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New invention in windsurf sail.

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Created by melih 22 days ago, 2 Jun 2019
melih
114 posts
2 Jun 2019 9:04PM
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Dear Windsurfers,
I manufactured my sixth homemade sail. This time I added an additional wing to this sail. Result is one sail two sizes 4.9 m2 or 5.1 m2. Normal sail size is 4.9 m2 however if you assemble the additional wing to this sail, sail becomes 5.1 m2. An additional wing area is 0.2 m2.
Finally, I don't see any important progress in windsurf sail technology since last 20 years except new sail materials. In my new sail I used three extra battens and slots for this wing. To stop the air flow between main sail and additional wing I used CIRT polyester strips. You can see on the photographs black polyester strips. I haven't tested my new sail yet. In July I will test this sail at Aegean Coast I hope this additional wing won't make any surprise to me.
Bye Melih..










































forceten
693 posts
2 Jun 2019 11:14PM
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Very creative. Applaud your results

LeeD
476 posts
2 Jun 2019 11:58PM
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Delta sails.

IndecentExposur
97 posts
3 Jun 2019 4:20AM
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Neat idea. Let us know how it works!

melih
114 posts
3 Jun 2019 5:49AM
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Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
Delta sails.


Dear LeeD,
I appreciate delta sails innovation but the concept is totally different. Thanks for your interest.

Gestalt
QLD, 12081 posts
3 Jun 2019 8:13AM
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whats the theory?

LeeD
476 posts
3 Jun 2019 11:05AM
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Waste of time, 4.9 to 5.1.
Simple tuning covers more range.
Worse, you kill the main sail using it all the time.
Just like Delta sails.

Imax1
VIC, 1943 posts
3 Jun 2019 1:16PM
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How the hell is sailquik going to calculate sail twist on that bad boy
Keep experimenting i say

BSN101
WA, 1599 posts
3 Jun 2019 11:27AM
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it reminds me of my NP RAF Garda sail from 1986/7

jusavina
QLD, 1189 posts
3 Jun 2019 1:48PM
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Do it on the whole length of the leach so you can choose between a high aspect and a low aspect ratio sail.

JakeNN
20 posts
3 Jun 2019 5:20PM
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forum needs improvement .. the green thumbs-up bar is maxed out and my green thumbs-up isn't reflected :(

Taekni
2 posts
3 Jun 2019 9:12PM
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Select to expand quote
melih said..
Dear Windsurfers,
I manufactured my sixth homemade sail. This time I added an additional wing to this sail. Result is one sail two sizes 4.9 m2 or 5.1 m2. Normal sail size is 4.9 m2 however if you assemble the additional wing to this sail, sail becomes 5.1 m2. An additional wing area is 0.2 m2.
Finally, I don't see any important progress in windsurf sail technology since last 20 years except new sail materials. In my new sail I used three extra battens and slots for this wing. To stop the air flow between main sail and additional wing I used CIRT polyester strips. You can see on the photographs black polyester strips. I haven't tested my new sail yet. In July I will test this sail at Aegean Coast I hope this additional wing won't make any surprise to me.
Bye Melih..












































Nice work on making that sail, but I'm not sure how much the additional panel will help.
Because it's attached to the loose part if the leach I don't think it would add much active sail area(won't generate anymore lift) and because it isn't one single piece of sail I'm not sure how well you'll be able to tune the sail, it just looks like adding a panel to a loose leach wont helpfully changethe sails profile.
But please let me know if I'm wrong and congrats again on making a sail.

Gwarn
6 posts
3 Jun 2019 9:27PM
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This is a old design from the 80s
It has a zipper along the foot between the foot panels.

decrepit
WA, 9180 posts
3 Jun 2019 9:33PM
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Does anybody else think that needs more downhaul? Or was that a typical 80s tuning

hoop
WA, 1598 posts
3 Jun 2019 10:26PM
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Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
Waste of time, 4.9 to 5.1.
Simple tuning covers more range.
Worse, you kill the main sail using it all the time.
Just like Delta sails.


LeeD, bugger off with your negativity, your attitude is the enemy of creativity.
Windsurfing needs people to go out and build their ideas.
Well done Melih for building this and be sure to let us know how it goes. Of course it's not going to be perfect 1st go but that's why we prototype things isn't it ?
I think it's a cool idea!

forceten
693 posts
3 Jun 2019 10:27PM
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Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
Waste of time, 4.9 to 5.1.
Simple tuning covers more range.
Worse, you kill the main sail using it all the time.
Just like Delta sails.


It was his time.
You are the person who's glass is always half empty, further you don't realize it can still be filled.

LeeD
476 posts
4 Jun 2019 2:33AM
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Hey, why don't you dreamers buy a MW sail to match your FRP fin, Manta nosed board, and Zboom?

LeeD
476 posts
4 Jun 2019 2:37AM
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Or maybe upgrade your beloved Hypersonic with a reverse pointer fin, extreme mast bend sail, and plastic clamp on harness lines.
Don't forget completing your dream setup with breakaway footstraps and releasable harness bar.

Chris249
187 posts
4 Jun 2019 7:12AM
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Select to expand quote
hoop said..

LeeD said..
Waste of time, 4.9 to 5.1.
Simple tuning covers more range.
Worse, you kill the main sail using it all the time.
Just like Delta sails.



LeeD, bugger off with your negativity, your attitude is the enemy of creativity.
Windsurfing needs people to go out and build their ideas.
Well done Melih for building this and be sure to let us know how it goes. Of course it's not going to be perfect 1st go but that's why we prototype things isn't it ?
I think it's a cool idea!


But development is created by an honest assessment of the physics and other factors involved, as well as by creativity.

Secondly, Melih said " I don't see any important progress in windsurf sail technology since last 20 years". That seems to be VERY negative towards the work of all the sailmakers who have spent two decades working on modern sail designs! Why can Melih be negative but not Lee?

peterowensbabs
NSW, 138 posts
4 Jun 2019 9:30AM
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Select to expand quote
Chris249 said..

hoop said..


LeeD said..
Waste of time, 4.9 to 5.1.
Simple tuning covers more range.
Worse, you kill the main sail using it all the time.
Just like Delta sails.




LeeD, bugger off with your negativity, your attitude is the enemy of creativity.
Windsurfing needs people to go out and build their ideas.
Well done Melih for building this and be sure to let us know how it goes. Of course it's not going to be perfect 1st go but that's why we prototype things isn't it ?
I think it's a cool idea!



But development is created by an honest assessment of the physics and other factors involved, as well as by creativity.

Secondly, Melih said " I don't see any important progress in windsurf sail technology since last 20 years". That seems to be VERY negative towards the work of all the sailmakers who have spent two decades working on modern sail designs! Why can Melih be negative but not Lee?


For me its attitude, Melih may have English as a second language and his comments were not particularly negative more about challenging, but to start your unnecessary and unhelpful comment about something someone has put their heart and soul into (whether a good idea or not , a new idea or not an innovation or not) with a blatant nasty "waste of time" to me is insulting. This sail is beautifully constructed, and as the work of an amateur exemplary. Time will tell if it is a great sail or a dud not one glance at an image and some keyboard warriors nasty negativity.

mr love
VIC, 1756 posts
4 Jun 2019 9:56AM
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Hello Melih,
Well done on giving this a try and I am sure we are all interested in hearing how it goes. I am interested in the placement of the panel, is it designed to be a method of increasing power and drive? If so perhaps it would work better lower on the sail. Regarding your sail shaping I am assuming by looking at the sail that it has very little or no horizontal shaping and is relying purely on luff round, is that correct?
If so for your Version 2 I would encourage you to add some horizontal seam shaping to the bottom half of the sail to give it some pre-shape, it is rigging very flat.
I love people who are willing to have a go and try stuff out, great to see.

ausbinny
18 posts
4 Jun 2019 8:00AM
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Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
Hey, why don't you dreamers buy a MW sail to match your FRP fin, Manta nosed board, and Zboom?


Best booms ever - Sail performs better, much better comfort also looks high tech

It's a shame they didn't go mainstream and slowly faded away

NotWal
QLD, 6917 posts
4 Jun 2019 2:40PM
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Another approach for variable sail might be to make a sail with vents.

Mr Keen
QLD, 65 posts
4 Jun 2019 2:59PM
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Go big and pull your fly down as you run out of room. The idea has merit....

ka43
NSW, 2836 posts
4 Jun 2019 4:46PM
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Hey Leed, why don't you just **** off period!!!

melih
114 posts
5 Jun 2019 4:54AM
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Select to expand quote
jusavina said..
Do it on the whole length of the leach so you can choose between a high aspect and a low aspect ratio sail.


Dear Jusavina,
This is just a test sail. If I do that (your idea) sail becomes complicated project.
Select to expand quote
peterowensbabs said..

Chris249 said..


hoop said..



LeeD said..
Waste of time, 4.9 to 5.1.
Simple tuning covers more range.
Worse, you kill the main sail using it all the time.
Just like Delta sails.





LeeD, bugger off with your negativity, your attitude is the enemy of creativity.
Windsurfing needs people to go out and build their ideas.
Well done Melih for building this and be sure to let us know how it goes. Of course it's not going to be perfect 1st go but that's why we prototype things isn't it ?
I think it's a cool idea!




But development is created by an honest assessment of the physics and other factors involved, as well as by creativity.

Secondly, Melih said " I don't see any important progress in windsurf sail technology since last 20 years". That seems to be VERY negative towards the work of all the sailmakers who have spent two decades working on modern sail designs! Why can Melih be negative but not Lee?



For me its attitude, Melih may have English as a second language and his comments were not particularly negative more about challenging, but to start your unnecessary and unhelpful comment about something someone has put their heart and soul into (whether a good idea or not , a new idea or not an innovation or not) with a blatant nasty "waste of time" to me is insulting. This sail is beautifully constructed, and as the work of an amateur exemplary. Time will tell if it is a great sail or a dud not one glance at an image and some keyboard warriors nasty negativity.


Dear Peterowensbabs,
You are right English is my second language and my English level is intermediate or upper intermediate not more than that. Sometimes I don't understand people's article. My new sail is simple, practical, easy to use ,standart equipment and sturdy. For the result we must wait July.

melih
114 posts
5 Jun 2019 5:13AM
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Select to expand quote
Gestalt said..
whats the theory?


Dear Gestalt,
The theory is very simple, different wind power against to it variable sail area.
Bye Melih...

Chris249
187 posts
5 Jun 2019 6:52AM
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Hi Melih.

I'd like a variable-area sail since I want to do some offshore cruising, but obviously with sails a significant factor is trying to reduce the amount of variation in the vortex wake coming off the leach. A squared outline as in your sail seems likely to create a vortex, like aircraft wing flaps can;



Obviously there are some differences in that the angle of attack in your sail does not change in the same way as with a flap, but obviously the added area will change your span loading in a similar way to the flap. Unlike a plane coming in to landing we are trying to reduce vortex drag when sailing. Considering how much time we spend with twist etc trying to reduce vortex induction, adding on a piece of sail that may well create twin vortexes lower does could be a problem.

Have you considered this issue? Do you know whether it could be solved by rounding off the edges of the additional panel?

jusavina
QLD, 1189 posts
5 Jun 2019 11:41AM
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Select to expand quote
melih said..

jusavina said..
Do it on the whole length of the leach so you can choose between a high aspect and a low aspect ratio sail.



Dear Jusavina,
This is just a test sail. If I do that (your idea) sail becomes complicated project.

peterowensbabs said..


Chris249 said..



hoop said..




LeeD said..
Waste of time, 4.9 to 5.1.
Simple tuning covers more range.
Worse, you kill the main sail using it all the time.
Just like Delta sails.






LeeD, bugger off with your negativity, your attitude is the enemy of creativity.
Windsurfing needs people to go out and build their ideas.
Well done Melih for building this and be sure to let us know how it goes. Of course it's not going to be perfect 1st go but that's why we prototype things isn't it ?
I think it's a cool idea!





But development is created by an honest assessment of the physics and other factors involved, as well as by creativity.

Secondly, Melih said " I don't see any important progress in windsurf sail technology since last 20 years". That seems to be VERY negative towards the work of all the sailmakers who have spent two decades working on modern sail designs! Why can Melih be negative but not Lee?




For me its attitude, Melih may have English as a second language and his comments were not particularly negative more about challenging, but to start your unnecessary and unhelpful comment about something someone has put their heart and soul into (whether a good idea or not , a new idea or not an innovation or not) with a blatant nasty "waste of time" to me is insulting. This sail is beautifully constructed, and as the work of an amateur exemplary. Time will tell if it is a great sail or a dud not one glance at an image and some keyboard warriors nasty negativity.



Dear Peterowensbabs,
You are right English is my second language and my English level is intermediate or upper intermediate not more than that. Sometimes I don't understand people's article. My new sail is simple, practical, easy to use ,standart equipment and sturdy. For the result we must wait July.


That's where the fun begins

Mastbender
1886 posts
6 Jun 2019 7:29AM
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Select to expand quote
NotWal said..
Another approach for variable sail might be to make a sail with vents.



Now you're bumping into my old idea of installing a venetian blind in the middle of the sail, just open or close as needed.
Of course you'd have to modify it a little, but not much.
It could even roll up with the sail!



RAL INN
VIC, 2725 posts
6 Jun 2019 9:32AM
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Just to complicate things.
why not have the extra panel longer and hinge. Then with some line connected that could open or pull in the flap.
Sort of use kite lines and a version of a kitesurfing clicker bar.
so flaps could be added on the fly.

sure a similar thing is done by an adjustable outhaul, but the above may be a good idea for smaller sails.



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"New invention in windsurf sail." started by melih