They both belong to the same parent company. I think it's called Pryde Group.
www.pryde-group.com/

Fragile boards deserve fragile sails????

(heat resistant flame-suit being donned as we speak)

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Originally posted by Mark _australia

Fragile boards deserve fragile sails????

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You must have had a bad experience mark, Share it with the world.
Lots of people in my area have used the gear for a long time and lots of other guys use other gear and all sorts of stuff breaks especially if you're a klutz.Anyway great reading you guys always poke fun at each other.

quote:

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Originally posted by the skipper

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark _australia

Fragile boards deserve fragile sails????

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You must have had a bad experience mark, Share it with the world.
Lots of people in my area have used the gear for a long time and lots of other guys use other gear and all sorts of stuff breaks especially if you're a klutz.Anyway great reading you guys always poke fun at each other.

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No, seen a few bad experiences that's all. I can't stand NP due to the way they do business (funny mast curves to make you buy their mast, warranty issues I've heard of, build quality and others). JP were very fragile and had a real bad rep about 2000-4. Once bitten twice shy.... probably OK now.

BUT the post was more a joke...... we've done the who loves NP who hates NP thread many a time so I wasn't looking to do it again... just a stir.

and the only way to may them well again is to use their own brand of medicine...... the exact same spec medicine from a different shop won't work.

not sure what the quality issues are people are speaking off here. There was a batch of masts a couple of years back which had quality issues but every single faulty mast was replaced without question.

In the past I have never really had any issues with NP or JP not honoring warranty on faulty or broken equipment either.

As far as board breakage goes it's all much of a muchness. I think any board will break if you "abuse" it. It doesn't matter if it's a JP, Starboard, Mistral or whatever...

??? I don't think Ford vs Holden compares in this debate.

To me Ford and Holden as far brands are concerned are more comparable to say KA sails and Aquatec Sails.

NP, Gaasta etc are more like getting a real car like say a Porsche or Mercedes.

Boy o Boy Mark, have you got some grinding prejudice or what buddy, Your stirring turned to hatred after a few guys gave their opinion, And your baseless analogies about things you "heard of" don't really hold any truth. Your finger needs to be pulled out, It's affecting your brain.

Well mark, it's good to see you passionate about your sport, but i'm sure if you spent a few minutes with me an my mates we could show you how to rig almost any wave or freeride sail on almost any mast and still the rig would perform to almost its optimum performance to the given carbon or glass content. you just have to know how to rig sails properly, takes a few years of riggin and sailing lots of brands.
Hardcore? Hardcore? sounds like Kooksville, you mark or should i say marky mark must get washing machined heaps because of lack of skill.
Bad warranty, Bad retailer, Mines all good,i trust them with the stuff they sell me, brisso and goldie.
Mark,you may have cut open a board but you have nothing to back your claims, tell everyone more.
Most windsufing boards come out of the same factory not counting the local custom manufacturers, and therefore share the same technology.
So i don't really know where you are coming from.

Roger that, here we go.

I'll try to be brief, but doubt it.

Rig any sail on any mast????. Strewth where to start. OK. IMCS does not equal curve. A mast can have a top half that is flexy in relation to the bottom and still be (for example) a IMCS 21. That's a Fact.
If the sail is designed on a very constant curve mast, it will set crap on the *same stiffness* mast with a flexy top. Downhaul and outhaul fiddling will not make it set optimum. That is also Fact, sorry skipper. BTW I've got 17 years rigging and sailing many brands.
For a real insight (you may have to suck it up and just deal with the fact that it is real scientific measurements) try: www.peterman.dk/windsurf-mast-article-gb01.htm

Cut open *A* board??? No, many.
Nothing to back up my claims? Have a look at the pics from last time we all debated this crap. Two boards, both from cobra factory, both are "carbon sandwich". One has only one x 4mm divinycell with a strip of 4" wide carbon up the middle, the other has a double sandwich with half the deck covered in carbon. The latter is obviously much stronger, neither brand lied in their advertising as all they said was "carbon sandwich". The proof is in the pics.
You say they are "the same technology" mate you must work in marketing. By your logic, the space shuttle and sailboards are the same technology. Check out the mistral on boardlady.com which claims to be carbon yet has none.
Now how pissed off would you be, if you and a mate bought boards that claimed to be same technology, but yours busted 2 years before his and turns out it has less 'good stuff' in it???? And then you start hearing "yeah they are apparently a bit fragile" from a few sources. Too bad if you bought that one huh. No I didn't but one, it didn't happen to me so I'm not being a sore loser I just feel sorry for the poor buggers who have bought boards that are marketed as same construction but are waaaayy weaker. I'll give you a tip, that is the experience of a few ppl with JP, F2, Mistral and Tiga in particular. . Give me RRD, Starboard, Quatro any day.

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Originally posted by stehsegler


Re construction of boards F2s, JPs, etc. being weaker. Please don't make such uninformed statements. German surf magazin has found very different results when doing actual scientific tests as well as surveying 5.000+ readers.

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All of the above thread is pretty subjective and we'll have to disagree. I'm getting sick of having to defend my position about the above though as it is a bloody fact. Double sandwich is stronger, period. Go ask an engineer working in composites if you feel the need. It is a fact that Eva cut open a Mistral that said it had carbon in it and there was none. It is fact that F2 maui projects were single thin sandwich but a starboard same year, same shop, and $200 cheaper was double sandwich with heel bumpers.
There is how many, like 100 different waveboards made by Cobra. All described as basically foam sandwich. Some are made with double, some single, but they cost pretty much the same.
Now if you bought a new car, then a after a few months somebody leant on it and dinged it, then you found out most cars use 1mm sheet metal for panels but yours uses 0.6mm, you'd be annoyed?

quote:

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Originally posted by Crash Landing

<snip> Mark, I agree with what your saying RE construction techniques and that you expect to get the same quality from any brand at the equivalent price. <snip>

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Glad somebody does, I was startin ta get all lonely

um..... didnt think to get this much response!! looks like i have opened a can of worms!! very goood!! im enjoying it! if NP sails only work on NP masts..... buy a NP mast!!!!! EASY!! (no offence!) AND ...... why are JP/NP so big and RICH!!!!!$$$$$$$$ if they r crap????? doesnt it mean they are so good cause heaps of ppl buy them???? thats just my 2 cents!! cheers, chris

I could be a great cynic and say it is the aim of some companies to ensure boards only have a limited life - to fully capitalise on the current market demand size - chasing profits. In a market that has plataued companies aim to differentiate themselves via product differences (commonly just marketing hype) or gain a competitive advantage by reducing costs of making their products compared to competitors. Windsurfing has been declining for years and is only growing again thanks to innovation by a few companies (SB etc). Some companies that are not innovators (though pretend to be) and not generating new sales from newcomers will look to improve profits by cutting costs, marketing ploys and copying others. As I first said a very cynical view but the windsurfing industry probably needs more consolidation (merging of brands) to be a further benefit to consumers and the main companies themselves. Having said that there will always be a strong market for niche small manufacturers that can provide a stronger/better product in their niche markets.

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Originally posted by demons_taipan11

if NP sails only work on NP masts..... buy a NP mast!!!!! EASY!!

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That is all well and good for the richer of us but two times it breaks down:

(1) newbies don't understand the technical aspect of luff curve etc and think if it says 430/21 on the mast that it is the *same*
If a newbie intermediate starts with 2 NP's and a NP mast, then buys another brand he is terribly disappointed. If he bought for example Simmer sails or Ezzys, later he can run any one of 30 sails on that mast ... not just one brand as per NP.
I don't give a toss, I have enough money to buy what masts I need.... but I remember being a 17 y/o with mismatched gear, and I still see the same dejected newcomers who saved up $500 and got a P.O.S sail or mast that doesn't work for them.

(2) when you bust a mast on the wavesailing trip of a lifetime in a remote area. I can ring a shop and ask for a Simmer SC RDM, or Ezzy RDM, or No Limitz, or Severne at least..... there would be another 5 or so masts at least. However, for a NP you're pushing it uphill big time.... if they don't have a NP mast you are buggered.

I'll say it again: I challenge all the companies to mark masts and sails with a bend curve as well as IMCS (same as the peterman site suggests). Eg's 430/21/ 6 is bottom flexy. 430/21/10 is spot on constant curve. 430/21/13 is tip flexy. So if you sail needs a 430/21/7 you know you'll be pretty good with another brand of mast that is 430/21/ 6 - 8.
But they won't cos 2 -3 of the BIG manufacturers want to sell you as much kit as they can and they continue to stall any campaign to have *truth in mast measurements*