I hear ya! I can't stop thinking about the environment lately. I have already spent four hours researching and thinking about the environment today. I'm going crazy.

I'm staying positive, but seriously the outlook is grim. Have a look at your state's Environmental Protection Authority (or equivalent) webpage and read some of the reports. If you don't find anything specific to you (or if you're in WA) then have a look at the pdfs here http://portal.environment.wa.gov.au/portal/page?_pageid=673,1213489&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

As James Howard Kunstler put it, "we're sleep-walking into the future" (The Long Emergency: Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century, 2005)

plenty can be done guys,

the biggest thing is to start planting trees and lots of them...

then you create carbon credits... a ****y way of putting it but a very real method being used in big business around the world.

the other method is to go solar, wind and nuclear power wise.

buildings in most western countries, including australia must be designed to certain sustainable outcomes which is defined in the building code of australia. regulations are starting to force the whole credit thing into the construction industry. solar glass is on the market. concrete that soaks up Carbon etc.

there are definate changes happening as we speak. the question is is it all in time?

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Originally posted by Gestalt



the biggest thing is to start planting trees and lots of them...

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The Kwinana refinery of a major international fuel company produces 700,000 tonnes of CO2 pre year. This same company has tree plantations in WA as CO2 offsets. Combined, the tree plantations are believed to absorb 40,000 tonnes of CO2 pre year. Better than nothing. MORE TREES PLEASE.

Climate change has been going on as long as climate has existed. There has been hot times and there has been cold times. Currently we are in an interglacial period in an ice-age. The last 5000 years have been the most stable (climatically) in Earth history as we know it. The next 50 should be interesting.

It is important to remember that in all these warm and cool periods CO2 has never been a driver of climate change. CO2 quantity has always followed the warming or cooling trends.

Pugs

quote:

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Originally posted by hobie14t


I don't even know what I on a personal level can do that will actually make a difference...

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Well there's a few things everybody can do, the main thing is cut down energy use.
So much is wasted, things being left on when not in use, lights, TVs, computers etc.
Energy efficient appliances and light bulbs are also on the market, check it's energy rating before buying.
As Gestalt says, house design is another factor, there aren't very many around here that are designed to conserve energy, quite the opposite in fact.
We live on a narrow stretch of land, between ocean and estuary, houses on the ocean side have acres of glass facing west, houses on the estuary side have acres of glass facing east, requiring huge airconditioning system to make the livable. Some of them (mainly the older ones) have deep balconies to offer some shade, but the more modern ones don't even have eaves!

On a more positive note China has made some progress with nuclear fusion.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-09/28/content_5149325.htm

If the World can just tighten it's energy belt for a decade or so,
switch to renewable energy as much as possible, stop burning coal.
may be we don't have any worries.
Don't think John Howard's idea of pumping CO2 underground will work out somehow.

global warming = great for England, bad for Queensland

The answer = blokes keep yer doodles in yer pants and try to reverse the population growth.

less people = less needs of anything polutant

you have so much natural gaz in australia, why don't you run you car with it ?
i think this is great that petrol is so expensive because people really need to move their butt to find a solution now. no more excuses when the wallet is hit hard like that.
funny that in australia could get so much energy from the wind, sun and ocean but nothing or little is done.
if the peak oil is really near like some say, i wonder what will happend because all the boats and planes will stop travelling someday and it will be very difficult to leave in remote places. maybe even more than 200 years ago because all our appliances need electricity.
maybe then australia will be glad to have the aborigenies to show how to survive with little food and water ....

although i risk excommunication i thought i would chime in again.

hi nebbian,

I am no greenie, but planting trees goes a long way to healing the environment. it isn't the be all end all answer but is a very good solution.

it reduces erosion,
absorbs Co2,
provides habitat,
helps deter drought effects,
and cleans the soil.
prevents salination.

i am not suggesting that we cut the trees down and let them rot to turn back into Co2 but leave them there.

solar panels these days have up to 95% absorbtion rates. which is very high. there advantage is that they pump back into the grid which means the power stations are doing less work and therefore much less polution.

most metal based building products get there high sustainability ratings because they can be recycled. so the energy taken to melt them down is much less than the energy it took to make them in the first place. all ratings are based on life cycle so recycling gives huge bonus points.

clearly clean energy is the only real way forward. totally agree.

Decrepit, thought i would add a few things here.

My house in QLD requires no heating or cooling all year round and i have no overhangs either. it was designed to be passive but looks like a project home so no architectural awards here.

i have designed loads of houses with full height glass facing east and or west. the main issue with 80's designs was the lack of understanding about mass and cross ventilation. unfortunately just adding overhangs to the roof doesn't seem to fix the problem. because the spaces end up being very cold and then require heating.

oh yeah, and wanted to add.

although brazil uses better fuels than oz they are still systematically wiping out there old growth forests and wiping out species' that live there.

plus aren't hydrogen based fuels better than gas, or petroleum?

i was always 'lead' to believe it was exhaust fumes!

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Originally posted by hobie14t


Out of interest, what is the waste product produced after Ethanol is burnt in an engine? Dont tell me its CO2?

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Yeah probably, but the point is the CO2 came from the atmosphere in the first place, that's where the plants get it from, so there's no net addition to the atmosphere, unlike when it comes out of the ground!

The thing you've got to consider with any form of energy is the whole cycle.
So for instance, ethanol is getting a good rap and is considered 'clean' because as decrepit said, it started off in the atmosphere, got sucked into a plant, turned into alcohol, then burnt in a car, and ends up back where it started from: in the atmosphere.
Now take petrol: You dig a hole until you find some oil, pump it up to the surface, extract the bits you want, then burn it. This means that carbon that was in the ground is now in the air.
Both systems mean that your car 'produces CO2', however the first way is much better because you're not adding to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, just putting it through a cycle. (I'm ignoring the fact that oil was once C02 in the atmosphere as well before plants grabbed it and got squished over millennia and turned into oil, because it's totally out of our timespan)

Gestalt, the theoretical maximum a solar panel can be is less than 50%, and we're nowhere near this yet. The best space-grade panels are less than 40% efficient, and really really expensive. Your normal everyday solar panel is only about 15% efficient.
I agree, trees are good for a variety of reasons, but the whole carbon credits idea gives people a false sense of how things work. An established forest, while being described as "The lungs of the earth" isn't nearly as good as you might think.

Hydrogen is good, but consider this: The most economical way to obtain hydrogen is by, you guessed it, splitting up oil. Yep, the so called 'green fuel' really comes from oil. Sure you can stick a couple of platinum electrodes in water with an electrolyte, blast it with some amps and collect the stuff that comes off, but that's more expensive than splitting oil molecules. At least, that's what the oil companies are saying...
Here's BMW's latest offering, a hydrogen powered production car:
http://www.engineerlive.com/headlines/16400/hydrogenpowered-production-car.thtml
Still, with these things finally getting into production, we might be able to break the back of the oil companies' stranglehold on energy. Stick a couple of solar panels on the roof, get them to electrolyse water all day, and fill up your car with hydrogen when you get home... sounds good to me.

Here's a glimmer of hope, it's called Natural Capatilism.

You can actually download the whole book (chapter by chapter) from the site! www.natcap.org/

Premise is that when the oil revolution started they had an abundance of energy but labour was in short supply. We're still operating on those principles yet obviously the availability of our resources is visa-versa. We must adjust to these new realities.

hi nebbian,

i thouhgt the solar panel thing had come further than 15% but maybe i am thinking of the heating water type?


hobie, most windsurfers i know are pretty environmentally motivated. so all hope is not lost. i have done most of the suzuki things at home, apart from saving money it all helps in the end.

my question is that if the earth heats up will the seabreezes get stronger?

Yeah, those monkeys have no idea what they're doing. I paid them to make by balance worse a few months ago.

well, maybe not lighter because both will become hotter at the same time.
i am not sure most windsurfer care about the nature. most have a big 4 wheel drive, no ? they care because the save money doing it but they do not care just like that, for free and future generations otherwise you would have lots more of greenies around.

marc-a.

well, this is what i see in WA every summer at least ....
and with the economy booming, i see loads of brand new 4 wheel drive everywhere.
somebody told me australia is one of the best market for such cars.
for me, people mostly care about the nature to save their money and not because they believe in it.
it is the same here in europe and maybe even worst because we do not have sandy beaches and the roads are much better. the cities are not made for such cars also because the city where made hundreds of years ago with only horses or stuff like that.
how many people really drive their car off road anyway ? a few but the rest is brain washed to think they need it sometimes but mostly to go to wollies only.
marc-a.