Lightning...

> 10 years ago
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sinker
sinker
WA
255 posts
WA, 255 posts
6 Jun 2005 3:24pm
I was just wondering, does anyone know if you're likely to get struck by lightning while you're sailing (I would assume a 4M carbon fibre mast would work a bit like a lightening rod?)

And what about kites?.. do kitestrings conduct electricity? and if so does that mean they're more likely to get struck than a poleboarder as they're higher?

rosey
rosey
NSW
575 posts
NSW, 575 posts
6 Jun 2005 5:56pm
ive been out in a big lightining storm and came away un scathed..probably just my luck but i wasnt going to let a 35knot sourtheryly just pass by
FilthyAmatuer
FilthyAmatuer
WA
877 posts
WA, 877 posts
6 Jun 2005 4:01pm
i remember way back, maybe 5 years, maybe a few more when I used to sail JDs, a signet or a heron, not sure which, prolly a signit got hit by lightnight while sailing on the river. The guys sailing it where fine, sail and top of the mast was a little burnt but other than that nothing major, the news people came down to interview them. Was pretty funny, Graphite conducts electricity but coal doesnt, I am not sure weather a carbon mast would conduct electricity, coz its held together by resin which is a plastic. Depends if the carbon has free electrons like graphite does... I imaging u would be pretty safe though, there is lots of water around u for the lightning to hit.
leski
leski
NSW
661 posts
NSW, 661 posts
6 Jun 2005 6:30pm
a pretty good way to do a quadruple forward
bluejuice
bluejuice
WA
334 posts
WA, 334 posts
6 Jun 2005 6:52pm
Years ago I saw a pic in a US mag of a guy whos mast got hit by lightning while sailing It destroyed his mast into dust, blew a big 35cm hole out of the bottom of his board. He was totally paralized in the h2o luckily his harness and wetty had enough bouyancy to keep him floating and he landed on his back so he was able to breath, if he landed face down paralized he would have drowned.
jan
jan
WA
1119 posts
jan jan
WA, 1119 posts
6 Jun 2005 8:21pm
sinker, kites and thunderstorms don't mix... edison figured it out first

many kiters have reported boost/jolts from static build up that occurs when thunderstorms are simply close by let alone on top of you
FilthyAmatuer
FilthyAmatuer
WA
877 posts
WA, 877 posts
6 Jun 2005 10:43pm
more chance of being eaten by a shark
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
7 Jun 2005 8:46am
Your board needs to be earthed and you could wear rubber booties.
slowboat
slowboat
WA
560 posts
WA, 560 posts
7 Jun 2005 11:40pm
Dont sail in thunderstorms unless you have a death wish.

Carbon masts conduct better than a lot of things lightning likes.

So do people.

Epoxy resin does not act like an insulator to large static discharges- its like trying to stop an elephant with a sheet of dunny paper.



Matt
Matt
WA
84 posts
WA, 84 posts
8 Jun 2005 9:41am
Great elephant anology - Also remember regardless of whatever material kite lines, masts etc are made from, they will generally have a coating of salty very conductive water on them.

Lightning is very non-linear and tricky to predict, as a general rule the protection coverage that something gives extends out at an angle of 60 degs to the horizontal drawn from the top of the object (thats the conservative rule of thumb used for protecting eletrical sub stations).

So if you're on the surface of the water and want to get protection from a teabag with a deathwish, make sure that if their kite is 20m up in the air, that you stay within 11.5m of them. You'll be protected from the lightning but not the kiter! Note if you've got a 4m mast up yourself, then this distance will reduce to 9.2m.

Heres advice from a website: www.tandfonline.com/action/cookieAbsent

"On the water. Swimmers, anglers, and boaters should get off lakes or rivers and seek shelter when storms approach. Drop any fishing rods. Boaters who cannot get off the water before the storm hits should crouch low. Once on land, get at least 100 yards away from shore. "

Heres another ref:
www.foremostboaters.com/safety/lightning.htm

And heres some nice pictures to inspire those that want to go onto the next life ASAP:
www.crh.noaa.gov/mkx/slide-show/tstm/slide69.html
skyflashes.com/197072903.html

Sail Safe

Matt
doc jans
doc jans
VIC
70 posts
VIC, 70 posts
9 Jun 2005 10:41am
Friend and I were sailing in Sydney a few years back when a storm approached. We werent too worried about it cos it seemed far away. He was teabagging and he noticed when he boosted and then landed he got quite an electric shock.. he thought it was an electric eel.. but after a few more boosts he realised that it was the static he was building while he was in the air, and as he landed it discharged giving him a jolt... lol
FilthyAmatuer
FilthyAmatuer
WA
877 posts
WA, 877 posts
9 Jun 2005 10:30am
in that photo, it didnt hit the boat... the water near it instead, wat does that tell ya... and that boat would be a lot taller than a windsurfer.

the board is always earthed, its sitting in the salty ocean water
FilthyAmatuer
FilthyAmatuer
WA
877 posts
WA, 877 posts
9 Jun 2005 10:31am
anyone know how to take photos of lightning, i tried the other night with my digital camera... made the shutter open for a long time, could never get anything
big-gazza
big-gazza
WA
101 posts
WA, 101 posts
9 Jun 2005 10:39am
Hi doc jans,
Having read the article below - it sounds like your friend was very lucky, as he discharged the positive buildup when he landed - had it got to a certain point he might have been zapped big-time!

"Positive charges accumulate

As a thundercloud passes overhead, a concentration of positive charges accumulates in and on all objects below the cloud. Since these positive charges are attempting to reach the negative charge of the cloud, they tend to accumulate at the top of the highest object around.

On a boat that may be the radio antenna, the mast, a fishing rod, or even you! The better the contact an object has with the water, the more easily these positive charges can enter the object and race upward toward the negative charge in the bottom of the cloud.

When lightning occurs

Lightning occurs when the difference between the positive and negative charges, the electrical potential, becomes great enough to overcome the resistance of the insulating air and to force a conductive path between the positive and negative charges.

This potential may be as much as 100 million volts. To help you understand the magnitude of this voltage, the voltage needed in an automobile to cause a spark plug to fire is only 15 to 200 volts! And the spark plug gap is only a fraction of an inch!

On water, boats are the highest objects in lightning's immediate area

When lightning does strike, it will most often strike the highest object in the immediate area. On a body of water, that highest object is a boat. Once it strikes the boat, the electrical charge is going to take the most direct route to the water where the electrical charge will dissipate in all directions. "
FilthyAmatuer
FilthyAmatuer
WA
877 posts
WA, 877 posts
9 Jun 2005 10:55am
how do the positive charges accumulate?
I thought lighting was a huge static buildup, caused by the moving air pulling electrons of other things hence the static charge. I always thought it hit the ground because the ground has a potential of zero (coz it is so big) and the charges wanted to move to areas of the greatest potential difference, hence other clouds oppositely charged or the ground.
I thought it strikes objects as a shortcut to the ground??? :S ??

Oh yeh, u know u can make plasma (lightning is a plasma) in your microwave... hehe and its real easy to do
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
9 Jun 2005 6:39pm
I'm pretty damn sure a guy was killed by a lightning strike while windsurfing on Lake Macquarie a few years back; it was in the paper and later I found out a guy I know had tried to help him.
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