Hi,

After getting waterstarting and planing in the straps under my belt, I'm now trying to figure out how to gybe. I've searched the forum and studied the training DVD but still can't get it right...

At the moment I start well, but when I get to pointing downwind that's where the wheels fall off. I just can't get the board to start pointing in the other direction, most times I just end up sailing downwind for about ten metres with both feet pointing forwards before the speed washes off so much that I end up doing a wheelie and falling off. I can't move the sail to the outside of the turn very far because then I get unbalanced and fall off on the outside. If I try to lean into the turn then I get to the same point, wobbling along with no speed trying desperately to move the sail to the outside to point me in the right direction.

Any ideas or excercises that I could try? Sailing clew first? Sailing directly downwind? Getting my weight forwards? Bending the knees? Tilting the sail upwind? Do I need more speed at the start of the gybe? My training DVD shows a guy on a massive board, whereas I'm on an almost sinker, it really doesn't translate.

P.S. Had a fantastic day out at Cabarita today, both feet in the straps like a pro, planing along and being at one with the board...

Hey Nebbian the only advise i have is to do short runs maybe 100M and prac jibe after jibe all afternoon.
Prac makes perfect.
ta vando

Hi Nebbian,
This info is for a carve gybe which helped me.

when you enter the Jibe you should be going in heading well down wind
when you exit the jibe you should be coming out down wind.
So in effect you are only making a 90 degree turn and not 180.
Choose one direction to concentrate on and stick to it till you nail it.

Conditions: You need flat water and good steady wind
Speed: As fast as you can comfortably go.
Where to look: Look at the mast foot. It will help you lean forward.

1. While planing fast head downwind, And I mean REALLY downwind (this will increase your speed)
2. Unhook
3. Move your back foot to just behind the inside front footstrap. Keep your outside foot in the strap.
4. Bend your knees and lean forward to get your weight forward and keep the board flat.
5. Get the board turning by applying pressure with your inside foot on the inside rail.
6. Keep the sail uppright. And take your weight off it by leaning forward. Do not use it to hang on to.
7. Just before you head completely downwind (still leaning forward to keep the board flat) throw the rig hard with your back hand. Dont hang on to the sail for comfort let it go EARLY.
8. As you Catch the rig on the other side move your outside foot into the back footstrap.
9. Don't try to turn up wind yet, get both feet in the straps and hook back in before you do.
10.Gybe finished.

Now you just gotta learn all over again going the other way.

Get these 10 steps sussed in your head BEFORE you go out on the water. Say to yourself 'right im gonna make it to step 5 today' and be glad when you do. Then just take it one step at a time.

If you want to get something sussed in a week take up kiting :)

Hi Nebbian,

to finish a gybe like Lars P., I`d say you have to finish 80% of
your wobble gybes in light wind before seriously try to train carve gybing. This nails your sail flip, you practice your foot work , you get a feeling where to put you weight to avoid slowing down (weight forward) and altogehter it`s not as frustrating as trying a carve gybe.My wife (we both sail) used to laugh at me when I was out in lightwind to wobble gybe. I carve gybe now and she started some time ago to do wobble gybes as well to catch up.
(her ratio is now 1 out of 5 to finish!!!)
cheers

No jumping yet - 2 very sad things

one - the car broke down in spectacular style and will be out for 2 weeks

two - summer has gone on strike, there are no seabreezes and I can't go out in Squalls as no car to get me there

OK OK, in the grand scheme of things it isn't that bad, but it makes me sad!

If you get frustrated learning to jibe, Daida and Iballa Moreno could do big jumps and forward before they learnt to jibe...

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Originally posted by nebbian

looks easy in the videos, but it's something else when trying to control a bucking board, gusty sail and step on the right positions!

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It's much easier to learn in smooth water with a steady wind, choppy water and gusty wind you don't need!!!

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although about half the instructors say to sail out clew first, the other half say to flip when heading downwind.

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I sail out clew first in a low wind flare/flarve gybe.
Once powered up and planning I flip half way round. The rig will really jerk if you flip the sail too late when powered up and
sailing powered up clew first isn't easy!!
But loosing all power half way round a gybe when your hardly moving anyway isn't good either.

Hey Ben,

I'm inclined to agree with rdunlop. Planing gybes take ages to get so just concentrating on the setup, entry and carve for now is good advice. I would emphasize that smooth water, steady wind, and the right board will make all the difference between getting it by next year or 2 years later. btw your board sounds about the right size at your weight + 20. I assume its a good carving shape and not too wide.

One thing that helped me greatly in cracking the planing gybe was a tip I got from someone on rec.windsurfing. To ensure that you carry sufficient speed into your gybe exaggerate your setup.
Setup is
a) Check around for other sailors and spot your gybe area
b) Hands, Hook, Foot. ie Back hand further back on the boom. Unhook and hang down and out from the booms staying fully sheeted in and powered up. Then take your back foot out and place it in front of the footstrap with the toes near the opposite rail. DONT STAND UP. Just gently pressure the opposite rail through the ball of your your back foot and you will scream off downwind in a wide arc, still hanging from the booms like a monkey.
<end of setup and entry>

<begin carve>
Before too long (about a second or so later)you will find yourself in catapult territory. You will feel a frisson of terror in your bones. As the sail pulls you forward go with it. Stand up and oversheet as you do to depower the sail.

This is a moot point. Others will say keep the power in your sail by sheeting out a bit as you carve around. I disagree because a powered sail is a complication you can do without. If you enter as suggested above you wont need any additional power, and if you depower as suggested the rig will almost disappear making for the simplest possible carve with the highest probability of success.

This oversheeting if done properly is simplicity and elegance itself. To elaborate :- As the sail pulls you forward go with it. Your weight goes over your back foot. Your knees are quite bent. Your upper body is erect and facing at about 2 o'clock. Your back hand is sheeted in with the booms almost touching your chest. Your front arm is fully extended reaching straight forwards maybe slightly to the inside of the turn. The rig is depowered and balanced on the mast foot. If you do this right it feels right.
<end of start carve>
<still carving begin rig flip>

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I assume its a good carving shape and not too wide.

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Yep it looks like a surfboard, it's a Mistral V105 Freeride. http://www.mamboo.ru/front/object~svu987156563541

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Before too long (about a second or so later)you will find yourself in catapult territory. You will feel a frisson of terror in your bones. As the sail pulls you forward go with it. Stand up and oversheet as you do to depower the sail.

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Mmmm how is the frisson of terror different to when I'm planing 'normally'?

I assume oversheeting means pulling the clew towards the wind so that the wind is pretty much blowing from clew to luff? This sounds like the pictures I've got for a 'laydown gybe', crikey I'd be happy just to turn around without getting wet at the moment!
Obviously there's more to this than meets the eye. Bit like riding a unicycle I think, it's all about balance and timing.
I'm probably going to hurt myself a couple of times before getting it... last time I went out I cracked a rib after catapulting into the mast HARD, it hurts to breathe in at the moment. Ouch...

Thanks so much for the advice, and to the others as well. It seems the pertinent lessons are:
* Take rear foot out of strap and push down on leeward rail
* Bend the knees
* Lean forward
* Sheet in
* Don't worry about the flip for now.
(I've broken this down lots because when on the water I have trouble remembering more than a couple of things, especially careering out of control downwind!!)

I'll let everyone know how things go, hopefully this thread helps other newbies like me to get further along.

I have reached the point of carving upwind until coming off the plane and doing a nice quiet tack on my 90 cm board.
Carving downwind produces a very wide turn until the wind catches up and terminates the procedure.
I have read of letting go with the front hand to depower the sail and speed up the gybe process.
Am I likely to suffer from this move?

Oldie (and Ben)

That's Jason Voss demonstrating a technique for handling overpowered gybes. The difficulty with overpowered gybes is that you can't sheet in enough to oversheet. It's just physically too hard with all that power in the sail. So unless you're having that difficulty you shouldn't do it.

It sounds to me like you are chasing the garden variety stalled gybe - you carve into your gybe and then you run out of steam and come off the plane. Once you come off the plane carving no longer works. If you try to carve you just stop.

You have to use rig steering to finish the turn. You must have power in your rig to do this so sheet right out. You lean your rig to the outside of the turn and you counter-balance by leaning your hips to the inside (arch your bod). Your rig is acting more like a spinnaker than a wing when you do this. You hold your board flat in the side to side orientation with a slight weight bias to the rear. The feeling is one of being precariously balanced.

The board will come around pretty quickly. The more you have your weight to the rear and the more outboard the rig is leaned the faster you will come about. To finish you step forward to flatten the board and flip the rig with a push and a pull. Note that the very act of flipping the rig will rotate the board even further so it's best to exit on a deep reach on your new tack. You only have to use this rig steering quite briefly. No sooner do you have your rig leaned outboard (from a dead downwind run) than you have to flip it. Flipping the rig will rotate you to a beam reach.

You can practice this in light winds.

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The board will come around pretty quickly. The more you have your weight to the rear and the more outboard the rig is leaned the faster you will come about. To finish you step forward to flatten the board and flip the rig with a push and a pull.

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I tried this yesterday, the wind was crap less than 10 knots, wasn't planing once so thought I'd still practice those 'flare gybes'. I managed to get past the straight downwind position for the first time EVER on this board! With my weight back the board came around quite quickly, by the time I was pointing 45 degrees back the other way I thought I'd try a sail flip... then everything went wobble splash.

I can see that it's possible though!

Also, a note for the newbies who think that you have to waterstart on an almost-sinker... if the wind is light then you can uphaul! Man if I'd known that before then it would have given me at least ten more hours on the water than I've had already.

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Originally posted by rosey

lay your sail down a bit more than usual and use your feet to your advantage

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A laid down sail has gotta come up again, and fast? Every carv gybe is different, it seems, and therein lies the problem, no time to adjust anything in the middle of the process. My 4.7 was wrecked today, now I know why it was so cheap, a brittle sail needs perfect sailing to survive.
On a wide board flare gybes are slow motion and easy to complete, but they are nothing to do with planing moves.

Oldie said
>On snow (my element) a board can be carved in a very stable fashion by employing "continuous sink". This involves timing a continuous lowering of the body to tighten the end of the turn. This might be important???<

Never heard of that but give it a go it might work. On water you achieve the same thing (I think) by continually tightening the radius of your turn. Go in wide and come out tight. In fact you aim to fell the right amount of pressure through your feet, the more the better.

Pity about your 4.7. You have just discovered what happens to cooked sails. Monofilm is destroyed by UV. You see rigged mono sails lying around in the sun cooking and dying all the time. What's more you can't see UV damage so when buying 2nd hand mono sails you have to expect the worst. Scrim sails are a better bet in that regard. They have 2 to 3 times the uv life of mono. Dacron's even better.