Need help with mast and sail

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shwell
shwell
WA
15 posts
WA, 15 posts
17 Sep 2006 6:15pm
Greetings,

I bought a 5.3 sail off ebay expecting to just wack my mast up it and get going however it's not to be. The sail has numbers such as; Boom - Min 169 Max 172, Luff - Min 456 Max 459, Mast IMCS 23-26cc. That means nothing at all to me, all I know is that mast is fibreglass, in two sections about 4.4m tall and has a 47mm diameter foot.

The problem is my mast is too fat to fit right up the sleeve. Can anyone tell me what these numbers mean and what I need to use my new sail.

Regards,
Shwell.
divaldo
divaldo
SA
2879 posts
SA, 2879 posts
17 Sep 2006 8:00pm
Maybe you need a skinny mast?
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
17 Sep 2006 7:00pm
Shwell

These numbers mean:

Boom 169-172: The recommended boom length to use for the sail in cm (more outhaul (ie 172cm) for stronger winds).

Luff 456-459: The recommended mast length to use for the sail in cm (more downhaul (ie 459cm) for stronger winds).

IMCS23-26: IMCS is the mast stiffess. The "cc" possibly means constant curve. Which is the bend character of the mast.

IMCS 23-26 sounds to me like the sail should rig on a 460 cm mast (with no extension, or a little let out at the head of the sail - the sail it has an adjustable head). If your mast is 440 cm, you should use 16 to 19 cm of extension.

Your mast should fit up the sail luff sleeve. Modern standard diameter masts are a little narrower than older standard diameter masts in the tip. Try putting the mast into the sail like a concertina.

Pugs
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
17 Sep 2006 9:07pm
It could be that the sail wont take a standard dia mast. What brand and model is it?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
17 Sep 2006 7:10pm
boom length = 1.7 meters
mast length = 4.3 meters + extender
mast stifness is the IMCS thing.
It doesn't say anything about diameter.
But modern sails are designed for carbon masts which have a smaller dia above the boom than the old style fiberglass had.

If your mast is much older than 10 years, most modern masts should fit your sail.
But if your mast is less than 10 years old, as divaldo says, the sail may be designed for only skinny masts, (although I haven't seen one)
shwell
shwell
WA
15 posts
WA, 15 posts
17 Sep 2006 7:18pm
quote:
Originally posted by NotWal

It could be that the sail wont take a standard dia mast. What brand and model is it?



Thanks everyone for your comments, it's making more sense now. The type of sail is a North Rave 5.3, it's a wave sail but i'm a newbie and want it for heavier winds.

It looks like i'll need a new mast, anyone got one with a 47mm hole in it?
shwell
shwell
WA
15 posts
WA, 15 posts
17 Sep 2006 7:48pm
The board is old style, over 20 years old, the model is a Bic210s, are these mast extensions universal?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
17 Sep 2006 8:38pm
the modern standard dia is 49mm, or skinny masts whch are a lot smaller.
There used to be plastic adapters, that slide up the inside of the 49mm masts to convert them to 47mm.

There was one mast made, (I have some, still going strong after 10years in the surf) by kilwell that would be just what you need. 70% carbon, 47mm dia. It was called a "matrix 5". Stuart Bell also sold them as a carbon 70. Unfortunately they're a bit hard to come by, Kilwell stopped making masts a few years ago, and there weren't many sold, their smaller dia was just too hard for most people.
holgs
holgs
WA
303 posts
WA, 303 posts
18 Sep 2006 10:24pm
North Rave sails first came out in 1997 and I think were made until maybe 2000. They are not skinny mast specific. I used to have one and the mast sleeve is actually quite wide. Any diameter mast should be able to fit in it. Like pugs says, try to concertina the sail. In a modern sail the mast sleeve or luff pocket of the sail is curved so that the mast needs to bend in order to fit in it. This could be why it might seem that it does not fit. Try sticking the mast tip all the way into the top of the sail with the sail all scrunched up like a piano accordion and then pulling the rest of the sail down towards the bottom of the mast.

I just remembered that the stitching inside the mast sleeve towards the top came undone on my Rave and that this would often make the mast go up a dead end false passage. If it gets stuck near the top try pulling the mast back a bit and fiddling with it until it goes up the correct passage.

Hope this help.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
18 Sep 2006 10:37pm
Hey holgs,
Not saying you're wrong, but do you remember the tip diameter of some of those early fiberglass masts?
Some of them were huge!
holgs
holgs
WA
303 posts
WA, 303 posts
19 Sep 2006 9:55am
You're right decrepit. I used to have a Wild Winds mast that didn't taper much at all towards the top. But the fact that shwell's mast is a 2 piece and 440 cm and not the old standard 465 cm makes me think that it's not a mast from the 1980's.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
19 Sep 2006 1:48pm
That's a good point holgs, must admit I've never seen one of those ancient masts as a 2 piece. Only when they've snapped!!!!
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
19 Sep 2006 4:52pm
quote:
Originally posted by decrepit

There was one mast made, (I have some, still going strong after 10years in the surf) by kilwell that would be just what you need. 70% carbon, 47mm dia. It was called a "matrix 5". Stuart Bell also sold them as a carbon 70. Unfortunately they're a bit hard to come by, Kilwell stopped making masts a few years ago, and there weren't many sold, their smaller dia was just too hard for most people.



I've got 4 Kilwell masts (butts only).
Circa 2000 AD
Never used, never been wet.
Going cheap.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12886 posts
WA, 12886 posts
19 Sep 2006 6:08pm
Yeah, but they're those thick heavy fiberglass things!

Max seemed to enjoy her kite today, she was out for a while.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
19 Sep 2006 7:03pm
quote:
Originally posted by decrepit

Yeah, but they're those thick heavy fiberglass things!

Max seemed to enjoy her kite today, she was out for a while.



Ouch......thick heavy fibreglass things!!!!
Ta Decrep.

Well,
Poley gear certainly has improved in the weight department over the last 6 years or so....
Thanks to carbon fibre spar systems and booms,
not to mention polystyrene cores and epoxy/timber skins.
I always preached every ounce counts in my previous poley-life.
It seems I missed out on the light-weight windsurfing era.

I guess I'll just have to grin and bear it while I suffer my lighter-than-air alien wavekiting gear.
Max says hi.
bubs
bubs
SA
924 posts
SA, 924 posts
19 Sep 2006 8:42pm
I just offloaded a 430 1 piece fibergalss mast to one of me mates who is learning. But i didnt give him a very new sail at all, and he also still uses triangular sails.

he had an old figergalss mast aswell but the top end of it was only a couple mm thinner than the bottom and still wouldnt fit my 10 to 15 year old sail.

If you've got a sail that new i would deffently be getting a new mast that will flex a lot more and will fit the sail better. You can get second hand 30% carbon masts prity cheap now and thats what i use on my 5.8 wave sail. unless you wanted to get a bit more high range mast with more percentage of carbon.

I herd of people trying to get downhaul on a fiberglass mast and it just snapping.

And those plastic adapters, that slide up the inside of the 49mm masts to convert them to 47mm work well because my dad, whos only just got of all his TC gear with a triangular sail and all the old gear, borrowed my old sails and put one of da plastic things on his universal joint so he could use them on his ancient board when he wanted smaller than a 6.5 sail.

hope this helps
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