forward of fin and steers it downwind... I saw it when the learners were sailing it actually.

Digging in the rail should alleviate that partly? And moving the mast base to the back of the track would also help. I am giving up on the 2.0 entirely, and will as suggested use my 5.5 for the bigger kids as they are now bigger than my wife

So overall, for this purpose a centreboard design AND a bigger sail is better for the beginner.

Hi Chris, Knotty has the technique pretty well described. From my experience of teaching people on the 155, the biggest issues stem from having the weight too far to the back (front foot against the mastbase is good, if not just in front of it) and not sheeting the sail in enough once it's leaning toward the back of the board.

The smaller sails do have a proportionally further forward centre of pressure, so you either need to rake them back more, or shift the mast base back to balance the centre of pressure of the sail with the lateral resistance from the board. When planing, the board's resistance is pretty well centred around the fin, but stooging around in 7 knots means that much more of the board is 'engaged' with the water, so the centre of resistance is further forward than normal. Note that the small sail has a forward centre of pressure (compared to a bigger sail), and the board now has a more forward centre of resistance.. so, it will work once you find the balance.

I do not use the rail on this board to go upwind - on my wave or freestyle boards, definitely, but the Go has quite a pronounced 'double concave' bottom which results in a pretty grippy V in the middle for most of it's length, and it has a huge long fin which offers tonnes of traction.

I don't recommend shifting the mast base back - 135cm from the tail works well. If you shift it further back, then you end up with more weight towards the tail, and the board trim tends to be a bit nose up, and therefore draggy. I don't have a sail smaller than 4.2m, but I know that the guy here who does lessons has 2m training sails, and he uses them on both go, and start boards to give lessons. His customers don't seem to have any problems heading up or downwind once he has them sorted. I'd use the biggest sail that your pupils are happy to uphaul. They're going to have to grow windsurfing muscles sometime!

Sheeting in seems to be the key ingredient in this scenario - with your front foot against the mast base, and your back foot probably midway between the front and back straps (depending on where you have the straps, and your build), and on the centreline of the board, rake the sail right back, and sheet it in so that the foot of the sail is pushing on your back shin. Most of your weight is on your front foot, and you're using your back foot for balance, and to push against the fin a bit (that's what it'll feel like anyway).

Once you have it there, you should be turning up-wind, and will eventually stall if you don't change something. The balance is now to catch the turn upwind before it comes to a stall by letting the sail come more upright (tip it more toward the front) to keep some momentum, and some wind in the sail. Keep the same pose as before, just move your arms. Momentum is where the long narrow boards have the advantage - being narrower they glide for longer which makes them more forgiving of the little things that you inadvertently do to upset the ride.

If you do find that the whole lot is heading off downwind no matter what, shift your weight back a bit and push sideways more with your back leg. If it's still not obliging, shift your front hand to the front of the boom keeping the sail really raked, and let go with the back hand so you can use the sail like a rudder to turn you back around to where you want to be pointing. If you want to make it fast, transfer a bunch more of your weight to the back of the board - this will kill your speed, but make the board more pivotal when you sweep the sail around.

Another point to note is keeping the sail vertical laterally (i.e. if you look from the front or back of the board along it's length) This presents the maximum area to the wind, and means that you have your weight balanced on the board nicely over the centre.

It is definitely not about speed, but more about scratching your way upwind by being consistent, smooth and patient! Focus on where you want to go rather than looking at the board or sail, and provided you have the right basic idea, your body will probably sort itself out so that you get there.. Also remember that you are the boss - the board and sail is under your control, not the other way around, so drive it like you mean it!

P.S. - I'm not an expert windsurfer by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just describing what works for me!

I'm not sure what year Go you have, but the 2004 version is 255cm long, and 84cm wide, so definitely a short, wide board.

http://2004.star-board.com/products/go.asp

555 said...


P.S. - I'm not an expert windsurfer by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just describing what works for me!


http://2004.star-board.com/products/go.asp

Very modest self evaluation to ability, but what 555 puts up re recommendations usually works for me, and I am one of the most bumble footed hack windsurfer around.

A little dude who uses a 2.0 -> 4.0 isn't going to have the same feel for the rig and board as you will. ie. too far forward.
I can't explain how to get upwind but my muscles & reflexes remember.
So let them scream downwind and enjoy it.
Keep paddling and just hope they invite you when they compete in Carbo Verde and hope that they will have the patience to teach you a push loop.

PS. I don't think a 50cm fin with an 8 cm cord is designed to work at 4 knots of boat speed.

PPS. I am experiencing the same problem with my son's jigsaw puzzle... man its an edge .... can't you see that.

ash said...


No one wavesails in offshore conditions. If the wind starts to die the wave sailors head to shore at what ever angle they can make and just lugg their stuff back upwind to the carpark. They bitch and moan about the wind dying, not about their ability to make a 22cm fin work to windward.

How about side, or side offshore wave sailing, and a good solid session of 'Down The Line' sailing?? Got to get back up to the upwind end of the break for your next run somehow..

Or maybe when the launch spot is downwind of the sailing area? When the break is a km or two out from the rocky beach with the shorebreak from hell, or when you inadvertently drift downwind into the marina or shipping channel, or past the end of the breakwater and need to get back where doing 'the walk' is not an option..

Add that to the fact that the wind on the face of a decent sized wave may be several times stronger than the wind between waves, so you're carrying a smaller sail than you would for the same wind strength on flat water, and you really do need to know how to sail on all angles when you can't plane..

Suggesting that you can windsurf without knowing how to get up wind on a floaty board when it's light, is like saying you can be a pilot, without knowing how to land when the engine cuts out - "It doesn't matter.. I just parachute out and walk back when I'm done".

Sure, a sinky waveboard is a mission to get upwind when it gets really light (like trying to glide a fighter jet with the jets turned off!), and it may be less effort to head for the beach and just walk, but when you're floating high and dry on 150 litres rather than having the sea lapping around your knees, there's really no reason you shouldn't sail it!