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Planning in a control safe way

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Created by Dratsas 2 months ago, 11 Sep 2018
Dratsas
46 posts
11 Sep 2018 12:25PM
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Hi there, I am a beginner- intermediate level windsurfer and i noticed that many times I have a difficulty on early planning like my board is always stuck on the sea.
Other times I start planning so fast and with a big speed that I hardly can control my board and remain at that speed.

My board is a carve starboard 145liters (for many already known), my sail size is 7.0 and I weight around 80kilos.

I try first to get my front foot on the footstrap and after to engage on the harness line in order to stay on the safe area.
I have seen many times other guys to keep going steady with harness and only front foot on the footstrap and I am wondering what I am doing wrong and cannot have the full control even if I want to go low or in a high speed.

Mark _australia
WA, 18384 posts
11 Sep 2018 5:45PM
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Its all experience and practice.

Having said that- it is a very big board to be planing on at 80kg.
I am 100kg, and using that board with a 7.5m I would plane in 15kn winds. In 20kn wind, the fin would be generating so much lift the board would lift the windward rail badly and my weight will hardly hold it down.
That's what I suspect you are feeling as "out of control" (maybe) - and if you can easily plane on a 145L and 7m, you will plane in same winds on 110-120L with a little more care with footwork as you move back, but ultimately then feel much more in control when planing.

So I suggest a 120L freeride board in addition to the 145L and work hard at practice.
Or if no money, at least get a fin about 4-6cm shorter and move the straps outboard more.


.

DavidJohn
VIC, 16026 posts
11 Sep 2018 8:09PM
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Get in the back strap and put more pressure on the rear foot than the front and see if that helps.

Subsonic
WA, 1375 posts
11 Sep 2018 6:58PM
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Hooking that back strap at the stage youre at will make planing feel a lot safer.

what kind of conditions are you sailing in? Wind speed? Sea state? Is it choppy or flat?

Dratsas
46 posts
11 Sep 2018 10:28PM
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Thanks you all for you guidances!

Yes Mark since I will not stay here for much more I wouldnot like to give more money for a board, so I will try to use a shorter fin at first, but I thought with a longer one you planning faster, isn't it?
To move footstraps more out will help me to have a better cotrol when i am already planning, correct?

I donot want to start by putting first the back leg into the footstrap, maybe it will be difficult to change later on a not so good habit, my opinion! For many is a good first technic.
Most of times not so strong wind.
Between 7 to 15 knts.
At first I was trying in a wave condition sea but after a SMALL repair ( Mark knows very well) I try in another area at a river shore where the waters are flat!

Practice is the best way also at shore but I want to know that I am practising in the right way!

Paducah
191 posts
11 Sep 2018 11:03PM
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If you aren't already, make sure that you are putting pressure down on the harness when you are hooked in even if you are letting off the power. That pressure, mast base pressure (MBP), is essential for balancing the forces on the board. It keeps the board flat and from bouncing around. When people are starting off and get over powered, they let out the sail and take the pressure off the harness. Now all your weight is further back on the board and it wants to bounce around.

MBP also helps you get planing in lighter air by keeping the board flat.

In lighter air, you can start off in the harness and front strap and place the back foot in front of the back straps towards the middle of the board. Keep the front leg straight to drive the board. That front foot and mast base pressure will keep things much steadier. I'm smaller than you and wouldn't hesitate to take a board that size out.

Subsonic
WA, 1375 posts
11 Sep 2018 11:21PM
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Select to expand quote
Dratsas said..
Thanks you all for you guidances!

Yes Mark since I will not stay here for much more I wouldnot like to give more money for a board, so I will try to use a shorter fin at first, but I thought with a longer one you planning faster, isn't it?
To move footstraps more out will help me to have a better cotrol when i am already planning, correct?

I donot want to start by putting first the back leg into the footstrap, maybe it will be difficult to change later on a not so good habit, my opinion! For many is a good first technic.
Most of times not so strong wind.
Between 7 to 15 knts.
At first I was trying in a wave condition sea but after a SMALL repair ( Mark knows very well) I try in another area at a river shore where the waters are flat!

Practice is the best way also at shore but I want to know that I am practising in the right way!


Hey again Dratsas

the aim isn't hook the back strap first, it's to hook into both of them. Front footstrap first (as you are doing) then back footstrap.

When i was learning to hook the back strap i aimed to position my back foot touching the front of the back strap, so i could feel it was right next to it, then i knew i could get my foot into it in the next move. It's one of the tricky moves to master at the start because you have to be able to get it in there without looking. But when youve got both your feet in the straps you'll feel much more connected and in control of the board when planing.

leave the footstraps inboard for the time being, eventually moving them out will give you even better board control, but at this stage having them inboard will make life easier whilst learning to hook into them.

Certainly try the smaller fin as Mark said. Sounds like youve found some better conditions to learn in.

RumChaser
TAS, 600 posts
12 Sep 2018 8:58AM
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I don't think you should be having too many problems with going too fast in 15 knots of wind. What you are experiencing is probably just the feeling of planing. At first you do feel out of control but soon you will come to enjoy the feeling. When I was learning I had trouble with getting into the back strap. That is normal. What I did was put my back foot back in a comfortable position and towards the centre of the board until I was comfortable with being on the plane. Then it was just a matter of moving the foot out towards the strap and eventually just slipping it in.

Imax1
VIC, 1514 posts
12 Sep 2018 9:15AM
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Once in the back strap it will all make sense. Push toes down.

westozwind
WA, 1223 posts
12 Sep 2018 9:04AM
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Welcome to the (short lived) catapult zone. The progression from non planing to planing windsurfing is exciting. The tips above are great. You will soon be out the other side :)

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6318 posts
12 Sep 2018 11:38AM
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If you don't already , make sure your front foot points forward rather than sideways..That will help prevent catapults or at least let you brace against the pull.

Mark _australia
WA, 18384 posts
13 Sep 2018 4:38PM
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Folks I think some people read incorrectly- he was saying other people planing with back foot out so he is wondering why he has seemingly less control with both in.... ??

Subsonic
WA, 1375 posts
13 Sep 2018 5:10PM
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Mark _australia said..
Folks I think some people read incorrectly- he was saying other people planing with back foot out so he is wondering why he has seemingly less control with both in.... ??



I re-read it another 5 times, im still comprehending it as he's getting his front foot in/(on)? the front footstrap, hooking the harness and leaving the rear foot out, and is wondering why he's having a hard time doing it, while others are doing it with ease....

Mark _australia
WA, 18384 posts
13 Sep 2018 5:52PM
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he is both in, or about to go back in just after front, and wonders why others can sail with back for out for ages,....?


I dunno

Subsonic
WA, 1375 posts
13 Sep 2018 6:02PM
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Mark _australia said..
he is both in, or about to go back in just after front, and wonders why others can sail with back for out for ages,....?


I dunno


In all honesty, the more i read it the less sense it makes...

Mark _australia
WA, 18384 posts
13 Sep 2018 6:04PM
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Hey I suck at freeride so y'all go for it.


Dratsas
46 posts
14 Sep 2018 6:44AM
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Good morning to all !
Thanks for your replies.

About the guys I said that they keep going windsurfing with only the front foot into the foot-strap it is on the process of learning; for a smooth passage from beginner to intermediate. However, even if they do not go very fast they look like they have the control.

Imax1
VIC, 1514 posts
14 Sep 2018 9:04AM
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Need back foot in for proper control .

tryharder
SA, 98 posts
14 Sep 2018 9:50AM
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If conditions are a bit light with lots of lulls I sometime leave back foot out and sometimes to really push upwind I leave it out.
But when powered up and going so much easier with both feet in and it feels much safer.
I found the same as you when learning that sometimes you just end up going way to quick to soon to be able to get the back foot in and keep things under control, my fix for that was as soon as I got planning I would turn into the wind to slow things down while I got the back foot in then bear of again. After a while I just got better/quicker at getting both feet in I could skip the turning in to the wind bit.

also found it easy/safer to get both feet in before hooking in but that took a bit more arm strength.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6318 posts
14 Sep 2018 1:06PM
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Dratsas said..
Good morning to all !
Thanks for your replies.

About the guys I said that they keep going windsurfing with only the front foot into the foot-strap it is on the process of learning; for a smooth passage from beginner to intermediate. However, even if they do not go very fast they look like they have the control.


If the winds light sometimes it's better to have the back foot out but in front of the rear strap and still pressuring the fin..Too uncomfortable with both in if you're not powered up enough..

Dratsas
46 posts
14 Sep 2018 11:49AM
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Sorry my message at the morning time wasn't completed due to my hurry to go to the job.

Of curse I don't mean planning with only the first foot in strap but I want to have this option so to control the board better.

I will agree with you tryharder about foot strap first, then the hardness.

In General, I start planning much faster when I stand close to the mast foot ( reasonable since I keep the board flat and the ring vertical I suppose).
The time I try to put my front foot in the footstrap and engage in the hardness I slow down and turn upwind. The think is that I try too hard to keep the ring forward in order to go downwind and also I keep my back foot very close to the front footstrap to keep the board flat.
After that, When I get out of the footstrap and the harness and move a little forward i start increase speed again.

And I am wondering is that happening because of low wind or due to a wrong handle from my site?
Some guys told me to push the mast foot by pushing down boom with my front hand, this would help the board to stay flat.

Anyway, I will keep practicing, change the long fin with a shorter, keep toes forward pushing down the board at the same time.


When I engage the harness line I should move my boby lower down or backwards on the board rail site?

Dratsas
46 posts
14 Sep 2018 12:04PM
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RumChaser said..
I don't think you should be having too many problems with going too fast in 15 knots of wind. What you are experiencing is probably just the feeling of planing. At first you do feel out of control but soon you will come to enjoy the feeling. When I was learning I had trouble with getting into the back strap. That is normal. What I did was put my back foot back in a comfortable position and towards the centre of the board until I was comfortable with being on the plane. Then it was just a matter of moving the foot out towards the strap and eventually just slipping it in.


Actually my difficulty for now is to keep my speed when I go bit backward in order to put my front foot in the foot strap and engage in the harness.

Mark _australia
WA, 18384 posts
14 Sep 2018 12:08PM
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If it turns upwind when doing for the front strap, and you do have your weight in the harness you are probably not going fast enough, so you are sinking the upwind rail when going for the strap.

Put your feet in the straps because you have to, not just because you think its a good thing to do.
What I mean is, get the board going fast and planing then move back slowly. Get in the straps because you have to (for control as you are going fast).

Manuel7
209 posts
14 Sep 2018 6:15PM
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I did get that stage too. My board was too fast. Then I got a bic techno, very friendly. It was a bit slow but stable and gave me time to adjust. Setting straps inboard may help initially but on that board it was so easy that I didn't have issues.

One of the main problems at first is that we need more wind to get going. More volume helps with that and brings some stability too.

One may keep back foot out but only upwind and not too choppy. To get in the straps, we need to stiffen our upper body a bit connecting through the harness. I tend to keep a slight bend in my front arm as safety, move my back hand back a little for more subtle power dialing. Underpowered we need to bear off a bit, careful with nasty gust there!

Then, I drive as much of the sail power through my front leg extending it to push the board off forward and downwind maybe a bit on my toes pointing to keep the hull flat to sightly exposed to the wind. That's where a good sized fin helps.

In the end we want to have a well balanced kit so no need to exaggerate kit tuning so much but it can help tweaking a few things.

Have you looked at "getting going" videos?

Subsonic
WA, 1375 posts
14 Sep 2018 10:18PM
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Mark _australia said..
If it turns upwind when doing for the front strap, and you do have your weight in the harness you are probably not going fast enough, so you are sinking the upwind rail when going for the strap.

Put your feet in the straps because you have to, not just because you think its a good thing to do.
What I mean is, get the board going fast and planing then move back slowly. Get in the straps because you have to (for control as you are going fast).



This^^^

I know it feels safer not hooking the strap/s but the advice you are getting re hooking the straps is coming at you because we've all been through what you are now going through. It really will make a difference to your sailing.

being able to plane around without hooking into straps isn't really a skill. It really is asking for an injury causing catapault. Even advanced sailors won't be caught doing it too often. Trust me 3 months of not being able to laugh/sneeze/climb into your van without pain ain't worth delaying learning to hook the straps.

boardsurfr
684 posts
15 Sep 2018 12:20AM
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Here's a little exercise for you that may help: in conditions where you got just a little less wind than you need for planing, try to get into both straps, and then sail in a straight line for a minute or so. To do so, you will need to really hang down on the boom, so that your weight gets transferred into the mast foot. You'll probably round up a few times initially, so hang down more, push on the toes, and try to keep your weight forward.

You can learn this in an hour or less, and it can help with getting into the straps. My wife learned to use the back strap this way on a light-wind day (~10-12 mph) during a windsurfing clinic, and was able to use both straps right away the next time it was windy. The skill of transferring your weight onto the mast foot that you learn is key to keeping a board controlled when planing. I'm 90 kg and can do this on a 110 l board (not bragging, just illustrating that it can be done; it's easier on bigger boards!).

Imax1
VIC, 1514 posts
15 Sep 2018 6:54AM
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boardsurfr said..
Here's a little exercise for you that may help: in conditions where you got just a little less wind than you need for planing, try to get into both straps, and then sail in a straight line for a minute or so. To do so, you will need to really hang down on the boom, so that your weight gets transferred into the mast foot. You'll probably round up a few times initially, so hang down more, push on the toes, and try to keep your weight forward.

You can learn this in an hour or less, and it can help with getting into the straps. My wife learned to use the back strap this way on a light-wind day (~10-12 mph) during a windsurfing clinic, and was able to use both straps right away the next time it was windy. The skill of transferring your weight onto the mast foot that you learn is key to keeping a board controlled when planing. I'm 90 kg and can do this on a 110 l board (not bragging, just illustrating that it can be done; it's easier on bigger boards!).


Learning this skill will allow you to get into the back strap first .If I'm on , off planing I have the back foot in and the front foot at the mast .No catapult method .

Dratsas
46 posts
15 Sep 2018 11:19AM
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Mark _australia said..
If it turns upwind when doing for the front strap, and you do have your weight in the harness you are probably not going fast enough, so you are sinking the upwind rail when going for the strap.

Put your feet in the straps because you have to, not just because you think its a good thing to do.
What I mean is, get the board going fast and planing then move back slowly. Get in the straps because you have to (for control as you are going fast).


Good morning Mark.
Yes this is what is happening.

I understand what you mean. I try to avoid use the harness before at least put my front foot in the foot-strap.
Anyway, even when I engage the harness at first I start to slow down comparing to use only my hands.

I have the filling that when I engage the harness I pull the ring some backward that's why I slow down since it is not vertical.
I do not want to say about the speed wind since if I can planning without harness and foot-straps I suppose that I could do it also at the same wind condition maybe harder but it would be possible. Thus, wind condition could help me only for the transition to planning condition.

Once I made a test by increasing the length of the harness lines so to keep the ring more vertical when engage the harness. It looked like it worked however when I was starting planning the lines where quite long and I was actually keeping the rig by my hand.

I had also tried to transfer the foot-straps near to the center line of the board so not to push to much the upwind rail when I pose my front leg in the foot-strap. This worked too I suppose, but I had another problem later; When I was trying to make Tack I was stepping on the foot-straps and it was really annoyance.

I remembered something else. Everyone says that you must be in balance when you are engage in the harness and by leaving your hand the ring must stay steady. I agree but when you can check this; when you are in which position? Before you put your foots in the foot-straps? When you have put only your front foot in the foot-strap? Or only when you are in a regular planning position? I am asking that because I was trying to do this kind of test when I was just engaged and the ring was not steady.

Dratsas
46 posts
15 Sep 2018 12:35PM
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boardsurfr said..
Here's a little exercise for you that may help: in conditions where you got just a little less wind than you need for planing, try to get into both straps, and then sail in a straight line for a minute or so. To do so, you will need to really hang down on the boom, so that your weight gets transferred into the mast foot. You'll probably round up a few times initially, so hang down more, push on the toes, and try to keep your weight forward.

You can learn this in an hour or less, and it can help with getting into the straps. My wife learned to use the back strap this way on a light-wind day (~10-12 mph) during a windsurfing clinic, and was able to use both straps right away the next time it was windy. The skill of transferring your weight onto the mast foot that you learn is key to keeping a board controlled when planing. I'm 90 kg and can do this on a 110 l board (not bragging, just illustrating that it can be done; it's easier on bigger boards!).


I have done this maybe not so properly. I lost the point of hanging down my body on the boom for transferring my weight forward. I ll try this too next time.

Dratsas
46 posts
15 Sep 2018 12:36PM
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Manuel7 said..
I did get that stage too. My board was too fast. Then I got a bic techno, very friendly. It was a bit slow but stable and gave me time to adjust. Setting straps inboard may help initially but on that board it was so easy that I didn't have issues.

One of the main problems at first is that we need more wind to get going. More volume helps with that and brings some stability too.

One may keep back foot out but only upwind and not too choppy. To get in the straps, we need to stiffen our upper body a bit connecting through the harness. I tend to keep a slight bend in my front arm as safety, move my back hand back a little for more subtle power dialing. Underpowered we need to bear off a bit, careful with nasty gust there!

Then, I drive as much of the sail power through my front leg extending it to push the board off forward and downwind maybe a bit on my toes pointing to keep the hull flat to sightly exposed to the wind. That's where a good sized fin helps.

In the end we want to have a well balanced kit so no need to exaggerate kit tuning so much but it can help tweaking a few things.

Have you looked at "getting going" videos?


Getting going videos?
Maybe maybe not.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6318 posts
15 Sep 2018 2:58PM
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Select to expand quote
Dratsas said..
Sorry my message at the morning time wasn't completed due to my hurry to go to the job.

Of curse I don't mean planning with only the first foot in strap but I want to have this option so to control the board better.

I will agree with you tryharder about foot strap first, then the hardness.

In General, I start planning much faster when I stand close to the mast foot ( reasonable since I keep the board flat and the ring vertical I suppose).
The time I try to put my front foot in the footstrap and engage in the hardness I slow down and turn upwind. The think is that I try too hard to keep the ring forward in order to go downwind and also I keep my back foot very close to the front footstrap to keep the board flat.
After that, When I get out of the footstrap and the harness and move a little forward i start increase speed again.

And I am wondering is that happening because of low wind or due to a wrong handle from my site?
Some guys told me to push the mast foot by pushing down boom with my front hand, this would help the board to stay flat.

Anyway, I will keep practicing, change the long fin with a shorter, keep toes forward pushing down the board at the same time.


When I engage the harness line I should move my boby lower down or backwards on the board rail site?



Sounds like there isn't enough wind to get going or it's pretty marginal..If there is enough wind but only just enough to get going, that's when I get in the front strap only with my rear foot in front of the rear strap where I can still pressure the fin..
Mind you I'm not the best early planing person around..



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"Planning in a control safe way" started by Dratsas