I had a Ka Koncept a couple of years ago, they are OK, but they are not the strongest freerace sails you can get. My current Naish stealth is made a little heavier and stronger and is nicer to use, but it is a full race sail.

Dont get me wrong, the Koncept is a very quick sail and nice to use, but there are other sails made by the bigger companies such as the NP V8, Ezzy Infinity, and North Daytona, which are nice freeride sails and made a little more heavy duty than Ka.

The bigger brands also seem to have a better resale

Hi jp747

Luff sleeve on the Koncepts are quite thin, kind of made of a thick dacron like material, and the monofilm seems quite thin as well. Makes for a light sail, but they are made more like a prototype kind of construction, just have to be careful with them.

Arnie, Why don't you look at the Koyote which is designed as a blasting sail. I have an 06 Koncept 6.6 which has been thrashed but a few bits of sticky back over some chafe on the luff sleeve and clear packing tape over creases in the monofilm before they become splits keeps the sail performing like new. (at least untill the 08 stock arrive.) I think that either the Koyote or Koncept should suit your needs.

From looking at the film thickness specs on many brands of sail it seems that the KA Koncept uses film that is at least as thick as other brands. The luff material in 03-06 models was a heavy Dacron type that was lighter in weight than some luff materials but comparable in strength. We found some were having issues with holes on the luff when rigging on hard surfaces like car parks so this year the luff material has changed to the more common type. It will add slightly to the weight I think but this seems to be what the market wants. One of the other reasons why the Koncept sails are lighter in overall weight than many other fast sails is that they are deliberately designed to 7 battens and 3 cams. We have found they still can have outstanding stability and give a lighter more responsive feel. And of course their speed credentials are well proven. Kind of a "have your cake and eat it too" situation. Lighter overall weight does not necessarily mean less strength! A sail can be physically heavier but still have a light handling feel and visa versa. The common feedback from Koncept users is that the sails have a light 'feeling' and are very stable which is what the designer is aiming for.

Hi Arnold , The question is , do you want cams ? If not , definitely consider the KA Koyote . I would never have considered a sail like this , but a month or so ago I was helping Andrew rig some Koncept and Koyote proto's, down at Beaumaris . I took the day off from work as the forecast was good .
The wind came up and I had my boards in the car but no sails . I grabed a Koyote 5.3 proto and zoomed up to Green Point . Man , what a great sail . Having seven carbon tube battens it was so stable , I thought I was on a Koncept , and fast too . I was passing people on full slalom gear .
It,s 100% Grid Xply , no durabilty issues with this one , Kevlar xply down the leech and luff .
I won,t bag out on no cam freeride /freerace sails again after having used this . It,s definitely worth considering .

Seeya Martin

Hey Arnold, I dont know about no-cam race sails. In bigger sizes the shape would float around the sail, it would be like the old windsurfer one design sail.

And using them, I reckon you would always be wishing there was at least 2 cams to hold some of the shape in the sail. I reckon a freerace/freeride sail should have at least a cam or two.

"Azz, you do realise:
a) Arnold asked for a sail for "bay blasting".
b) The fastest no-cam sails are doing over 40 knots?"

Sorry Arnold, I was just thinking about myself, as I like the locked in feel, but everyone is different. I just reckon if it is a big sail you are after, a cam or 2 makes a nicer feeling sail if you start to get over powered, yet still allows for a sail that is easy to rig and gybe. The North Sails X Type is a nice looking no-cam sail, but to me, not having a cam in a race/flatwater sail is like waking up, having a shower, putting on a nice suit, and then wearing a pair of old Dunlop Volleys, my point being, why go half way, you mose well just go all the way.

I have read a bit on no-cam sails. Hotsails dont make a cam sails, they love the no-cam idea. In bigger sizes, I see the draft moving all over the place when the wind picks up, and in smaller sizes a cam is going to help top speed and hold the draft in position better, so why would you want a no-cam sail, when 1 or 2 cams are only going to help, and it is not like a 1 or 2 cam sail is anything like a NP RS or any kind of full on race sail.

So I have actually changed my mind again, so I am not sorry Arnold. Dont get a no-cam sail. No Cam = No Good.

Seeing as you "spilt the beans" Gesalt and posted an early 08 Koncept sketch I thought I may as well post the final one .
Here it is , and this is what the 08 will be .

www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=6050

Hi Arnold , I was of pretty much the same opinion about no cam freerace sails . I have had a couple of Retro,s and a Severne NCX that were very good sails but just didn't have the stability at the top end . The 08 Koyote I tried was definitely far more locked in . Granted it was a 5.3 and I can't vouch for the larger sizes , but the carbon tube battens make a huge difference . The much stiffer tail sections on the battens really prevent the draft from moving back too far ,the downside being the sail probably loses some bottem end .
But if you want cams ,then cool .It was just a suggestion.
Regards Martin

quote:

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Originally posted by jp747

stewie thanks for the info on the koncept..i think all race sails should be light however for the average sailor who'd like to make it last at least 2yrs. should be looking to more thicker monofilm and tougher luff material..rigging and derrigging does take it's toll..is the koncept a "slide in the mast, downhaul a bit, outhaul a lot and pop the cambers in?" cuz' if it is it should last not creasing the monofilm...regards

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Hi Jp747.

Check the specs of the '08 Koncept that Mr Love posted. I would be very surprised if any other race type sails had monofilm thicker than the Koncept and the luff material is tuff and reinforced around the cam areas.

Rigging method for the '07 was as you describe above. At least the larger sizes in '08 will rig the same way.

The 2008 have a nice shape. Pity about the lack of colour, they look kind of washed out on the water and hard to see from a distance, a bit like the grey 2006 Koncepts. The colour scheme seems a direct ripoff from the Lorch graphics of last year... I see Martin has just got himself a couple of those.

Hey Yoyo , Rip off is a bit steep !!!!

Lorch is KA,s European distributor and sell alot of KA Sails . It would be totally negligent of me as a Designer to ignore a major customer . Of course one of the colour schemes had to be compatible with their board range . However , the Koncept also comes in Orange and Blue ,which will match other major brands of board.
The wave sails are available in Red,Orange,Blue and Fluro yellow schemes , some with Metalex , so there,s something for everybody .
You have obviously seen Chris's sails which are early proto's . The graphics have changed a bit .
The idea behind the Koncept graphic was to represent the sail for what it is , a simple ,highly efficient ,no Bulls..t performer . Not a fashion accessory .

Noted .
I have been designing stuff for long enough to know it is impossible to keep everybody happy . Some like restrained , some like loud .

It,s worth noting that one of the key priorities for 08 was to keep the weight done , therefore we tried to keep "aplied graphics" to a bare minimum . Performance was the no.1 objective .

I have had alot of comments when I have been using the 08 Kult and Kaos proto,s about how good they look !!!
As I said , you can't make everybody happy , what one person loves another will hate . Thats what makes design such a challenging profession .

Seeya Martin

"..what one person loves another will hate . Thats what makes design such a challenging profession ."

not to mention sometimes photo/sketch and in-the-flesh impressions can be quite different or in our case in the shop at point of sail or 200m from the beach which may stimulate you to check one out in the shop etc etc........

hi andy/sailquick, didn't know mr.love designed the ka sail..it's a wonderfull sail i would definitely would like to try one out if only there was a distributor here..if you say the rigging process is slide and pop then thin or thick monofilm would not be an issue..a friend told me the trend of sails now is the slide and pop to i guess make rigging easier..really don't know if thats true?!?but certainly makes it a lot lot easier..also regarding battens? i guess this one is for mr. love, why would maui sails put 9 battens on a 5.9? am puzzled it'll lock the shape hard but a 7battened one would do just as fine...regards