What's the question nebs Why use a light weight board OR Why use a board with small volume+width+length

Anyway, I prefer to use a board with about five litres less volume than my tubby body weight (assuming there is wind)... This is beacuse it does not bounce as much in chop

I don't think reducing the weight of big boards will make them perform like the smaller sizes.

I think it's more about bottom shape and area, rather than volume.
I really don't like having to swim in from out the back so my smallest highwind board still just floats me. It's fairly thick, but has good vee and more rocker than the low wind boards, so it turns on a dime,
(not neccessarily due to thinner rails, my 3 boards have very similar rails) and handles chop very well.

You're right that a light big board will handle more like a smaller board, than a heavy big board, but still wont be the same.

weight's effect on manuverability isn't linear, hardly has any effect at the back of the board but has a huge effect at the front, (radial inertia).
Also be careful about where you put riders weight in any equation, this isn't "dead" weight, it's part of the power and turning/control system.

Agreed it is all confusing, 2 boards with the same volume can be totaly different, one might be a light wind board for a small person the other could be a high wind board for a heavy person, in other words there's a lot more to board design than volume!!!!! Volume only effects what's happening before you start to plane, it's bottom shape/area that effects what happens when planning, weight of course does affect the way a board behaves, but I don't think it's the main reason for going smaller, I think that's more surface area.

Lets now talk about short wide boards these are board on there own.
example I had a old slalom board 280X55 wide and 40cm fin planes in about 11-12 knots with 7.0.
soon as the wind pick up a little 15 knots the board starts to rail up and hard to control.
Now I own a wide style board (scross) 240X70 wide same fin and sail, planes a little earlier but you can hold the board up to 20 Knots.
What a huge difference, the 70 wide board has more control than the 55 wide board its all about the extra leverage the wide boards have.
Its great stuff. So in the end more volume and width dosnt mean less control.Ive been converted.
Are you really confused now Nebbian.
ta Vando

true vando, the wide boards are shorter in length so they are controllable at high speed, (less nose) plus the extra width assists the early planing. i'm a convert too.

narrow board are still longer.

as decrepit said area is important. surface area affects lift too. the distibution of the volume is where the major change has been with modern wide shapes.

anyone want to give me a starboard aero 127 for a uear to test my theories?
pugwash, are your boards over 240cm in length? surface area of a narrow long board and wide short board can be the same.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gestalt

pugwash, are your boards over 240cm in length? surface area of a narrow long board and wide short board can be the same.

---

Yep. My 115 is around 250cm, the other 2 around 270cm, they don't get wet much these days I use a few different fins on my 115l, from 36 to 42cm - same problem with all - that said, most of the time it is controllable - just becomes tricky in chop around knee high and bigger.

Decrep, when you say planing area, do you mean the wetted bit of the board while on the plane

I thought 250 was about average for a newish 68 wide freeride/freerace board... damn, out of date already - and it is an 06 model

Nebbian,

For me the chop is a big factor. My 105 Tabou X-Rocket (61cm x 245cm) is impossible for my small 65kg when the chop gets up on Botany Bay. I think I cover more distance in the vertical plane than the horizontal one !!

That is why I just bought a 2nd hand 85 litre Freestyle wave. It is 57cm wide, and I am hoping will be much better for me above 25 knts. Although judging by others responses, I could probably do better with something around 75 litres. I'll consider that next year when I have improved my water-starting and gybing a little more.

BTW, how is you're gybing and water-starting coming on? I am now comfortably controlling my carve, but still need to get the sail flip right. I think I'm not placing feet quite right after stepping around. So far as water-starting, I am now flying the sail no problem, but still often get myself thrown forward. Need a bit more control in the 'controlled catapult'.

Regards,
Harrow.

fins are 36cm Tectonics goldwing (behaves more like a 34cm fin) and a 42 cm kinetic turbo slalom (looks like a goldwing copy): http://www.kineticsports.com/fins.htm . My feeling is the 42 is more powerful. They seem to work pretty well with 6.8 and 8.1. 42 may be a touch on the large side.

I am pretty happy with mast foot position (I have done a fair bit of experimentation) for where the board rides when planing and comfort when sailing...

Railing starts to happen at around 20 knots and in larger chop (board wants to be in sky)... No problems when the water is flat...

...particularly coz he wearing it over his wetsuit

Thanks for all the responses. So the consensus is that a smaller board doesn't bounce as much in chop? I'll have to try it. I'm still a bit wary of trying a board with only 4 litres more flotation than my weight, chances are I'll be up to my ankles most of the time which means that I don't get the stability that comes from rails that are slightly out of the water. There's only one way to learn though, right?

quote:

---

BTW, how is you're gybing and water-starting coming on? I am now comfortably controlling my carve, but still need to get the sail flip right. I think I'm not placing feet quite right after stepping around. So far as water-starting, I am now flying the sail no problem, but still often get myself thrown forward. Need a bit more control in the 'controlled catapult'.

---

Hi Harrow,
Waterstarting is no problem at all for me now, in fact I haven't been catapulted for at least a month (4 sessions). The thing that really helped me was putting my rear foot further back on the board (both waterstarting and sailing), this wider stance means you've got more room for your center of gravity to shift without it going outside your feet.

As for gybing... I've gotten light wind gybes down pat, I put my weight back, sheet in and push the sail forwards, swap feet, sail out clew first then flip the sail no probs. Practicing in light wind with a small sail helps here.
In high winds it's a different story, I get the carve OK but usually end up flipping the sail too late which ends in a big splash. Last session I was watching the other guys closely and they seemed to keep the sail a lot more open (sheeted out) than I did, so I went out and tried it, and did a picture perfect gybe!!! It felt completely right as I was doing it, everything just flowed. I couldn't repeat it though, but every gybe is getting further along before things go pear shaped. My problem is not getting the weight forward enough, or not swapping feet soon enough.
Practice in light winds, don't be afraid to hold the sail completely sheeted out as you slowly ease it around to the correct side, and if it starts to fall then make a grab for the uphaul rope. About 40% of my gybes end up with me still having dry hair but uphauling on the new side.
Good luck, let us know how you get on

best news i've heard all year...

pass me the pork pies

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pugwash



Decrep, when you say planing area, do you mean the wetted bit of the board while on the plane

---

Guess that's what I mean, although in chop that's varying all the time, more area as you hit chop, less as you leave, in this case it's the maximum area, when you hit the chop that's the problem.
Part of my problem with my bigest board is the rear strap position, it's set up as a wave board with just the one strap in the center, gets a bit hard to control in higher winds.

Not sure about your mast track thing, I move mine back for wave riding (more maneuverable) and move it forward for blasting. (easier to rake the mast back and close the gap, I only have wave sails). And I'm not on modern short wide boards.

Moving the mast foot back reduces the wetted area and in effect loads up the fin more- your back leg will especially notice if it is too far back. Reducing the wetted area is all good in medium winds but once the wind and chop get up a bit you need to move the track further forward to create some control (to go fast you first need control). Take it in 2cm increments, if it is too far forward you should first feel the board a bit sticky then the nose will start to ride a little low. In most boards now you shouldnt nose dive from this but it will make it hard when as you go through the chop it drives lots of the entry rocker into the water and slows you up quick.

Seems to be two different arguments here:

1) Short (but wide) boards are easier to control;
2) Skinny boards are smoother at high speed and in chop;

Are these contradictory?

I guess that's why the boards just get smaller and smaller. If you want short and skinny, then you end up with small volume. That's where perhaps Decrepit's view regarding small surface area but larger volume to float you home plays a part. Is there a third category of board to get the best of everything - Short, skinny, but thick (for higher volume)?

My Tabou is a bit like this, being shorter and skinnier than most boards of the same volume. But since it sits so high on the water, the non-slip is playing havoc with the foot and tack of my sails. Guess it wouldn't be so much of a problem if I didn't drop them in the water so often.

Nebbian, took my new 84 litre out on Monday. Must say, it was a great feeling having so much less board under my feet. I can only imagine a sub-70 litre board would be a real buzz with enough wind - you would feel like you were walking on water. Not sure what you're riding at the moment, but give the smaller volume a go when you get the chance. Regards, Harrow.