Does anyone know how longboards compare in speed with dinghy class sailing boats. ie a Laser or MG14 ?

What woud be a VYC Handicap for a Longboard?

EYEMHARDCORE, YOU ARE GAY.

I DONT THINK A ONE DESIGN WOULD BEAT A LASER OR MG14 ON A REACH. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE DINGHYS ARE ON THE PLAIN. MAYBE IT WOULD THOUGH.

The VYC yardsticks are;

Raceboard 7.5m sail - 97 (LW) 99 (HW)

Division 2, 7.3m sail - 102 (LW) 104 (HW)

"Division 2 Funboards pre '87", 7.3 sail - 107 (LW) 110 (HW)

Open Class 93 (LW and HW)

Windsurfer One Design - 112 (LW) 116 (HW)

Junior Under 16 any board 6.5 sail - 116

Junior Under 13 5.5 sail - 127

"Weight is the sailor's dry weight fully equipped including harness and safety gear. Heavy weight is greater than 81 kgs. In wind strengths consistently over Force 4 (15 knots) the yardstick for heavyweight sailors shall be the same as the yardstick for lightweight sailors."

I've calculated the times for the top sailors in Open Raceboard, Mistral/Raceboard 7.4 and Windsurfer One Design at Dobroyd Aquatic Club - a skinny bay with about 50+ active boards racing. In each class, the top DAC sailor is either 1st or 2nd in the nationals, and the yardsticks for those classes seem pretty good. The One Design is sailing to class rules ie no upwind pumping.

A Youth Worlds rep on the RSX 9.5 sailed to a rating at about 104 or 102, I think.

I would put a Kona One with 9 as about the same as a One Design from my experience with the Kona.

I feel strongly that the Junior and Division 2 yardsticks are wrong. Years back I sailed against top MGs on a Div 2 with big rig under the Open handicap and just monstered them in light winds. The Div 2 with 7.3 is quicker than a Raceboard around a course under 14-16 knots (world champ and Olympic medallist's estimate) and was as fast as the world's best pre-foil Moths in light winds and quicker in a breeze. I am hoping to establish Windsurfing NSW recommended figures for kids soon.

I also sail International Canoes (yardstick 94), Laser (yardstick 113), Laser Radial (116) and Tasar (107.5) at championship level. My gut feeling and limited experience is that the yardsticks on the boards are surprisingly accurate compared to the boats BUT with the huge proviso that the performance of the boards versus the boats is enormously influenced by the wind conditions and even whether it's a good day for footing into knocks or sailing high into lifts. On any given day the yardsticks could be wrong but overall they are surprisingly good as far as I can see.

Peto, in good planing winds a One Design will easily beat a Laser on a reach and can blast it upwind as long as it's not a day when high pointing is vital. The only time we put a GPS on a One Design is got 25.4 knots peak and 22.5 for 10 seconds, much quicker than a Laser on a reach - but in light winds the Laser will be a big problem for any board (bar a Div 2) upwind.

vb actually it does have fizz, but it's still the worst tasting poor-mans beer on the planet and i've had 28 years of people trying to convince me otherwise

Compared to VB, EB is pure gold!! Try to have a VB after a couple of boags or coronas, pure dog food!

Many moons ago I raced longboards (Bic Bebop to Bamba, Alpha, Mistral SST to Equipe) in mixed dinghy racing.

The longboards were competitive against a local class that raced off a Portsmouth Yardstick of 100 (Laser being 114, smaller numbers being faster) when it was windy. Courses were typical harbour courses around fixed nav marks (so not specifically laid for the race).

In 5-15kts the longboard could easily take the laser (especially on the reach), and above that there was no dinghy on the harbour that could beat the board.

JB

I assume that was me at the previous Marmong Midwinters or spring regatta. I'd like to let the 29 knots rumour keep flying around, PC, but it was only 25.4 max that day at Lake Mac (I borrowed Sam Parker's GPS and he checked the figures for me; btw there were no falls and the sustained 10s speed was 22.5 so it was no fluke).

I'm sure it could have been KNOTS quicker in flatter water or a wider angle, but there was heavy chop and I was so stuffed from racing that there was no way I was going to do more than just a quick beam reach out and back. I haven't got a GP, big wind and flat water together since but hopefully this winter may bring us some big westerlies. I wouldn't mind a big big blow and one of the Junior Barracouta 4.5s as well, to reduce aerodynamic drag.

I did sail Wallies years ago but got out of them from about '81 to '04 and sailed everything else - then when I borrowed one I realised what I'd been missing!

Pat from the raceboards has got 32.XXXX or something on his board. In contrast, world LAser champ Michael Blackburn has topped out at 19 knots or something and the 49er allegedly has a surprisingly slow top speed of around 23 knots. Of course, boats give boards (Div 2 apart) a kicking in light winds (and the skiffs are really quick and deep downwind in under 10-15 knots).

By the way, if you live near Marmong I should let you know that a Lake Mac fleet is reforming; we had five Lake Macsters at the NSW titles and several more will sail but had a dinghy regatta.

Chris 249 said...

and the 49er allegedly has a surprisingly slow top speed of around 23 knots.

this is incorrect! 49ers top out at around 30, supposedly up to 34...
and with the new rig comming out most probably higher.

X-man said...

Compared to VB, EB is pure gold!! Try to have a VB after a couple of boags or coronas, pure dog food!

Now HOW the HELL can you put Boags and Corona in the same sentence?

BOAGS is an excellent, flavoursome masterpiece of brewing perfection; Corona is like the beer you have when you're not having a beer... or the beer you had yesterday, recycled...

Chris 249 said...

49ers don't go that fast according to the last stuff I heard or read from the world champion's coach, Emmett - one hell of a good 49er sailor himself.

Take this quote from Emmett comparing a 12 Foot Skiff to a 49er; "Best speed Richard and I did today (in the 12) was 22kts. Shortly afterwards Richard sat in because I was struggling to keep the boat under the rig, then Bocko blasted over the top of us! That's quicker that I ever recorded on 49er to date....... 49er rarely exceeds 20kts downwind, but easily does 15kts in 15kts of wind, so feels very nice downwind in medium stuff."

well i just came back from the worlds and there were boats there hitting 28+.
I have seen 29ers hit 23-24 knots in a fresh blow downwind. and im pretty sure 49ers make it alot easier than the 29ers do.

Wet Willy said...

X-man said...

Compared to VB, EB is pure gold!! Try to have a VB after a couple of boags or coronas, pure dog food!

Now HOW the HELL can you put Boags and Corona in the same sentence?

BOAGS is an excellent, flavoursome masterpiece of brewing perfection; Corona is like the beer you have when you're not having a beer... or the beer you had yesterday, recycled...

A pearl of wisdom this Just washing the salt down with a boags now

Unchained said...

hoop said...

You in 29ers or have you moved to 49ers now?

49ers

I guess the logical progression is they'll make a skiff called a 69er?

Unchained said...

Chris 249 said...

49ers don't go that fast according to the last stuff I heard or read from the world champion's coach, Emmett - one hell of a good 49er sailor himself.

Take this quote from Emmett comparing a 12 Foot Skiff to a 49er; "Best speed Richard and I did today (in the 12) was 22kts. Shortly afterwards Richard sat in because I was struggling to keep the boat under the rig, then Bocko blasted over the top of us! That's quicker that I ever recorded on 49er to date....... 49er rarely exceeds 20kts downwind, but easily does 15kts in 15kts of wind, so feels very nice downwind in medium stuff."

well i just came back from the worlds and there were boats there hitting 28+.
I have seen 29ers hit 23-24 knots in a fresh blow downwind. and im pretty sure 49ers make it alot easier than the 29ers do.

Well I recon they had their GPS's set on KM or maybe MPH at best!!!

I agree with Chris 249

Until I actually see a downloaded track form a dinghy that claims to have done over (or even close to) 30 knots I treat claims like this as complete fantasy. or at best GPS error!!

Interesting, Unchained. I was going on the best information I had (Emmett's stuff and some other info).

I wasn't attacking 9ersa because they are great in so many ways, but just making the point that longboards DO reach quickly and can get around a course quite well.

Sailquick, I'm sure you're right, the relative performance of boards does vary so much against boats that the weather is the critical factor.

I don't think a FW board could really be handicapped against longboards; they are soooo fast when planing and so slow when not planing! One of our top guys was 4th of about 40 in his first FW regatta and he was sometimes first but normally miles behind when he sailed in our little light-wind puddle. A single hole or drop in the breeze will too much variation in their speed for any handicap.

At a guess and using info from teh club where foiler Moths sail against FW boards, in planing conditions maybe they'd sail to 75-80???? In non planing conditions I have no idea but it ain't quick! Foiler is 83 which was worked out from foiling conditions; under 6 knots as I understand it the right handicap would be maybe 102??????????

Does anyone else here ever sail a FW board against boats and what do you keep up with, both in planing and non planing?

for yardsticks basically it works like this.
moths and 29ers both work on around 92-93 depending on who is organising the regatta and where they get the info from.
49ers have a yardstick of 83
and 18ft skiffs work on a tentative yardstick of 68.5

to my understanding this means that a 18ft skiff has to sail the same distance around a course as a 29er, but a 18 will do it in 23.5 minutes quicker over a 92 minute period.

Seen the Ronstan Video "Awesome aussie skiffs" ??? Heaps of speed and carnage. ps. boags is great, VB is cats wee...corona is a good breakfast beer.